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A Plea for Rationale in the System of Natural Consequences
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#521 - 2012-05-30 04:18:39 UTC
Devore Sekk wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Rokh = Stainless Steel Spatula
Hulk = Solid Gold Spatula

Miners, through years of nobody bothering them, have adjusted their baseline from what it was before Barges were released. They've started to view the Solid Gold Spatula as the only thing that can flip burgers.


See, it's a matter of expectations.

There are Level 4 mission runners who use a Drake, which you might consider the Cardboard Spatula. There is a whole spectrum of Level 4 capable ships; each higher one comes with the expectation you are able to fit and pilot it appropriately so as not to lose your investment. Each level of mission ship means you can run missions more efficiently.

If you don't want to risk losing a 3B isk mission runner or do not know how to protect it properly, you fly something cheaper, and accept the lesser lever of income and efficiency.

However, this is not the case with mining. Every miner seems to be of the opinion that you can only mine in a Hulk. When in fact there is also and ENTIRE spectrum of mining ships. Each step in the ladder means you are able to mine more efficiently, but each step on the ladder also means you are expected to fit and pilot your ship appropriately so as to avoid losing it.

If you don't want to risk losing a 400M isk mining ship or do not know how to protect it properly, you fly something cheaper and accept lesser mining efficie.... err, sorry, apparently you come crying to the forums.

Carebear logic.

Wait, Rokhs can MINE?

But their yield ... so far below a Hulk. And the cycle time, you can't AFK, is this TRUE mining?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#522 - 2012-05-30 04:35:20 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Wait, Rokhs can MINE?

But their yield ... so far below a Hulk. And the cycle time, you can't AFK, is this TRUE mining?



I know, right. ~80%, aka a B is such a terrible thing to get.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Peta Michalek
Doomheim
#523 - 2012-05-30 05:02:06 UTC
This is an interesting thread(well the OP is; almost all responses are twats being twats as usual in Gen). Indeed CCP mentions in their own TOS that griefing is forbidden and indeed one could look at the entire hulkageddon as a big griefing campaign. Yes, the ultimate goal of it is to make the rich goons even richer, but 99% of participants don't even realize this and do it, as they themselves admit, "for the tears" because "you mad" and "HTFU" and other tired internet catch-it-all lingo.

Technically speaking, I think CCP could be sued for not upholding their side of the agreement. No I'm not going to do it(none of this, hulkageddon or not, affects my playstyle in any way) but hey, I wouldn't get it past Mr. I Drive A Saab. And yes, going to court over internet spaceship sounds hilariously improbable but this is EVE Online, the game of firsts, is it not? Didn't we have russians cutting off an enemy corp's leader power IRL over internet spaceships before?

Whatever the result, a court case would have one good effect: CPP would finally have to get their heads out of sand and decide what do they want to do with hisec - whether to keep it as safe playground and an alternate playstyle within the same universe, or to bring it back in line with rest of the game(un-buff CONCORD).

Because the current, third option is the worst of them all.
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
#524 - 2012-05-30 05:11:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ispia Jaydrath
Peta Michalek wrote:
This is an interesting thread(well the OP is; almost all responses are twats being twats as usual in Gen). Indeed CCP mentions in their own TOS that griefing is forbidden and indeed one could look at the entire hulkageddon as a big griefing campaign.


You didn't read the thread.

Quote:
Technically speaking, I think CCP could be sued for not upholding their side of the agreement.


Fun fact: After claiming that you are rich and successful in real life, the thing second most likely to get you mocked on the internet is roleplaying a lawyer (or psychologist).

Get back in your hole.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#525 - 2012-05-30 05:16:28 UTC
Peta Michalek wrote:
Whatever the result, a court case would have one good effect: CPP would finally have to get their heads out of sand and decide what do they want to do with hisec - whether to keep it as safe playground and an alternate playstyle within the same universe, or to bring it back in line with rest of the game(un-buff CONCORD).


I love love love posts like this because they infer that CCP is somehow on the fence about what they want to do with hisec.

Guess what? THEY DO KNOW.

CONCORD is an imperfect protection ON PURPOSE. CCP tweaks with their abilities and response times, but notice how the response times have never become zero? That'd be an easy way to actually make hisec safe!

Suicide ganking has recieved nerfs - CONCORD response times have changed, insurance doesn't pay out. Yet, suicide ships can still target and fire on whoever they want in hisec, and if they can kill it before CONCORD responds, the kill stands! I wonder why that is?

