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The Mittani's Presumption of Safety

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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2012-05-30 06:03:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Once Big Business started to realize that computer games are a profitable enterprise, more and more companies got into the field (including a good many that never should have). Since then, games have slowly gone from being something that a company takes pride in making (anyone remember King's Quest, or Space Quest?), to being just a line on the balance sheet of some mindless corporate drone that has no idea what the industry is all about.

With some amazing exceptions (EVE Online, World of Warcraft, and Bioshock come immediately to mind), it stopped being about making a 'good game' and more about 'maintaining a profit margin', even at the expense of quality. Releases were rushed, products left half-finished, and companies struggled against schedules that were impossible to meet if they wanted to launch a product of any quality.

The industry is coming back, now, slowly -- but it's not done healing yet.


This is very true. World of Warcraft isn't successful for any reason other than being a good game on its own. It's not for some people, myself included, but it's loaded with content and it keeps players interested if they're into the themepark thing.

EVE is successful by virtue of having withstood nine consecutive years of operation. CCP, an upstart game development house in Iceland started by a group of Ultima Online players, managed to roll out a game that initially had a very poor outlook based on reviews which predicted that it'd flop within a year.

If CCP wants to appeal to a broader audience, great - they can do that with DUST, the vampire game or whatever. Changing EVE to make it WoW in Space would inevitably lead to failure as you cannot beat WoW at being WoW. The last time they tried to change EVE in such a way, or even discussed it, led to a massive riot in Jita and the massive number of unsubs.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-05-30 06:07:54 UTC
Peta Michalek wrote:
Generally speaking if you want your "article" to be taken even remotely seriously you should avoid sweeping generalizations like turning "consentual PvP in one small area of the entire game you're free to leave the moment you start if you so choose" into "hand-holding" and "no consequences".


okay go write an article about how hisec should be consensual PvP only

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Aggressive Nutmeg
#43 - 2012-05-30 06:08:15 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Eh, I was under the impression that the problem is suicide ganking in hi-sec is a little too one-sided in favor of the ganker. Meaning, it's too "safe" of an activity with its mostly predictable bring-X-firepower, you have X seconds before concord arrives, you lose X standings, etc.. Or maybe high-sec ganking is "easy" because it's impractical for the victims to fight back.

This is a really good point. The victim of a suicide-gank has a vague, general understanding of risk, but has no idea of the who/when/how of his impending death.

On the other hand, the suicide-ganker knows precisely what the outcome will be. He controls the entire encounter. He knows what all the variables are.

So where's the risk for the suicide-ganker? He has agreed to sacrifice his ship and to take a meaningless sec status hit.

Surely the concept of risk v reward involves taking a risk that the outcome might go differently to what you would like?

You're right. It's really one-sided. Suicide-ganking should remain part of the game (because I like to do it sometimes Big smile), but it's currently too easy and risk-free.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Lexmana
#44 - 2012-05-30 06:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Very nice read and spot-on. This cancer is everywhere. One really does not need to seek hard to find players actually believe that competition is 'optional' and they are 'entiteled' to ignore others and do their 'own thing'. I support every action to fight it.
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Whatever the reason, one thing is clear - they wish to destroy the philosophy behind the design of EVE, that competition is not optional, and the niche of the MMO world where it reigns - the PvP-centric MMO.

Competition in EvE, is optional. I'm not forced by the game to go sign up for factional warfare, or try and outbid someone on the market; I'm allowed, should I wish, to ignore those aspects of the game entirely and do my own thing.

You do realize that every action you do in-game has some consequences to other players . It is not possible to play the game 'on your own'.
Zoe Athame
Don't Lose Your Way
#45 - 2012-05-30 06:12:45 UTC
The thread title is in dire need of correct punctuation.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-05-30 06:13:32 UTC
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:
So where's the risk for the suicide-ganker?


Failing a gank? Getting a really crappy loot drop?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-05-30 06:14:12 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
leviticus ander wrote:
a little unrelated, did he end up getting permabanned and that's why he's doing all his whining on things like ten ton hammer and his moral speeches? or is he just staying away from the forums, or what?


He totally didn't post a thread earlier today that has stayed on top of the General Discussion subforum and will stay on the first page for weeks to come. He's obviously permabanned.



Mittani's lucky they did not permaban his sry butt months ago. keep push ccp and beat it will happen.
But for now ill sit back and get a tub of popcorn and watch.

Mittani's times is comeing i can feel it. So is goons.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-05-30 06:15:44 UTC
nat longshot wrote:
Mittani's lucky they did not permaban his sry butt months ago. keep push ccp and beat it will happen.
But for now ill sit back and get a tub of popcorn and watch.

