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The Mittani's Presumption of Safety

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#21 - 2012-05-30 04:36:59 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
leviticus ander wrote:
a little unrelated, did he end up getting permabanned and that's why he's doing all his whining on things like ten ton hammer and his moral speeches? or is he just staying away from the forums, or what?


He totally didn't post a thread earlier today that has stayed on top of the General Discussion subforum and will stay on the first page for weeks to come. He's obviously permabanned.

It happens, sometimes people don't read the forums, they just post.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-05-30 04:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Pok Nibin
Richard Desturned wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The first goal of a corporation is to make money, not create a good game. They are mutually exclusive.


Presumably, a "good game" is what is needed to "make money" in the video game industry. So much for your argument!

Actually, ("so much for your argument", hilarious) good games are too difficult for the general public and never make the kind of money corporations like to see. They want something for the teeming, mindless masses...you know,
like Mitt said in the "article."

"So much for your argument..." Whatta hoot! Lol

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#23 - 2012-05-30 04:38:46 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I don't' recall any movements towards making the game safe, especially to such level that goons must somehow fight back against it to save the game.

There are always suggestions in the forums about it, for an against, but this is business as usual. What specifically happened that such action is needed to save the game from a kind of "Carebearism"?

You're kidding, right? Or were you simply not around long enough? Mind you, I don't judge people through player age; we all have to be new at some point, so don't take that as an insult, whether or not you're new.

But seriously, the amount of changes made to soften the game is staggering.

And to me, it reads like a bucket list.

Tha's because it is one.

And the bucket is overflowing by now.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#24 - 2012-05-30 04:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Evelyn Meiyi
Richard Desturned wrote:
Whatever the reason, one thing is clear - they wish to destroy the philosophy behind the design of EVE, that competition is not optional, and the niche of the MMO world where it reigns - the PvP-centric MMO.


I think you're being overly dramatic. There's no 'concentrated effort' to wipe out non-consensual PvP. and nobody that I've spoken to has felt that highsec should be entirely PvP free.

Highsec, to most of them is like driving on a country road as opposed to a freeway -- you're not entirely safe on that country road, but you can afford to let your guard down a bit more.

The idea of 'non-consentual PvP' isn't about 'competition that is not optional'; It's about combat that isn't restricted to juust a button push that pops up a window saying 'John Doe wants to shoot you. Do you accept?'. Pirates, for example, don't usually send out a preemptive message asking 'Do you mind if we shoot you and steal your cargo, Mr. Transport Guy, sir?' *

Competition in EvE, is optional. I'm not forced by the game to go sign up for factional warfare, or try and outbid someone on the market; I'm allowed, should I wish, to ignore those aspects of the game entirely and do my own thing.

My question is, why do you and your fellow Goons try so hard to convince people that this 'harsh universe' is only supposed to be a gunslinger's private theme-park?

*('Tonight, we salute YOU, Mr. Transporting Ore All Over the Universe Man!')
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-05-30 04:42:00 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
No one has ever said they should be protected from ganking.


You don't visit the forums much do you?

Remove PvP from highsec

You can find plenty more threads just like this one in GD & AH.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-05-30 04:44:24 UTC
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Competition in EvE, is optional. I'm not forced by the game to go sign up for factional warfare, or try and outbid someone on the market; I'm allowed, should I wish, to ignore those aspects of the game entirely and do my own thing.


So what do you do in this game that is completely non-competitive?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#27 - 2012-05-30 04:45:19 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Competition in EvE, is optional. I'm not forced by the game to go sign up for factional warfare, or try and outbid someone on the market; I'm allowed, should I wish, to ignore those aspects of the game entirely and do my own thing.


So what do you do in this game that is completely non-competitive?

I donno, do L4s count?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#28 - 2012-05-30 04:45:26 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Competition in EvE, is optional. I'm not forced by the game to go sign up for factional warfare, or try and outbid someone on the market; I'm allowed, should I wish, to ignore those aspects of the game entirely and do my own thing.


So what do you do in this game that is completely non-competitive?


I mine.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-05-30 04:45:54 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Competition in EvE, is optional. I'm not forced by the game to go sign up for factional warfare, or try and outbid someone on the market; I'm allowed, should I wish, to ignore those aspects of the game entirely and do my own thing.


So what do you do in this game that is completely non-competitive?


Even ship-spinning is competitive.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-05-30 04:47:02 UTC
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Competition in EvE, is optional. I'm not forced by the game to go sign up for factional warfare, or try and outbid someone on the market; I'm allowed, should I wish, to ignore those aspects of the game entirely and do my own thing.


So what do you do in this game that is completely non-competitive?


I mine.


This might come as a complete shock to you, but.... You're competing with other miners when you mine.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-05-30 04:49:05 UTC
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
I mine.


So I'm assuming that you don't sell your minerals on the market at all?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#32 - 2012-05-30 04:49:22 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
So what do you do in this game that is completely non-competitive?

I mine.

This might come as a complete shock to you, but.... You're competing with other miners when you mine.

Hey, that's my ore. Why I'll... get a Catalyst and remove you from my ore.

There's ore in them there belts !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#33 - 2012-05-30 04:49:38 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
At least clicking the link to open the post wasn't too much for you. Good luck with your button pushing. Blink


visibly upset rabble rabble
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#34 - 2012-05-30 04:50:59 UTC
Messiah complex. Not worth thinking about it, really. The game is all about what the goons want. Fine with me.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-05-30 05:13:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Hey, that's my ore. Why I'll... get a Catalyst and remove you from my ore.

There's ore in them there belts !


I'll have to suggest this to the miners in my 'current' corp.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#36 - 2012-05-30 05:27:52 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The first goal of a corporation is to make money, not create a good game. They are mutually exclusive.