Now ask yourself - are these just two absolutely monolithic oversights in CCP's attempt to make hisec 100% safe? Or could it maybe be that THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO BE SAFE?

Nah, can't be! They're just confused, is all!

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Peta Michalek
Doomheim
#526 - 2012-05-30 05:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Peta Michalek
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:

You didn't read the thread.


Considering you just confused me with the OP, I think you didn't read the thread. Or am I just a sockpuppet in your mind? Welp, twats.

@Snow Axe(multiquote, why would a forum software need it): Nice try, but why was CONCORD buffed in the first place? Maybe it's because CCP didn't think players would be so willing as to sacrifice their ship just to get a kill? In the old system, CONCORD wasn't cutting it, so they applied the laziest possible solution - as they tend to do - and simply made it ridiculously powerful and warp in almost instantly. The way around(suicidegank) was found quickly but was never really an issue until recent crusade of corpsec.

So to summarize: If hisec was never meant to be safe, why was CONCORD buffed so much it made any suspension of disbelief of it crack at the seams? The non-safe hisec was non-safe before with old CONCORD.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#527 - 2012-05-30 06:06:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Peta Michalek wrote:
@Snow Axe(multiquote, why would a forum software need it): Nice try, but why was CONCORD buffed in the first place? Maybe it's because CCP didn't think players would be so willing as to sacrifice their ship just to get a kill? In the old system, CONCORD wasn't cutting it, so they applied the laziest possible solution - as they tend to do - and simply made it ridiculously powerful and warp in almost instantly. The way around(suicidegank) was found quickly but was never really an issue until recent crusade of corpsec.

So to summarize: If hisec was never meant to be safe, why was CONCORD buffed so much it made any suspension of disbelief of it crack at the seams? The non-safe hisec was non-safe before with old CONCORD.


Buffing CONCORD is a balance thing. Maybe they wanted to make ganking harder than it was? Either way, they clearly didn't want it gone, as there are far, far easier ways to do it than a buff that still doesn't accomplish that. Also, the laziest solution would have been to buff CONCORD and give them a 0 second response time, rather than one that scales depending on security level - hell, the scaling itself is proof that CONCORD is functioning more-or-less as intended, as an imperfect guard mechanism.

Remember now, this is the FIFTH Hulkageddon. The FIFTH ONE. There's been so many windows for CCP to outright ban ganking had they actually been interested in doing it, and yet time and time again, they haven't. Sure, they've played with the mechanics of ganking itself, but at no point did they render it not possible, despite that being the simpler of the two things to do. The only conclusion to draw from that is that they have no problem with ganking existing. Well, that or you believe they're functionally ********, in which case trying to get them to see reason is a fool's errand.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Francisco Bizzaro
#528 - 2012-05-30 06:15:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Francisco Bizzaro
Oddball Six wrote:
2) Your narrow view is that anyone interested in avoiding combat should be relegated to a separate instance so as not to befoul your intended mode of gameplay. The simple fact is that the carebear professions have an integral place in the primary environment of play. They have been a player base which is nutured in some measure by the expectations that the game mechanics will be effective in promoting and inhibiting certain types of play.

When the metagaming encourages gamers en masse to ignore the controls which establish those modes of play, the impact has to be considered by CCP for its effect on real life subscription demographics.

What does it do to the player experience for certain players? Does a certain threshold of meta-gaming rise to the level of griefing or circumvention of the intended controls? How do you define that threshold? Is it based on the organization to accept ganking individually on a large scale? On the number of times someone is involved in a gank? On the strategies one uses to scout and get a gank in place? Something else?

How is anyone inhibiting your type of play? Mining is a perfectly viable profession for a casual. But if you are casual, you will probably not be able to do it at the highest level, that is in a max-yield hulk. For that, you need to be paying a bit of attention to your environment, which I think is not too much to ask of a game.

You can play this game as casual as you like, while watching TV, and earn an respectable income which will significantly more than cover your losses. It's maybe not the absolute best income - but is the best income really what you deserve if you are just going along for the ride?

Hulkageddon, Burn Jita, whatever metagaming you like to name, are not preventing any play style. Because while "casual mining" is a play style, flying a max-yield untanked hulk is not.
Francisco Bizzaro
#529 - 2012-05-30 06:21:09 UTC
Oddball Six wrote:
"Casual Gamers" and "Carebears" (there is probably some overlap, but they are two separate player contingents as you can easily be one without being the other) make up a segment of game subscription beyond mine personally. They contribute real dollars to the real CCP that enables real development work and investment in products like the upcoming dust.