Mittani's times is comeing i can feel it. So is goons.


If CCP was to take a step in that direction I think we'd have no further interest in this game, bans or otherwise.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-05-30 06:20:19 UTC  |  Edited by: nat longshot
Richard Desturned wrote:
nat longshot wrote:
Mittani's lucky they did not permaban his sry butt months ago. keep push ccp and beat it will happen.
But for now ill sit back and get a tub of popcorn and watch.

Mittani's times is comeing i can feel it. So is goons.


If CCP was to take a step in that direction I think we'd have no further interest in this game, bans or otherwise.



My point of view the only time goon or Miitani feels like he has any power in life is ot mess with others in eve life sad really. But his permaban is comeing keep pissing ccp off and soon goons will be no more,

Will i miss goon no but i never missed nc or BOB eather so. grow to big and youll fail like the rest.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!
Peta Michalek
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-05-30 06:20:49 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
You do realize that every action you do in-game has some consequences to other players . It is not possible to play the game 'on your own'.


Depends what do you mean by consequences. If I kill a rat at Asteroid field B and he respawns on top of another player in Asteroid Field H, then yes, technically I created a consequence for another player. But that amount of consequence exists in any MMO and is in no way exclusive to EVE.

If you mean the global economy and such then yes, it can be avoided completely. Buy only skillbooks and blueprints off of NPCs, gather/reprocess your own minerals, build your own ships, do your own research and invention, and spend your free time ratting, doing NPC missions and DED exclusively. A whole lot of content you could do completely on your own and not care about anything - or anyone - else.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-05-30 06:23:18 UTC
nat longshot wrote:
But his permaban is comeing keep pissing ccp off and soon goons will be no more,


Is English your first language?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lexmana
#52 - 2012-05-30 06:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
nat longshot wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
leviticus ander wrote:
a little unrelated, did he end up getting permabanned and that's why he's doing all his whining on things like ten ton hammer and his moral speeches? or is he just staying away from the forums, or what?


He totally didn't post a thread earlier today that has stayed on top of the General Discussion subforum and will stay on the first page for weeks to come. He's obviously permabanned.



Mittani's lucky they did not permaban his sry butt months ago. keep push ccp and beat it will happen.
But for now ill sit back and get a tub of popcorn and watch.

Mittani's times is comeing i can feel it. So is goons.

Wow. If you can't beat him in-game you are hoping that CCP will permaban him? Is this the kind of game you want to play?
seany1212
M Y S T
#53 - 2012-05-30 06:40:16 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
nat longshot wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
leviticus ander wrote:
a little unrelated, did he end up getting permabanned and that's why he's doing all his whining on things like ten ton hammer and his moral speeches? or is he just staying away from the forums, or what?


He totally didn't post a thread earlier today that has stayed on top of the General Discussion subforum and will stay on the first page for weeks to come. He's obviously permabanned.



Mittani's lucky they did not permaban his sry butt months ago. keep push ccp and beat it will happen.
But for now ill sit back and get a tub of popcorn and watch.

Mittani's times is comeing i can feel it. So is goons.

Wow. If you can't beat him in-game you are hoping that CCP will permaban him? Is this the kind of game you want to play?


Unfortunately there are becoming more of these players...

I thought it was a very good article representing the way ive viewed eve for a while and ive only been playing since 08, god knows how those who've been playing years before me view the game as now.

For those bleeting that suicide ganking is easy, its only easy because you make it so. As for the reprocusions i went from practically 0 security status to -4.2 for 2 hulks, a retriever and a pod in 0.5 and 0.6 spaces. I now can only go in 0.5 and below and if i dipped below -5 im shootable anywhere in space. I fail to see how that isnt just rewards. Then again there are people bleeting to ban others for not playing to their gamestyle... Roll
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#54 - 2012-05-30 06:42:09 UTC
Woah, this game seriously may be going places when Mittani himself says "Play my way or go away".
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#55 - 2012-05-30 06:43:44 UTC
seany1212 wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
nat longshot wrote:
Mittani's lucky they did not permaban his sry butt months ago. keep push ccp and beat it will happen.
But for now ill sit back and get a tub of popcorn and watch.

Mittani's times is comeing i can feel it. So is goons.

Wow. If you can't beat him in-game you are hoping that CCP will permaban him? Is this the kind of game you want to play?

Unfortunately there are becoming more of these players...

I thought it was a very good article representing the way ive viewed eve for a while and ive only been playing since 08, god knows how those who've been playing years before me view the game as now.

