These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Plea for Rationale in the System of Natural Consequences

Author
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#441 - 2012-05-29 17:18:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
baltec1 wrote:


Hi Bat Country here. Killing droves of tengu doesn't mess with the ice market. Thats why we have not bothered to kill them.


I know for certain that your upper ranks also mess with Technetium.

Why not messing with minerals by killing Tengus? Less loot goes to the market => prices rise.

This is now expecially evident, as since CCP nerfed the M0 drops, missioneers can now easily loot again in a solo setup (expecially on marauders but hey, why would you not kill them too Twisted) and this is causing serious M3-M4 drop in price and by result, mineral prices are also affected.
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
#442 - 2012-05-29 17:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ispia Jaydrath
Kaaeliaa wrote:
Because deliberately and gleefully ruining the game experience of other people for fun and profit, no matter how stupid those people may be, falls under the clinical definition of psychopathy.

From a dictionary: "Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the feelings of others and often the rules of society. Psychopaths have a lack of empathy and remorse, and have very shallow emotions. They are generally regarded as callous, selfish, dishonest, arrogant, aggressive, impulsive, irresponsible, and hedonistic."

Your comparison is unimaginably stupid. There are no players controlling the asteroids.


It's funny because you're calling people sociopaths for playing a game, then calling somebody else stupid.

It looks like you have lost perspective in a serious way. I recommend taking a break from the game for a few days.
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#443 - 2012-05-29 17:28:28 UTC
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
Kaaeliaa wrote:
Because deliberately and gleefully ruining the game experience of other people for fun and profit, no matter how stupid those people may be, falls under the clinical definition of psychopathy.

From a dictionary: "Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the feelings of others and often the rules of society. Psychopaths have a lack of empathy and remorse, and have very shallow emotions. They are generally regarded as callous, selfish, dishonest, arrogant, aggressive, impulsive, irresponsible, and hedonistic."

Your comparison is unimaginably stupid. There are no players controlling the asteroids.


It's funny because you're calling people sociopaths for playing a game, then calling somebody else stupid.

I looks like you have lost perspective in a serious way. I recommend taking a break from the game for a few days.


I didn't call them sociopaths. I called them psychopaths. Despite your entirely useless statement, you didn't refute my point.

I also didn't call the poster I quoted stupid. I said that his/her comparison was stupid. You really should learn what the word "nuance" means.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."

Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
#444 - 2012-05-29 17:32:28 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
Kaaeliaa wrote:
Because deliberately and gleefully ruining the game experience of other people for fun and profit, no matter how stupid those people may be, falls under the clinical definition of psychopathy.

From a dictionary: "Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the feelings of others and often the rules of society. Psychopaths have a lack of empathy and remorse, and have very shallow emotions. They are generally regarded as callous, selfish, dishonest, arrogant, aggressive, impulsive, irresponsible, and hedonistic."

Your comparison is unimaginably stupid. There are no players controlling the asteroids.


It's funny because you're calling people sociopaths for playing a game, then calling somebody else stupid.

I looks like you have lost perspective in a serious way. I recommend taking a break from the game for a few days.


I didn't call them sociopaths. I called them psychopaths. Despite your entirely useless statement, you didn't refute my point.

I also didn't call the poster I quoted stupid. I said that his/her comparison was stupid. You really should learn what the word "nuance" means.


Quibbling about minutiae won't turn you into a balanced individual.
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#445 - 2012-05-29 17:40:21 UTC
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
Kaaeliaa wrote:
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
Kaaeliaa wrote:
Because deliberately and gleefully ruining the game experience of other people for fun and profit, no matter how stupid those people may be, falls under the clinical definition of psychopathy.

From a dictionary: "Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the feelings of others and often the rules of society. Psychopaths have a lack of empathy and remorse, and have very shallow emotions. They are generally regarded as callous, selfish, dishonest, arrogant, aggressive, impulsive, irresponsible, and hedonistic."

Your comparison is unimaginably stupid. There are no players controlling the asteroids.


It's funny because you're calling people sociopaths for playing a game, then calling somebody else stupid.

I looks like you have lost perspective in a serious way. I recommend taking a break from the game for a few days.


I didn't call them sociopaths. I called them psychopaths. Despite your entirely useless statement, you didn't refute my point.

I also didn't call the poster I quoted stupid. I said that his/her comparison was stupid. You really should learn what the word "nuance" means.


Quibbling about minutiae won't turn you into a balanced individual.


And misinterpreting other people's attempts to communicate doesn't do you any favors, either. (:

I find it interesting that most posters seem to assume that I'm personally involved in the current conflict between carebears and nullbears. In fact, I've never lost a mining ship, and I've been happily pulling in ice and ores in highsec all through Hulkageddon and for a long time before that.

