These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

CCP: a question about FW for the forseeable future

First post
Author
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-05-29 16:49:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
Okay so, the patch is in are we are a week in now so heres the thoughts and questions to ccp.

So Amarr are outnumbered heavily by the minmatar - never had an issue with this before, lots to shoot.

CCP released the laughable rules about the sov implications, lock out from station in low sec (not high sec lol) and LP changes based on total system occupancy and the levels of upgrade on those systems.

The issues:
1. We (the Amarr) have barly any systems to dock in base from or reship in, repair etc
2. We have hardly any systesm to upgrade so our lp took a dive making Navy BS some 1 million LP to exchange, isk flow is a problem.
3. We have to move any and all stuff we want to use to fight the war to the systems that are "safe" and since the numbers are not in our favour by a long shot, logisticly meaning we need to spam alts etc to move.
4. We do not have the TZ coverage the outnumbering force has, meaning if we try to take a system away from the front lines we are very likly to find it de contested when we log backon the next day.
5. Due to the space inbetwen systems and nmbers of the enemy, re shipping for a fight or to take a system plexes gives a massive advantage to the enemy who can reship in any stations they please.
6. The enemy get very cheap effective ships for hardly any effort in pvp or plexing, this means they are tooled up and have spares everywhere.
7. New players cannot make money in fw, they NEED alternative isk incomes and logistic help to be able to try to get involved in fw (not newb freidnly at all)
8. We are faced with basing from a safe system thats well protected from being taken and since we are outnumbered basing out of a NON fw system makes the most sense, which is ironic and asinine considering low sec FW is about the fights and isk to do so....
9. No systems reset means the pre patch/sisi information was totally abused before the new mechanics were in extending system take overs from a few hours, to over a day solid plexing, to make a system vaunrable (combined with above means they took everything easily and we with half the numbers, have 5 times as much to do, with no isk and no bases to do so)

The pionts above mean that against a large force around the TZ clock, the underdog is screwed out of isk and base systems, which for a lo sec fun game career, NOT based on player run alliances, extremely hard to try to play against.

I realise that the majority of people happy with these changes are on the 'winning' side because you know... they have the larger force and also the CSM hans but where does that leave the guys they are meant to be fighting against?

No isk to fight no systems to base out of no reason for new members to join or current members to stay in amarr corps.

I enjoyed FW for many years pvping when that was the main cause and im at a major loss in game play with this new patch making that pvp more about the lp and soverienty and almost making lorvly low sec 0.0 style uninhabitable and non weekend warrior-and-answering-the-doorbell - freindly.


Yes im mad and no you cant have my stuff, mostly because i cant get to it anyways.

So ccp is this what you wanted?

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#2 - 2012-05-29 17:08:41 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
...Yes im mad and no you cant have my stuff, mostly because i cant get to it anyways....

I chuckled Lol

All those implications could be deduced by logic and were discussed in the weeks/months prior to patch .. we actually started bitching/moaning/whining immediately after FF when they presented the lame-brain ideas. They did not listen and barely responded in that period, what makes you think they will now that the turd has been allowed to fester and any change would require a much larger /facepalm'ing session on their part?

CCP are bogged down with mediocrity and ineptitude. They probably do not have a plan for FW at all .. they have said repeatedly that they are drawing one up but with game breakers changers like this recent without revealing said plan beforehand other than "use FW as guinea pig blablabla".

JIm Hammer
Sum Dam Guys
#3 - 2012-05-29 17:12:27 UTC
LoL Cry much? HAHAHA P.. poor planning prevents P..poor performance O7
JIm Hammer
Sum Dam Guys
#4 - 2012-05-29 17:13:03 UTC
JIm Hammer wrote:
LoL Cry much? HAHAHA P.. poor planning prevents P..poor performance O7
\


lol that just dosnt look right ROFL :)
JIm Hammer
Sum Dam Guys
#5 - 2012-05-29 17:13:50 UTC
JIm Hammer wrote:
JIm Hammer wrote:
LoL Cry much? HAHAHA P.. poor planning prevents P..poor performance O7
\


lol that just dosnt look right ROFL :)


