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Warfare & Tactics

 
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CCP: a question about FW for the forseeable future

First post
Author
Mister Kwong
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-05-29 20:31:46 UTC
Not sure what's more dumb. Hidden Snake's use of ellipses or consistent usage of 1 sentence paragraphs
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-05-29 20:39:20 UTC
Someone has to lose. If not. Why have a system contestion mechanic (remove it)? You're milltia has to do more with less. Outnumbered but, never outgunned etc.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#23 - 2012-05-29 20:49:07 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Reset wouldn't have helped much, merely delayed the current situation. Difference in plexing is really that pronounced, a small fact that the Gal/Cal chest-beaters can't seem to fathom as they both have stupidly solo'able NPCs and a warzone specifically designed for FW.


Minors and mediums are fine, but try getting jammed for a minute solid in the larger plexes. It's not fun.

Question: Are the Minmatar rats a significant threat even in minor plexes? (Assuming you don't come in to a full spawn)

I do agree that CCP should have nerfed all rats into oblivion BEFORE these changes. But what do you mean by having a warzone specifically designed for FW...?


The minors will start to chew into an armor buffer tank but any shield tank should be ok. Mediums are more of a problem. The major plexes can't really be run in a decent pvp bc.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Qui Lani
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-05-29 20:54:31 UTC
Cearain wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Reset wouldn't have helped much, merely delayed the current situation. Difference in plexing is really that pronounced, a small fact that the Gal/Cal chest-beaters can't seem to fathom as they both have stupidly solo'able NPCs and a warzone specifically designed for FW.


Minors and mediums are fine, but try getting jammed for a minute solid in the larger plexes. It's not fun.

Question: Are the Minmatar rats a significant threat even in minor plexes? (Assuming you don't come in to a full spawn)

I do agree that CCP should have nerfed all rats into oblivion BEFORE these changes. But what do you mean by having a warzone specifically designed for FW...?


The minors will start to chew into an armor buffer tank but any shield tank should be ok. Mediums are more of a problem. The major plexes can't really be run in a decent pvp bc.


Can Caldari major plexes be runned in a pvp nano drake or a dual/tripple repping myrm?
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-05-29 21:00:56 UTC
Qui Lani wrote:
Cearain wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Reset wouldn't have helped much, merely delayed the current situation. Difference in plexing is really that pronounced, a small fact that the Gal/Cal chest-beaters can't seem to fathom as they both have stupidly solo'able NPCs and a warzone specifically designed for FW.


Minors and mediums are fine, but try getting jammed for a minute solid in the larger plexes. It's not fun.

Question: Are the Minmatar rats a significant threat even in minor plexes? (Assuming you don't come in to a full spawn)

I do agree that CCP should have nerfed all rats into oblivion BEFORE these changes. But what do you mean by having a warzone specifically designed for FW...?


The minors will start to chew into an armor buffer tank but any shield tank should be ok. Mediums are more of a problem. The major plexes can't really be run in a decent pvp bc.


Can Caldari major plexes be runned in a pvp nano drake or a dual/tripple repping myrm?


No. A gang of pvp Drakes can run it with each Drake tanking for 1-2 minutes before warping out then coming back. I suppose a triple rep myrm could tank it, but you'd run out of cap boosters. You can do Caldari minors in a dessie, but to do a medium or major you need a pimped out PVE fit AF. The majors will start to break most AF's tanks by the last spawn, so it will either be very close or you have to kill some NPCs which is hard when you are perma jammed in the majors.

.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#26 - 2012-05-29 21:02:17 UTC
The answer to this is to get out there and start shooting those red crosses and orbiting buttons.

What you joined faction war for frequent pvp? Well too bad for you.

Its now about grinding plexes and shooting npcs for lots and lots of isk. The more you do this grind the more you can brag about how you "adapted." Did I mention you will be able to farm missions where your enemy can't even dock? Thats better than "carebear" you can be a "nullbear-lite".

Seriously, what needs to happen before ccp recognizes the station lock out is a horrible idea?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#27 - 2012-05-29 21:17:02 UTC
Nephilim Xeno wrote:
I have no idea what CCP wanted to accomplish with this patch but definatly not to fix FW in the long run.

Or they are far more stupid than i have ever imagined..

So they just went ahead, ignoring all well known imbalances, bugs and exploits, and implemented severe consequences into the FW

system that pretty much screws over the numeric inferior side completly.

Eventually leaving them no way to earn isk, dock in low sec and in consequence no chance to retake any system.

So combined with the original FW system, that already was completly designed against amarr in terms of ship balance, npc balance,

system distribution/layout and the fact that due to bad racial role play design amarr milita has always been lass attractive to

players than any other faction, thischanges only aim towards one goal which is to remove the amarr milita (or any milita on the

loosing side) completly from the game.

And if this was not the intention of CCP then it can only mean that the people of CCP are some of the worst devs, game designers

and game balancers in game history.
Its almost as if CCP does not know at all how their own game actually works.

My prediction is that once the new and shiny effect of this patch has worn off and the supply of suicidal noobs on both sides has

dried up, FW will be in far worse state that it was before this patch.