My problem with the current situation is that making every area of the game a truly unpleasant place to be WILL have cascading consequences if it continues. I agree with the basic premise that something needs to be done, and that that something does not involve eliminating the possibility of suicide ganking. I think there's a much deeper problem plaguing the game; Hulkageddons and the recent uptick of suicide ganking is merely a symptom.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#446 - 2012-05-29 17:41:28 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:
I didn't call them sociopaths. I called them psychopaths.
Now, now. Just because the miners can't stick to the rules of society doesn't mean they're mentally disturbed.

…but the whole “selfish, dishonest, arrogant, irresponsible” bit sure fits. As well. It's more likely that they just suffer from BPD or schizophrenia, though.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#447 - 2012-05-29 17:42:11 UTC
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
Quibbling about minutiae won't turn you into a balanced individual.


They actually mean exactly the same thing. I think one is just more modern, technical, and "politically-correct".

However, in every day use they are still used interchangeably, which means he's just grasping at straws to save face after getting ownzoned by multiple people for such making a ridiculous statement.


Haulie Berry
#448 - 2012-05-29 17:46:57 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:


I didn't call them sociopaths. I called them psychopaths. Despite your entirely useless statement, you didn't refute my point.

I also didn't call the poster I quoted stupid. I said that his/her comparison was stupid. You really should learn what the word "nuance" means.



Like you, I am not a qualified psychologist.

Unlike you, I don't play one on the internet, so you'll have to help me out here: which disorder is it that causes people to levy diagnoses against anyone who does something they don't like in a video game?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#449 - 2012-05-29 17:50:48 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:
I find it interesting that most posters seem to assume that I'm personally involved in the current conflict between carebears and nullbears. In fact, I've never lost a mining ship, and I've been happily pulling in ice and ores in highsec all through Hulkageddon and for a long time before that.

My problem with the current situation is that making every area of the game a truly unpleasant place to be WILL have cascading consequences if it continues. I agree with the basic premise that something needs to be done, and that that something does not involve eliminating the possibility of suicide ganking. I think there's a much deeper problem plaguing the game; Hulkageddons and the recent uptick of suicide ganking is merely a symptom.


Hulkageddon due to last forever.

Just dropping this here.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#450 - 2012-05-29 17:50:49 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Avid Bumhumper wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You are investing time into something you don't really understand, Mr. Successful Real-Life Businessman Married With Children.

You see, this is a video game that focuses on conflict, scamming, violence, murder, and sociopathy. This is a place where people with real life issues act out the way they would like to in real life, but can't due to pesky laws and such.


Fixed that for you....


Since when is shooting someone in a game that specifically allows it indicative of "real life issues"?

Miners are strip mining the natural resources of the universe with no thought to conservation... is that indicative of "real life issues"?


Because deliberately and gleefully ruining the game experience of other people for fun and profit, no matter how stupid those people may be, falls under the clinical definition of psychopathy.

From a dictionary: "Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the feelings of others and often the rules of society. Psychopaths have a lack of empathy and remorse, and have very shallow emotions. They are generally regarded as callous, selfish, dishonest, arrogant, aggressive, impulsive, irresponsible, and hedonistic."

Your comparison is unimaginably stupid. There are no players controlling the asteroids.


In most any contact sport you can name the rules of that game allow for some level of violence towards the other players. In another setting this would be socially unacceptable and indicative of "real life issues", however in the setting of that game it is perfectly acceptable (in fact it is encouraged).

In many video games committing acts of violence that kill or offer a severe set back to the goals of other characters is allowed and encouraged. This is one such game.

By your definition any professional athlete or anyone that plays a game where conflict is encouraged has "real life issues".

Do you begin to see where the only person with issues is yourself yet....

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Serene Repose
#451 - 2012-05-29 18:04:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
I can tell a contorted argument when I see one. Nice pretzel logic you got workin' there.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#452 - 2012-05-29 18:05:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
I think that part of the issue is that many think that suicide gankers are somehow breaking the rules because of how Concord intervention works.

This is, of course, completely incorrect.

The ability to suicide gank is a very carefully considered and valid part of the game mechanics. It is fully intended that this be allowed to happen, and is in no way outside the realm of normal gameplay or an exploit of any kind.

They are supposed to be able to kill you, but they are forced to pay a price for that victory and must be reasonably efficient at it or else they lose ISK. They are given a handicap if they wish to pursue this style of game play, and they understand that.

High Sec miners, on the other hand, believe they are simply tasked with the "challenge" of mining their ore efficiently.

This is, of course, completely incorrect.

High Sec miners must find ways to efficiently mine their ore while avoiding or defeating the attempts by other players to stop them. This applies to all Sec levels.

Many High Sec miners appear to not understand the rules of the game that are relevant to their profession.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#453 - 2012-05-29 18:13:35 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I think that part of the issue is that many think that suicide gankers are somehow breaking the rules because of how Concord intervention works.