Lets try that again....Prior planning prevents P.. poor performance again ROFL
Owena Owoked
Dedicated Individuals Committed to Killing
#6 - 2012-05-29 17:16:00 UTC
Maybe you should of been trying to build relations with the Caldari so that our blobs could come down there and help you out. Instead you decided to side with the enemy and shoot at us. You deserve to have nothing and I hope the minnys push you out of lowsec all together.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#7 - 2012-05-29 17:25:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
You guys need to just get off your butts and start using guerrilla tactics like Caldari did when we had almost no active pilots and were losing systems daily. Even out numbered Caldari was capturing systems back or flipping systems deep in Gal space because we didn't give up and we kept fighting.

You can't fight their numbers so accept this and get the Decent Amarr corps to get off their asses and spread out don't stay lumped together. This in turn splits up the Minmatar blobs.

Yes it's a bit harder to do this now, with the station lock outs but it's not impossible. You can still base in places like Akkio that is at the dead end of Minmatar sov space and you can contest the hell out of that end of their space.

You guys can keep ships in high sec systems like Amo & Audaerne which are both .5 systems and easily enough to base out of not to mention harass Hek one of Minmatar's high sec trade hubs.

The point being you have to put a bit of effort into it and cause the blobs to break up and sooner or later it takes the pressure off systems closer to your home or you just start capturing their systems on the fringes of the map and work in-ward.

Caldari captured systems like Intaki 3 times over the last 4 months and even many of the systems around & put pressure on a lot of out of the way systems in order to pull the heat away from our main systems we were trying to protect or capture.

Even out numbered you can still cause them grief in out of the way places that you now have the advantage in because you have ability to reship because you plan on fighting in that area. Had we given up we would be in same shape you are now because we were fighting just as out numbered. The difference is we didn't give up, we fought back.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#8 - 2012-05-29 17:33:57 UTC
Adapt or GTFO

nom nom

Dare Knight
Bandwagoners
#9 - 2012-05-29 17:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dare Knight
Uhh..... you have an ally? Why not..... ask your ally to help?

It's no wonder you guys don't have any territory. Nobody wants to join you because you whine like a nutsack...




I wonder if I should take a Gallente fleet over and start popping you guys.

People always complain because the changes "suck", but in all reality if I were at war with you, guess what you wouldn't be doing? Docking in my stations.

Broken? Or realistic?

_It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. _

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#10 - 2012-05-29 17:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Mutnin wrote:
Even out numbered you can still cause them grief in out of the way places that you now have the advantage in because you have ability to reship because you plan on fighting in that area. Had we given up we would be in same shape you are now because we were fighting just as out numbered. The difference is we didn't give up, we fought back.


This. Split up and fan out and get solo/duo groups hit and run and plex. The Caldari have better Warzone control last I checked, and they capture more plexes than we do, because they split up and fan out, despite them having literally no chance in an open fight.

You say you're the underdog, but it sounds like you're still fighting as a *fleet* and not scurrying around like guerilla fighters like true underdogs do. You can't be an underdog AND just sit in fleets all day, that's not how guerilla warfare works. But if you feel your side truly is the more competent one pilot for pilot, split up in small groups (5 max) and fan out. Hit plexes, kill enemy stragglers, and fight like a guerilla force.

One thing though: NPC balance is needed, I feel for you having to deal with the TP + missile spam rats.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2012-05-29 18:02:51 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
..lots of references to events from before CCP took a dump on FW .. again ..