You seem to be keen on the consequences for CCP's bottom line as a reason to take you seriously, an argument which we see increasingly on these forums.

At this point I'd like to suggest a corollary to Malcanis' law: "Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit CCP's income" is invariably for the purpose of improving the player's income."
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#530 - 2012-05-30 06:58:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
RubyPorto wrote:


Rokh = Stainless Steel Spatula
Hulk = Solid Gold Spatula

Miners, through years of nobody bothering them, have adjusted their baseline from what it was before Barges were released. They've started to view the Solid Gold Spatula as the only thing that can flip burgers.


Miners, incredibly enough, adapted from using a combat ship to a mining ship.
This is clearly preposterous and needs to be dealt with.


RubyPorto wrote:


How do you know GSF messes with the Tech market? Is it because they've been very public about doing exactly that? If it's public knowledge because the cartel announced it in a press release, you look a little silly when you make it sound like super sekrit spy knowledge.

Minerals are hard to hold in a Cartel. Tech is easy to hold in a Cartel. Once someone holds a Tech Cartel, it makes perfect sense to fund a campaign to increase Tech demand. There is one industry whose Tech demand is massive when that industry is disrupted. That's mining.

Besides that, Tengu's are blitz boats. If they're hanging out to loot/salvage the field, they're doing it wrong.


"Knowing for certain" does not imply in any way it's exclusive knowledge.
It implies it's true.
It implies many in GD don't follow MD and might not know about this.


RubyPorto wrote:

2 Hulks, 3x Webs and 2 MLUIIs each. Gank proof hulks if you're looking at your screen at all.

Mine aligned. If that's hard, figure out a way to make it easier.


Keep 5-6 Hulks aligned and moreover have the corp op Orca also stay in range.
Seems vastly not worth the effort. Had it been a 100M per hour *group* work like Incursions then it'd be worth. But no, it does not yield 100M per hour, not even in 0.0. All of this despite effective mining risk > Incursion risk.
I don't recall the 8500 incursion pimpboats kill mails in a month.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#531 - 2012-05-30 06:59:41 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

2 Hulks, 3x Webs and 2 MLUIIs each. Gank proof hulks if you're looking at your screen at all.

Mine aligned. If that's hard, figure out a way to make it easier.

Keep 5-6 Hulks aligned and moreover have the corp op Orca also stay in range.
Seems vastly not worth the effort. Had it been a 100M per hour *group* work like Incursion then it'd be worth. But no, it does not yield 100M per hour, not even in 0.0.

To the incursions, then !

Or are L4s all the rage now?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#532 - 2012-05-30 07:02:38 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

2 Hulks, 3x Webs and 2 MLUIIs each. Gank proof hulks if you're looking at your screen at all.

Mine aligned. If that's hard, figure out a way to make it easier.

Keep 5-6 Hulks aligned and moreover have the corp op Orca also stay in range.
Seems vastly not worth the effort. Had it been a 100M per hour *group* work like Incursion then it'd be worth. But no, it does not yield 100M per hour, not even in 0.0.

To the incursions, then !

Or are L4s all the rage now?


L4, for the same reason: L4 cater to those who mined while alt tabbed and whatever.
The massive incursions payouts might have drawn them out to seek for a group but after the nerf their mentality will make them fall back to the path of least resistance.


Devore Sekk wrote:


See, it's a matter of expectations.

There are Level 4 mission runners who use a Drake, which you might consider the Cardboard Spatula. There is a whole spectrum of Level 4 capable ships; each higher one comes with the expectation you are able to fit and pilot it appropriately so as not to lose your investment. Each level of mission ship means you can run missions more efficiently.

If you don't want to risk losing a 3B isk mission runner or do not know how to protect it properly, you fly something cheaper, and accept the lesser lever of income and efficiency.


No, the proper expectation is this:
There are level 4 mission runners who buy a marauder.
Now have coordinated server wide operations decimate 8500 marauders in a month and you'll see they'll also come on the forums.

But of course if it's any other profession, they are cool and entitled. Short bus children are not.



RubyPorto wrote:
2) CONCORD as it exist today is a concession to the carebears who didn't want to be shot. Back when EvE was released, CONCORD was pretty easily tankable (indeed, it was farmed for tags), so Suicide Ganks involved a lot less Suicide than they do today. If you want EvE without PvP, you have access to SiSi, where there is no PvP, including market PvP. Anytime you interact with another player, including through the market screen, you are involved in PvP. Just because you don't like some forms of PvP doesn't mean you get to avoid being influenced by them.