Fcs on the amarr side will burn out fast and no one will run fleets anymore.
After that Amarr Milita will probably become mostly inactive with the exception of a few die hards that will not care about plexing

(since the LP rewards are useless with this store prices) and try to roam around in small/fast gangs to pick off lone WTs.

After that caldari milita will have to fight the combined blobs of gallente and minmatar which they will probably not have any

chance of beating and that will slowly bring them towards the same end as the amarr milita.

Minmatar and Gallente militas will be flooded with farming carebears and the amount of stealth bombers running around low sec would

blot out all suns IF they were not cloaked most of the time ;)

And with the Empyrean Age (imo the best expansion eve ever had) will come to an end.

Unfortunatly the only effective way to communicate with CCP is through the cancel button in the account management which i have

used 3 times recently.

And to those the still cling to the hope of CCP fixing the bugs, imbalances and the promise to keep iterating on FW i can only say:

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

CCP never thinks long term and in short terms this patch might actually look like a success.
So they will be pretty much done with FW and hardly do anything anymore.

It will be interesting to see how dust514 will turn out since there is unlike with eve a lot of competition out there.

But since CCPs strategy seems not to be to attract new players but instead just keep milking their existing ones by making them buy

more accounts (T3 booster alt, capital/super cap alt, industry alt, neutral hauling alt) and now even more games (dust 514) it

might work out somehow for them.

And with this my final eve rant is over and all the cry more, htfu, gtfo and adapt or die replies can come ;)



So...um, can I have your stuff? :)

- Capitol

Ps. Amarr Victor!
rightuos
The Tempted Strain
#28 - 2012-05-29 22:16:23 UTC
whine translation = I can not camp auga third anymoarz
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-05-29 22:35:41 UTC
NPC balancing is a legitimate complaint. It is unbalanced when you can run a major plex with a t1 frig fit up with overdrives and a shield buffer. It's particularly bad now that FW has had a slight numbers boost since all the newbs in t1 frigs plus the usual alts are running around contesting backwater systems and running from fights constantly. That's a problem that exists across all tzs and it means you can wage occupancy war for substantially less isk than your opponent. CCP needs to get on NPC balancing right away, and should have done so before the patch even hit, but it seems they don't actually ask actual players for advice, cause no one in their right mind would have suggested this system in its totality.

All the other crap in this post is whiney bullshit. You knew these changes were coming, you knew what you had to do. You could have organized better, recruited more. Instead you chose to whine. You had at least a month to get your **** together and now you're facing the consequences. You have my sympathy as far as the NPC balance issues go, because they are a huge issue, but for everything else, suck it up pussy.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#30 - 2012-05-29 22:38:15 UTC
Cearain wrote:
What you joined faction war for frequent pvp? Well too bad for you.

Regardless of plexing mechanics, system occupancy rule changes, who owns how many systems, etc... If you cannot find frequent pew right now, then you're doing it wrong.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#31 - 2012-05-29 22:41:40 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
NPC balancing is a legitimate complaint. It is unbalanced when you can run a major plex with a t1 frig fit up with overdrives and a shield buffer. It's particularly bad now that FW has had a slight numbers boost since all the newbs in t1 frigs plus the usual alts are running around contesting backwater systems and running from fights constantly. That's a problem that exists across all tzs and it means you can wage occupancy war for substantially less isk than your opponent. CCP needs to get on NPC balancing right away, and should have done so before the patch even hit, but it seems they don't actually ask actual players for advice, cause no one in their right mind would have suggested this system in its totality.
Agreed, CCP needs to get on this, but it's not game breaking. CCP also has a thread up of Features and Ideas looking for suggestions w.r.t FW NPCs, so it certainly seems like they will tackle this before all of our Gallente systems are over run by new players in warp core stabbed T1 Condors (poor guys, they were warned...).Lol


Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#32 - 2012-05-29 23:15:42 UTC
Post FW suggestions and feedback here for the upcoming CSM summit;
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=110162&find=unread

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#33 - 2012-05-29 23:23:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
..lots of references to events from before CCP took a dump on FW .. again ..

Causing them "grief" does absolutely nothing other than allow for the accumulation of infini-LP through plexing .. (maximum of half what a Shakorite would get as they can solo any plex by the way).
Even if by some miracle, Shakorites are asleep for several days and a system is flipped somewhere in the sticks the plex balance is so broken that it will be a practical impossibility to hold such a system .. (ref: any system held beyond Dal pre-idiocy)

Reset wouldn't have helped much, merely delayed the current situation. Difference in plexing is really that pronounced, a small fact that the Gal/Cal chest-beaters can't seem to fathom as they both have stupidly solo'able NPCs and a warzone specifically designed for FW.



I guess us Caldari are the only ones that ever actually kill the NPC's? It takes a single Arti Thrasher to run a minor and you can kill every NPC rat before they do any damage.. It's takes 2 Arti Thrashers or a Caracal to run any Med doesn't matter what race. Major out posts from any race can be solo'd in a Drake.. or a aggro ship & Caracal or small gang of Dessies.