For those bleeting that suicide ganking is easy, its only easy because you make it so. As for the reprocusions i went from practically 0 security status to -4.2 for 2 hulks, a retriever and a pod in 0.5 and 0.6 spaces. I now can only go in 0.5 and below and if i dipped below -5 im shootable anywhere in space. I fail to see how that isnt just rewards. Then again there are people bleeting to ban others for not playing to their gamestyle... Roll

You should push to just ban all the goons. Heck the whole CFC, why not since you're at it.

I mean, threads have already been made on this subject, people will seriously repond to it. Of course goons will as well, because we all need our laughs, but that's the harsh world of the EVEO General Discussion forum.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
pussnheels
Viziam
#56 - 2012-05-30 06:52:58 UTC
Everything inthis game is about competition, even the mining industry has some cutthroat competition, you want the best mining systems for your own corp and of course you want the best price for yourminerals if you decide to sell them and this goes up all the way to the top with even bigger profit margins or losses, violence is only a way to solve matters when everything else fails
Ofcourse many of these new generation of players (griefers) can t even spell tbe word economy let alone how itworks
They the same kind of teenagers that makes me despise WoW or any of the online shooter games the I MUST WIN geberation at its worse

So claiming that staying out of pvp is avoiding competition is just bullshit, but i didn t expect anything smart from that egocentric bully

It is now on CCP to act , either they take action to avoid a large number of subcribers to leave or allow their own game to die a slow death with lower and lower subscriptions each quarter

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#57 - 2012-05-30 06:53:06 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I don't' recall any movements towards making the game safe, especially to such level that goons must somehow fight back against it to save the game.

There are always suggestions in the forums about it, for an against, but this is business as usual. What specifically happened that such action is needed to save the game from a kind of "Carebearism"?

You're kidding, right? Or were you simply not around long enough? Mind you, I don't judge people through player age; we all have to be new at some point, so don't take that as an insult, whether or not you're new.

But seriously, the amount of changes made to soften the game is staggering.

And to me, it reads like a bucket list.



Yet there are still camps, blobs, bubbles, suicide ganks... or is it not easy enough?


Who really wants the game to be easy?

I was around when the game had people calling themselves pirates who acted like real pirates and only went for targets of value, not targets "for lulz". There is a huge difference between a "sandbox" where people are doing what they want and a sandbox where one kid bonks another over the head with the pale and shovel and points and laughs. When the latter happens enough, Mommy (CCP) is going to restrict that pale and shovel. Nothing I can do anything about. I am not swinging a pale and I know how to duck too.

Feel free to post the bucket list when you have time.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-05-30 06:55:49 UTC
seany1212 wrote:
For those bleeting that suicide ganking is easy, its only easy because you make it so.


Suicide ganking is easy, because it is EASY. Please don't try to make it sound like it is some complex and compelling game play, because it isn't. Simply fit T1 ship with cookie cutter T1 mods. Warp in at optimal range. Push button and receive bacon. It is very easy bro.

seany1212 wrote:
As for the reprocusions i went from practically 0 security status to -4.2 for 2 hulks, a retriever and a pod in 0.5 and 0.6 spaces. I now can only go in 0.5 and below and if i dipped below -5 im shootable anywhere in space. I fail to see how that isnt just rewards. Then again there are people bleeting to ban others for not playing to their gamestyle... Roll


Don't pod and you can stretch out that sec status much farther before retreating back to your null space to work that sec status off. You know that part of the game where you get paid to work it off. That part of the game where Concord gives no fucks about who you shoot, but for some strange reason keeps tabs on how many red crosses you pop?

Every step of suicide ganking is a profit. That is why it is so popular. Big smile
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#59 - 2012-05-30 06:57:15 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I don't' recall any movements towards making the game safe, especially to such level that goons must somehow fight back against it to save the game.

There are always suggestions in the forums about it, for an against, but this is business as usual. What specifically happened that such action is needed to save the game from a kind of "Carebearism"?




Mitt got his 30 day ban and his ego cannot handle it, so now he has called out to his brainless drones to help him seek some sort of retribution in an attempt to be relevent. None of this is about hi sec miners or a sense of entitlement of non pvp'ers, its all about Mitt and his insecurities.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#60 - 2012-05-30 06:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Pok Nibin
Richard Desturned wrote:
nat longshot wrote:
Mittani's lucky they did not permaban his sry butt months ago. keep push ccp and beat it will happen.
But for now ill sit back and get a tub of popcorn and watch.

Mittani's times is comeing i can feel it. So is goons.


If CCP was to take a step in that direction I think we'd have no further interest in this game, bans or otherwise.

There IS a GOD!! On your way out...don't let the door hit yah where the good Lord split yah!

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.