CONCORD is the worst abomination ever created.
It should be made tankable again if not removed completely.

Who effing cares that CONCORD deals swift lol justice by killing your 2M ship?

EvE would be a real sandbox if active defense involving players (corpies, mercs...) would insta-pop any inbound hostile.
As of today, all a merc can do is to wait for a -10 guy to appear directly on the target, the time to react is minimal.


EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#533 - 2012-05-30 07:09:36 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
L4, for the same reason: L4 cater to those who mined while alt tabbed and whatever.
The massive incursions payouts might have drawn them out to seek for a group but after the nerf their mentality will make them fall back to the path of least resistance.


Who effing cares that CONCORD deals swift lol justice by killing your 2M ship?

Oh no, my poor T1 Catalyst Sad

Do people L4 while alt tabbed? I actually need to do some standings grinding but was planning on Drake in L3s, tbh. Or maybe just courier missions, even easier plus I might want a good industrial.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#534 - 2012-05-30 07:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
L4, for the same reason: L4 cater to those who mined while alt tabbed and whatever.
The massive incursions payouts might have drawn them out to seek for a group but after the nerf their mentality will make them fall back to the path of least resistance.


Who effing cares that CONCORD deals swift lol justice by killing your 2M ship?

Oh no, my poor T1 Catalyst Sad

Do people L4 while alt tabbed? I actually need to do some standings grinding but was planning on Drake in L3s, tbh. Or maybe just courier missions, even easier plus I might want a good industrial.


Yes, buy Dominix, put sentries, come back 1 hour later and (optionally) loot.


At this point you might wonder why certain players like miners joined DA SANDBOX game.

Because they expected to find a sandbox where everybody could live at their own pace, as slow / casual / relaxed they wanted (other sandbox MMOs are like that).
Most CCP material sells the gran epic game where everybody may choose to be important, may choose their present and future.
The real product is a groupthink held hostage by out of game organized communities where you either obey and play their way our you are better out.

Just the idea I am forced to be puppeted and used makes me want to unsub today.
Losing some stupid ship is just some space pixels. Losing freedom = death.


Also, grats on taking over and ruining Hulkageddon.
You took Helicity's idea and made it much less epic. Now it's bland subsidized welfare instead of the time of the year whereas there'd be fireworks, increased activity and so on.
Market wise (where it matters to me) it will be a sh!t because it will cause a lack of momentum in the markets that will stabilize at a higher level, while money is nicely made when markets trend up like in anticipation of Hulkageddon.


All you achieved is to transform a yearly epic event into LOL player Insurance in place of EvE NPC old one.

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RAP ACTION HERO
#535 - 2012-05-30 07:14:55 UTC
i guess this will go on until the ring mining thing.

vitoc erryday
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#536 - 2012-05-30 07:27:22 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Yes, buy Dominix, put sentries, come back 1 hour later and (optionally) loot.

Hm, oh right. I guess they like the new drone damage mods.
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Just the idea I am forced to be puppeted and used makes me want to unsub today.
Losing some stupid ship is just some space pixels. Losing freedom = death.

Definitely. Agree totally. If they started forcing level 5 CTAs on us, I would quit too.

But you know, if people started bashing on our door, there wouldn't be a need to do that sort of thing. In fact people would resub (and poor auth directors having to get them back in corp) and it would be GLORIOUS.
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Also, grats on taking over and ruining Hulkageddon.
You took Helicity's idea and made it much less epic. Now it's bland subsidized welfare instead of the time of the year whereas there'd be fireworks, increased activity and so on.
Market wise (where it matters to me) it will be a sh!t because it will cause a lack of momentum in the markets that will stabilize at a higher level, while money is nicely made when markets trend up like in anticipation of Hulkageddon.

All you achieved is to transform a yearly epic event into LOL player Insurance in place of EvE NPC old one.

Yeah. I guess so. You can't just hide until the shells stop coming because by golly, now it's 1400mm shells all day every day/ (Or Void/Antimatter S for catalysts).

Indeed many people would like it if it was over and they can return to mining and call it "irrelevant". Now it's "relevance" is in your face, so to speak.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#537 - 2012-05-30 07:35:15 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Just the idea I am forced to be puppeted and used makes me want to unsub today.
Losing some stupid ship is just some space pixels. Losing freedom = death.

Definitely. Agree totally. If they started forcing level 5 CTAs on us, I would quit too.