You are just lazy end of story. I've never speed tanked Gal rats, always killed the NPC's. All the NPC's don't spawn at once so if you can't kill what amounts to not even a lvl 3 mission worth of NPC's in a BC then you are extremely lazy.

Also you had plenty of time to do this prior to the system change, as it was known about for a few months.. Much less anyone that had ships get stuck in stations because they were to lazy to move them is a moron.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-05-29 23:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
Well if anyone really read the first post fully, they would realise that no sane corp or player would join a loosing side because there is nothing to gain; other than a blob to shoot and some worthless LP.

The entire point ofthe post besides a damned good wine was to highlight the fact that the loosing side should have some perks (or at least not have their hands tied at every stage) to attract players to fight for them, instead its down side after down side - this is not a sustainable situation.

New players will loose all their stuff fast -well actually slowly since they will have to run back and forth from high sec or non fw systems to do it- LOL "FIGHT FOR FW, DO IT OUT OF NON FW SYSTEMS" - yeah great plan CCP.

Corps will be loosing players as the isk drys up and the relentless blobs de contest faster than you can contest, while blowing your **** up over and over.

I personnely never made any isk from missions but 90% of everyone else in FW did, and they are dropping like flies. Right infront of our eyes.

Any new-comers would be insane to want to join amarr or caldari and in my opinion, this is a stupid idea for a career path that is fixed by the "rules" and mechanics, not like 0.0.

No isk, no place to base - all against a far greater (and happier) force. It not last..

MUAD HAS SPOKEN!

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#35 - 2012-05-29 23:28:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
rightuos wrote:
whine translation = I can not camp auga third anymoarz


Pretty much this. The reason I left Minmatar Militia and went pie & never came back to that side of the war when I decided to come back to FW was because Amarr & Minmatar fighting revolved around playing stations games and camping a handful of gates in the same few systems day after day.

It was like high sec war dec PVP.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-05-29 23:39:48 UTC
rightuos wrote:
whine translation = I can not camp auga third anymoarz



TMFED haddnt camped auga for a long time, since we already killed everyone there and minnies moved their bases, we didnt need ccp to change a mechanic to do it for us.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Arianna Satellizer
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-05-30 00:07:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Arianna Satellizer
Mutnin wrote:
rightuos wrote:
whine translation = I can not camp auga third anymoarz


"revolved around playing stations games and camping a handful of gates in the same few systems day after day."

It was like high sec war dec PVP.


Which most Amarrs love and prefer than non stop PLEX grinding all day.

Why cant gate camping and station camping have a nice effect too on FW on a large scale basis when doing so you rid of the system of the empire enemy.

Min/Gal fortunately have the monopoly of PLEX lovers what about those factions that does not have these plex counter maniacs?
Not all people cant be forced to love and run these things.

Most pilots in Amar would rather poke their noses all day than PLEX and orbit that hellish button.

Why not count faction/militia ship loss as a means to win or loose ownership of a particular system.
That way every small, medium and big fleet encounter outside plexing can also determine gain or loss of system ownership.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#38 - 2012-05-30 00:38:46 UTC
Mutnin wrote:


I guess us Caldari are the only ones that ever actually kill the NPC's? It takes a single Arti Thrasher to run a minor and you can kill every NPC rat before they do any damage.. It's takes 2 Arti Thrashers or a Caracal to run any Med doesn't matter what race. Major out posts from any race can be solo'd in a Drake.. or a aggro ship & Caracal or small gang of Dessies.

You are just lazy end of story.
I don't think anybody has a problem with what you're doing. They have a problem with a sh** fit condor soloing majors. Anyways, CCP acknowledges it's an issue, and they have a post up on Features and Ideas. Hopefully they'll figure it out soon.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#39 - 2012-05-30 00:54:38 UTC
Arianna Satellizer wrote:
Which most Amarrs love and prefer than non stop PLEX grinding all day.

So here's a question for you. If you don't want to particpate in the Occupancy Warfare portion of FW, then what's the big deal? Log on, hunt plexers/wts, kill them, log off.



1. Before the station lockout issue comes up: There's plenty of high sec/non-FW systems one-two jumps from massive numbers of WTs.


2. Before the whine about rewards comes up: What does it matter if you don't make any isk off of FW plexes or run missions? You don't do those things anyways.
Haulie Berry
#40 - 2012-05-30 00:59:52 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
Okay so, the patch is in are we are a week in now so heres the thoughts and questions to ccp.

So Amarr are outnumbered heavily by the minmatar - never had an issue with this before, lots to shoot.



Not... not really. 5539 Min pilots to 4853 Amarr pilots. Caldari outnumber Gallente 8482 to 6399.

Quote:
CCP released the laughable rules about the sov implications, lock out from station in low sec (not high sec lol) and LP changes based on total system occupancy and the levels of upgrade on those systems.


What's "laughable" about them, precisely? It mainly sounds like you don't like them because they adversely affect you. That's understandable, but it doesn't make them poor design decisions.

Maybe less QQ, more pewpew and before long you will be > T1?