Causing them "grief" does absolutely nothing other than allow for the accumulation of infini-LP through plexing .. (maximum of half what a Shakorite would get as they can solo any plex by the way).
Even if by some miracle, Shakorites are asleep for several days and a system is flipped somewhere in the sticks the plex balance is so broken that it will be a practical impossibility to hold such a system .. (ref: any system held beyond Dal pre-idiocy)

Reset wouldn't have helped much, merely delayed the current situation. Difference in plexing is really that pronounced, a small fact that the Gal/Cal chest-beaters can't seem to fathom as they both have stupidly solo'able NPCs and a warzone specifically designed for FW.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#12 - 2012-05-29 18:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Reset wouldn't have helped much, merely delayed the current situation. Difference in plexing is really that pronounced, a small fact that the Gal/Cal chest-beaters can't seem to fathom as they both have stupidly solo'able NPCs and a warzone specifically designed for FW.


Minors and mediums are fine, but try getting jammed for a minute solid in the larger plexes. It's not fun.

Question: Are the Minmatar rats a significant threat even in minor plexes? (Assuming you don't come in to a full spawn)

I do agree that CCP should have nerfed all rats into oblivion BEFORE these changes. But what do you mean by having a warzone specifically designed for FW...?
marketjacker
Mr. Clean Corp..
#13 - 2012-05-29 18:09:24 UTC
I fail to see the real issue with a war having a losing side. For some that enjoys trolling you certainly set yourself up here to seem like a whiny b*tch of a person. I'm not sure you get the concept of a war. It's winning. You joined the system, no one forces you to stay. So why not leave instead of sperging all over the forums (this includes all the Amarr qq'ers). You are like a person crying about how how it is inside of a burning building.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#14 - 2012-05-29 18:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Muad 'dib wrote:
...Yes im mad and no you cant have my stuff, mostly because i cant get to it anyways....

Contracts, man. Contracts.
marketjacker
Mr. Clean Corp..
#15 - 2012-05-29 18:10:01 UTC  |  Edited by: marketjacker
I fail to see the real issue with a war having a losing side. For someone that enjoys trolling you certainly set yourself up here to seem like a whiny b*tch of a person. I'm not sure you get the concept of a war. You go into to win. Turns out your side was bad, so you lose. You joined the system, no one forces you to stay. So why not leave instead of sperging all over the forums (this includes all the Amarr qq'ers). You are like a person crying about how how it is inside of a burning building.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-05-29 18:37:27 UTC
chatgris wrote:
But what do you mean by having a warzone specifically designed for FW...?


Black Rise.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2012-05-29 18:39:31 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Question: Are the Minmatar rats a significant threat even in minor plexes? (Assuming you don't come in to a full spawn)

Minors can be done in a PvP fit frig/dessie. Primarily due to ranges involved, 10km button and small weapons reaching only 10-15km .. can be a bit tricky when full spawn in the dessie heavy minors but not an issue.
All medium/majors are on the other hand nigh impossible to solo .. a few can be done in tricked out PvE boats or one can spend 2x the time sniping rats and going on/off timer constantly.

Compare the above to a Shakorite being able to tracking/speed tank all plexes without firing a single shot and never leaving button Smile
chatgris wrote:
I do agree that CCP should have nerfed all rats into oblivion BEFORE these changes. But what do you mean by having a warzone specifically designed for FW...?

Black Rise was designed and added specifically for Empyrean Age as Caldari had no low-sec to speak of in that area . result is that both sides were relatively 'even' geographically which has made for (looked at from outside) a much more lively theatre.
Amarr/Shakorite front consists of Amarr's double donut where any system can be reached in less than five minutes and the Shakorite elongated, snaky space where you need to pack a picnic basket to reach the farthest system .. add the long line of bottlenecks to the snake and you can feel your cheeks being parted Twisted
Bengal Bob
Slymsloot Enterprises
#18 - 2012-05-29 19:15:08 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Question: Are the Minmatar rats a significant threat even in minor plexes? (Assuming you don't come in to a full spawn)

Minors can be done in a PvP fit frig/dessie. Primarily due to ranges involved, 10km button and small weapons reaching only 10-15km .. can be a bit tricky when full spawn in the dessie heavy minors but not an issue.
All medium/majors are on the other hand nigh impossible to solo .. a few can be done in tricked out PvE boats or one can spend 2x the time sniping rats and going on/off timer constantly.