That's why I quit myself. It's my playtime and I am not always available to play for somebody else and then buy PLEX to keep play for somebody else.


Alavaria Fera wrote:

Yeah. I guess so. You can't just hide until the shells stop coming because by golly, now it's 1400mm shells all day every day/ (Or Void/Antimatter S for catalysts).

Indeed many people would like it if it was over and they can return to mining and call it "irrelevant". Now it's "relevance" is in your face, so to speak.


It will become irrelevant for me, since I trade minerals I need them to swing up and down.
If the event lasts forever prices will stabilize and will be about 7-8 times less profitable.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#538 - 2012-05-30 08:03:15 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


Rokh = Stainless Steel Spatula
Hulk = Solid Gold Spatula

Miners, through years of nobody bothering them, have adjusted their baseline from what it was before Barges were released. They've started to view the Solid Gold Spatula as the only thing that can flip burgers.


Miners, incredibly enough, adapted from using a combat ship to a mining ship.
This is clearly preposterous and needs to be dealt with.


I never said don't use Hulks. I said that the baseline for safe mining yield in HS is the Rokh, for proof of that, take a tanked mining Rokh (80% of the yield of a Hulk) and mine until you get ganked. You'll never lose the ship.

The Hulk Gains its yield bonus at the expense of not being able to tank as well. The Max Yield Hulk takes that one step further and gains a littile-itty bit more yield in exchange for not being able to tank at all.

Regardless, no ship has any purpose other than what it's currently fitted for.

Quote:

RubyPorto wrote:


How do you know GSF messes with the Tech market? Is it because they've been very public about doing exactly that? If it's public knowledge because the cartel announced it in a press release, you look a little silly when you make it sound like super sekrit spy knowledge.

Minerals are hard to hold in a Cartel. Tech is easy to hold in a Cartel. Once someone holds a Tech Cartel, it makes perfect sense to fund a campaign to increase Tech demand. There is one industry whose Tech demand is massive when that industry is disrupted. That's mining.

Besides that, Tengu's are blitz boats. If they're hanging out to loot/salvage the field, they're doing it wrong.


"Knowing for certain" does not imply in any way it's exclusive knowledge.
It implies it's true.
It implies many in GD don't follow MD and might not know about this.


RubyPorto wrote:

2 Hulks, 3x Webs and 2 MLUIIs each. Gank proof hulks if you're looking at your screen at all.

Mine aligned. If that's hard, figure out a way to make it easier.


Keep 5-6 Hulks aligned and moreover have the corp op Orca also stay in range.
Seems vastly not worth the effort. Had it been a 100M per hour *group* work like Incursions then it'd be worth. But no, it does not yield 100M per hour, not even in 0.0. All of this despite effective mining risk > Incursion risk.
I don't recall the 8500 incursion pimpboats kill mails in a month.


Look, if you don't like the income v effort ratio of mining, don't mine. Eventually mineral prices will rise to the point that it will once again be worth it. If you don't like the player generated risk, figure out how to mitigate that player generated risk.

Anyway, try reading that fit again, then rub two braincells together and you might figure it out.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#539 - 2012-05-30 08:05:47 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Devore Sekk wrote:


See, it's a matter of expectations.

There are Level 4 mission runners who use a Drake, which you might consider the Cardboard Spatula. There is a whole spectrum of Level 4 capable ships; each higher one comes with the expectation you are able to fit and pilot it appropriately so as not to lose your investment. Each level of mission ship means you can run missions more efficiently.

If you don't want to risk losing a 3B isk mission runner or do not know how to protect it properly, you fly something cheaper, and accept the lesser lever of income and efficiency.


No, the proper expectation is this:
There are level 4 mission runners who buy a marauder.
Now have coordinated server wide operations decimate 8500 marauders in a month and you'll see they'll also come on the forums.

But of course if it's any other profession, they are cool and entitled. Short bus children are not.


Exactly what is stopping you from doing that? Is it cause you're too lazy to do that? I think it is.

The CFC, a group of players, have decided to focus their efforts on doing something. Why should CCP punish them for it?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#540 - 2012-05-30 08:10:29 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Look, if you don't like the income v effort ratio of mining, don't mine.


I don't.
I trade.

Sometimes I warp in the belts in a cane and assist a merc corp hired to defend miners.
It's not an easy task, because the game is utterly, completely stacked in gankers' favor.

Now, if only there was a new PvP feature, where a mining corp can forfeit concord protection in exchange for being able to enlist a merc corp to defend them as allies... THAT would be hot.

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