This is, of course, completely incorrect.

The ability to suicide gank is a very carefully considered and valid part of the game mechanics. It is fully intended that this be allowed to happen, and is in no way outside the realm of normal gameplay or an exploit of any kind.

They are supposed to be able to kill you, but they are forced to pay a price for that victory and must be reasonably efficient at it or else they lose ISK. They are given a handicap if they wish to pursue this style of game play, and they understand that.

High Sec miners, on the other hand, believe they are simply tasked with the "challenge" of mining their ore efficiently.

This is, of course, completely incorrect.

High Sec miners must find ways to efficiently mine their ore while avoiding or defeating the attempts by other players to stop them. This applies to all Sec levels.

Many High Sec miners appear to not understand the rules of the game that are relevant to their profession.


No I think many miners understand the risk, and don't mind some risk. In many ppls opinion though its unbalanced at the moment in favour of the ganker in hi sec.

Tal





Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#454 - 2012-05-29 18:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Ranger 1 wrote:

High Sec miners must find ways to efficiently mine their ore while avoiding or defeating the attempts by other players to stop them. This applies to all Sec levels.

Many High Sec miners appear to not understand the rules of the game that are relevant to their profession.


They can't defeat attempts by other players to stop them, since all it takes is to bring N + 1 catalyst to finish a more tanked Hulk.

They can avoid by docking and never undocking again and maybe ask themselves if they should do something else, like i.e. go play a real PvP game like GW2.

A miner that decides to undock since today perma-hulkageddon is just a poor idiot, similar to someone fitting a plate, shield flux, 3 medium lasers and 2 small turrets.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#455 - 2012-05-29 18:20:49 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


I know for certain that your upper ranks also mess with Technetium.

Why not messing with minerals by killing Tengus? Less loot goes to the market => prices rise.

This is now expecially evident, as since CCP nerfed the M0 drops, missioneers can now easily loot again in a solo setup (expecially on marauders but hey, why would you not kill them too Twisted) and this is causing serious M3-M4 drop in price and by result, mineral prices are also affected.


Mission tengu activity is far too widespread to make any impact on the market on the corp level. Even on the CFC level a full interdiction on tangu mission runners would cost a fortune for little return from the markets other than perhaps slightly elevated tengu prices. An anti Tengu campain is not viable let alone an anti mission crusade. Both of the interdictions worked because the vast bulk of miners fail to fit any tank where as mission runners always have a tank and dont sit still very long.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#456 - 2012-05-29 18:24:47 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Hulkageddon due to last forever.

Just dropping this here.


Yet another reason to fit a tank.
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#457 - 2012-05-29 18:29:05 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
Quibbling about minutiae won't turn you into a balanced individual.


They actually mean exactly the same thing. I think one is just more modern, technical, and "politically-correct".

However, in every day use they are still used interchangeably, which means he's just grasping at straws to save face after getting ownzoned by multiple people for such making a ridiculous statement.




The diagnosis of sociopathy is being phased out in favor of other, more tightly defined personality disorders. You are correct in that the general public often misuses the terminology, which is not uncommon and indeed not particularly meaningful as an argument.

I don't think I've made any particularly ridiculous or radical statements. EVE is a cesspool. The people that inhabit that cesspool, by and large, like it that way.

However, like any other thing, EVE will evolve over time. Right now, the direction it's going is troubling to most of us; this I'm sure we can all agree on. However, for the players that don't belong to megacorporations or large and powerful nullsec alliances, the outlook is much more grim than having a ridiculous new inventory. I'd like to reiterate that I have not lost a ship to Hulkageddon or any other action, and I've been happily mining away in peace. I don't think suicide ganking should be outlawed. As I mentioned before, I believe that it's merely a symptom of bigger problems. CCP needs to nail the archer, and not the arrow, in this case.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."

Benf Hawlr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#458 - 2012-05-29 18:34:34 UTC
How fortuitous that on the very day i decide to make this alt a ganker/pirate i should come across a whiney f***** posting in faux execu-speak. 'Solution Architect' sounds like a euphemism for thug, the white collar variety.

Thats not the first Hulk your gonna lose mister.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#459 - 2012-05-29 18:36:18 UTC
Benf Hawlr wrote:
How fortuitous that on the very day i decide to make this alt a ganker/pirate i should come across a whiney f***** posting in faux execu-speak. 'Solution Architect' sounds like a euphemism for thug, the white collar variety.

Thats not the first Hulk your gonna lose mister.

Kill 10 hulks and receive a bounty ~

You, too, can join the "exhumer ganker" profession.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#460 - 2012-05-29 18:43:08 UTC
ShipToaster wrote:
Sandbox.


Like all great things, can be taken too far.

This is not even something "cool" it is the strongest picking on the weakest, it is just lame.

Everything has limits.

I'm an American, English is my second language...