Compare the above to a Shakorite being able to tracking/speed tank all plexes without firing a single shot and never leaving button Smile
chatgris wrote:
I do agree that CCP should have nerfed all rats into oblivion BEFORE these changes. But what do you mean by having a warzone specifically designed for FW...?

Black Rise was designed and added specifically for Empyrean Age as Caldari had no low-sec to speak of in that area . result is that both sides were relatively 'even' geographically which has made for (looked at from outside) a much more lively theatre.
Amarr/Shakorite front consists of Amarr's double donut where any system can be reached in less than five minutes and the Shakorite elongated, snaky space where you need to pack a picnic basket to reach the farthest system .. add the long line of bottlenecks to the snake and you can feel your cheeks being parted Twisted


Veshta, you left FW.

Your corp for all their roleplay never really impacted on the Amarr miltia, or the Minmatar Militia.

When the going got tough, your corp found a weak RP reason and left. You will probably be back to lord it over everyone and RP in militia channel once others have done the work in bringing the Amarr back from the brink.

In the meantime, your and your corp are simply inconsequential. No one cares about has-beens. Stop cluttering the FW threads with your whine unless you have more than words to contribute.

Put up or shut up.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-05-29 19:55:11 UTC
From what I see the Amar do not have a game play issue. (mechanics) its an inter personal militia issue.

Caldari have managed take a page from our play book.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Nephilim Xeno
Order of Garrulor
#20 - 2012-05-29 20:28:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nephilim Xeno
I have no idea what CCP wanted to accomplish with this patch but definatly not to fix FW in the long run.

Or they are far more stupid than i have ever imagined..

So they just went ahead, ignoring all well known imbalances, bugs and exploits, and implemented severe consequences into the FW system that pretty much screws over the numeric inferior side completly.

Eventually leaving them no way to earn isk, dock in low sec and in consequence no chance to retake any system.

So combined with the original FW system, that already was completly designed against amarr in terms of ship balance, npc balance, system distribution/layout and the fact that due to bad racial role play design amarr milita has always been less attractive to players than any other faction, thischanges only aim towards one goal which is to remove the amarr milita (or any milita on the loosing side) completly from the game.

And if this was not the intention of CCP then it can only mean that the people of CCP are some of the worst devs, game designers and game balancers in game history.
Its almost as if CCP does not know at all how their own game actually works.

My prediction is that once the new and shiny effect of this patch has worn off and the supply of suicidal noobs on both sides has dried up, FW will be in far worse state that it was before this patch.

Fcs on the amarr side will burn out fast and no one will run fleets anymore.
After that Amarr Milita will probably become mostly inactive with the exception of a few die hards that will not care about plexing (since the LP rewards are useless with this store prices) and try to roam around in small/fast gangs to pick off lone WTs.

After that caldari milita will have to fight the combined blobs of gallente and minmatar which they will probably not have any chance of beating and that will slowly bring them towards the same end as the amarr milita.

Minmatar and Gallente militas will be flooded with farming carebears and the amount of stealth bombers running around low sec would blot out all suns IF they were not cloaked most of the time ;)

And with the Empyrean Age (imo the best expansion eve ever had) will come to an end.

Unfortunatly the only effective way to communicate with CCP is through the cancel button in the account management which i have used 3 times recently.

And to those the still cling to the hope of CCP fixing the bugs, imbalances and the promise to keep iterating on FW i can only say:

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

CCP never thinks long term and in short terms this patch might actually look like a success.
So they will be pretty much done with FW and hardly do anything anymore.

It will be interesting to see how dust514 will turn out since there is unlike with eve a lot of competition out there.

But since CCPs strategy seems not to be to attract new players but instead just keep milking their existing ones by making them buy more accounts (T3 booster alt, capital/super cap alt, industry alt, neutral hauling alt) and now even more games (dust 514) it might work out somehow for them.

And with this my final eve rant is over and all the cry more, htfu, gtfo and adapt or die replies can come ;)
123Next pageLast page