Presumably, a "good game" is what is needed to "make money" in the video game industry. So much for your argument!

Actually, ("so much for your argument", hilarious) good games are too difficult for the general public and never make the kind of money corporations like to see. They want something for the teeming, mindless masses...you know,
like Mitt said in the "article."

"So much for your argument..." Whatta hoot! Lol


Actually. this is more true than you realize, especially since the mid-1990s.

Once Big Business started to realize that computer games are a profitable enterprise, more and more companies got into the field (including a good many that never should have). Since then, games have slowly gone from being something that a company takes pride in making (anyone remember King's Quest, or Space Quest?), to being just a line on the balance sheet of some mindless corporate drone that has no idea what the industry is all about.

With some amazing exceptions (EVE Online, World of Warcraft, and Bioshock come immediately to mind), it stopped being about making a 'good game' and more about 'maintaining a profit margin', even at the expense of quality. Releases were rushed, products left half-finished, and companies struggled against schedules that were impossible to meet if they wanted to launch a product of any quality.

The industry is coming back, now, slowly -- but it's not done healing yet.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-05-30 05:31:40 UTC
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The first goal of a corporation is to make money, not create a good game. They are mutually exclusive.


Presumably, a "good game" is what is needed to "make money" in the video game industry. So much for your argument!

Actually, ("so much for your argument", hilarious) good games are too difficult for the general public and never make the kind of money corporations like to see. They want something for the teeming, mindless masses...you know,
like Mitt said in the "article."

"So much for your argument..." Whatta hoot! Lol


Actually. this is more true than you realize, especially since the mid-1990s.

Once Big Business started to realize that computer games are a profitable enterprise, more and more companies got into the field (including a good many that never should have). Since then, games have slowly gone from being something that a company takes pride in making (anyone remember King's Quest, or Space Quest?), to being just a line on the balance sheet of some mindless corporate drone that has no idea what the industry is all about.

With some amazing exceptions (EVE Online, World of Warcraft, and Bioshock come immediately to mind), it stopped being about making a 'good game' and more about 'maintaining a profit margin', even at the expense of quality. Releases were rushed, products left half-finished, and companies struggled against schedules that were impossible to meet if they wanted to launch a product of any quality.

The industry is coming back, now, slowly -- but it's not done healing yet.


I noticed you add World of Warcraft as an exception, but it really isn't. Blizzard cares more about lost profit than any other company.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
stoicfaux
#38 - 2012-05-30 05:49:22 UTC
Eh, I was under the impression that the problem is suicide ganking in hi-sec is a little too one-sided in favor of the ganker. Meaning, it's too "safe" of an activity with its mostly predictable bring-X-firepower, you have X seconds before concord arrives, you lose X standings, etc.. Or maybe high-sec ganking is "easy" because it's impractical for the victims to fight back.

High-sec would be safer if gankers were actually treated as outlaws (i.e. shoot on sight for players and sentry guns) after their first criminal act, and the outlaw flag wasn't removed until after the criminal paid restitution to the victim (which with the war tracking feature should be relatively easy to implement.)

Anyway, if you want to curb hi-sec suicide ganking, try giving the high-sec players the tools to enforce the peace themselves.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Aggressive Nutmeg
#39 - 2012-05-30 05:49:54 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
No one has ever said they should be protected from ganking. They have said the consequences are not balanced. And, this argument has been very eloquently stated from several corners. It's also true Mitt and his minions haven't bothered to try to respond to that argument. Rather, they try to characterize the dispute as he does in this article - claiming the "others" want no consequences, when it is them all along. If they are summarily made to pay a real price for their activity, they cry like carebears. Such disingenuousness is not unknown for Mitt. It's his hallmark, along with obfuscation and distortion. That he can get a bevy of people to follow him while offering no more than that speaks more of them than it does of him.

How long will he be able to mischaracterize in order to cultivate his imagined position as an MMO rock star, who knows, and really, who cares? Being a big fish in a small pond may have its perks. That's something I'll never bother to discover. However, the entire thrust of what he said in this "article" in this "publication" of some imagined importance is as significant as is the speaker. Broadbrushed histories replete with histrionics on the story of gaming is nothing new. He seems to have repeated the litany well enough. Though, it's said in every general chat function in every game online today; not too original.

That this publication would bother to print what he said speaks more to their lack of potential content than the veracity or stature of the one interviewed. Games always, and will always, rely upon their quality as such from the inventors and developers of the games. Players like to present themselves as more than just players. Wannabees abound. If a game rises and falls, it will always be the responsibility and doing of the management. As for EVE, it may be listening to the players...or player...will become the biggest mistake they'll ever make. Time will tell.

Mitts come and go. There's nothing new to that. Good games? Good luck. Egos aren't gifted with the intelligence required to design a good one. At this point, egos rule EVE, but the corporate mentality will be making the decisions. The first goal of a corporation is to make money, not create a good game. They are mutually exclusive.

Nice try, Mitt. No cigar.

Probably the most eloquent, succinct and accurate exposé ever written about this narcissist and his cult of sycophants. Well done.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Peta Michalek
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-05-30 06:00:36 UTC
Quote:
there is a silent, ignorant herd of players who genuinely believe that EVE is just like the other MMOs on the market - the PvP-optional, hand-holding MMOs who will pat you on the back, wipe away your tears, and give you a 30-second respawn with no consequences.


Generally speaking if you want your "article" to be taken even remotely seriously you should avoid sweeping generalizations like turning "consentual PvP in one small area of the entire game you're free to leave the moment you start if you so choose" into "hand-holding" and "no consequences".