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Where does the Taranis stand now?
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Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#1 - 2012-05-29 12:00:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Gibbo3771
I used to be a big fan of the Taranis years ago but changes happen and things become nerfed.

I am a bit concerned about CCP's changes to frigates recently.

Combat Ceptor
T1 frig
AF

I look at this now in that order of usefulness.

I used to look at it like.

T1 frig
AF
Combat Ceptor

Back before the AF/rocket buff the Taranis could take on several different AF's with harpy and ishkur being the most difficult but what can they take on now? With the new t1 frigate the only thing that does not stand a chance against a Taranis is the Incursus due to that useless active tank bonus and general weak buffer.

A merlin gets more EHP, 180dps and good Kin/thermal resist, a properly fit Rifter has always been a challenge for a Taranis if he is not stupid. A punisher is soooo brick tanked it can wear down a Taranis most likely forcing it off the field.

The AF's with the buff, all of them have nearly 10k ehp 250dps at minimum, with good resists against the Taranis except the Jag which does low dps and meh tank. An arty wolf is just deadly and even an AC wolf does fuckyoudps. Its target selection has massively dropped to the point it is only Tackling Ceptors it can kill.

With everything bigger than a frigate fitting neuts these days or ECM drones, what can a Taranis really do?

I feel sad that this great ship as lost its niche and I am sure there is others who feel the same.

RIP Taranis, you will forever be my favorite but I must move on.
Nicaragua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-29 12:23:08 UTC
I would say that the role of combat interceptors is as anti-interceptors and i'm fine with that.

I dont think interceptors should be able to go head to head with AF's or even tech 1 ships that specialise in tanking.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2012-05-29 13:02:10 UTC
Wasn't blaster tracking sorted so webs are needless? If so then go dual-prop and your target pool balloons again to include more of the AFs, loads of cruisers and above.

Just stay well clear of the much hated Daredevil, bane of everything frig size, and you should do fine.

PS: Or start flying the much hated Daredevil, bane of everything frig size, and you should do fine Smile
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#4 - 2012-05-29 13:05:25 UTC
Combat Interceptors have a great role in killing those pesky Tier 3 Battle Cruisers. If you catch one of gate you can easily solo it with any combat interceptor if you avoid approaching him directly.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#5 - 2012-05-29 13:07:31 UTC
Gibbo3771 wrote:
I used to be a big fan of the Taranis years ago but changes happen and things become nerfed.

I am a bit concerned about CCP's changes to frigates recently.

Combat Ceptor
T1 frig
AF

I look at this now in that order of usefulness.

I used to look at it like.

T1 frig
AF
Combat Ceptor

Back before the AF/rocket buff the Taranis could take on several different AF's with harpy and ishkur being the most difficult but what can they take on now? With the new t1 frigate the only thing that does not stand a chance against a Taranis is the Incursus due to that useless active tank bonus and general weak buffer.

A merlin gets more EHP, 180dps and good Kin/thermal resist, a properly fit Rifter has always been a challenge for a Taranis if he is not stupid. A punisher is soooo brick tanked it can wear down a Taranis most likely forcing it off the field.

The AF's with the buff, all of them have nearly 10k ehp 250dps at minimum, with good resists against the Taranis except the Jag which does low dps and meh tank. An arty wolf is just deadly and even an AC wolf does fuckyoudps. Its target selection has massively dropped to the point it is only Tackling Ceptors it can kill.

With everything bigger than a frigate fitting neuts these days or ECM drones, what can a Taranis really do?

I feel sad that this great ship as lost its niche and I am sure there is others who feel the same.

RIP Taranis, you will forever be my favorite but I must move on.


Isn't the Taranis faster, smaller, has a MWD sig bonus and a drone bay?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#6 - 2012-05-29 13:32:06 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Gibbo3771 wrote:
I used to be a big fan of the Taranis years ago but changes happen and things become nerfed.

I am a bit concerned about CCP's changes to frigates recently.

Combat Ceptor
T1 frig
AF

I look at this now in that order of usefulness.

I used to look at it like.

T1 frig
AF
Combat Ceptor

Back before the AF/rocket buff the Taranis could take on several different AF's with harpy and ishkur being the most difficult but what can they take on now? With the new t1 frigate the only thing that does not stand a chance against a Taranis is the Incursus due to that useless active tank bonus and general weak buffer.

A merlin gets more EHP, 180dps and good Kin/thermal resist, a properly fit Rifter has always been a challenge for a Taranis if he is not stupid. A punisher is soooo brick tanked it can wear down a Taranis most likely forcing it off the field.

The AF's with the buff, all of them have nearly 10k ehp 250dps at minimum, with good resists against the Taranis except the Jag which does low dps and meh tank. An arty wolf is just deadly and even an AC wolf does fuckyoudps. Its target selection has massively dropped to the point it is only Tackling Ceptors it can kill.

With everything bigger than a frigate fitting neuts these days or ECM drones, what can a Taranis really do?

I feel sad that this great ship as lost its niche and I am sure there is others who feel the same.

RIP Taranis, you will forever be my favorite but I must move on.


Isn't the Taranis faster, smaller, has a MWD sig bonus and a drone bay?


Valid points yes, I fly mainly frigates and flying a solo Taranis around with the intended purpose of kiling tackling ceptors is much harder than it used to be. People dont come at you like they used to.

A Taranis has a slightly lower sig than an AF, it has half the tank however, t1 resists and actually less dps than its AF counterparts.

The only real reason to fly a Taranis over an AF is speed and that itself is not worth having your target selection reduced to nearly nothing.
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#7 - 2012-05-29 13:36:38 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Wasn't blaster tracking sorted so webs are needless? If so then go dual-prop and your target pool balloons again to include more of the AFs, loads of cruisers and above.

Just stay well clear of the much hated Daredevil, bane of everything frig size, and you should do fine.

PS: Or start flying the much hated Daredevil, bane of everything frig size, and you should do fine Smile


The daredevil is obsolete, its utterly worthless since the AF buff. Sure it can go 4km/s with an MWD, has a 90% web but that is not a good trade off for having the sig of a battleship and the tank of a ceptor.

I flew duel prop Taranis for years like I said, from my experience fighting a Taranis in my AF, there is little to no chance of it surviving, the AF's just put out too much dps and have far too big of tanks.

The bad thing about the Taranis as well is its hull tank, you cant repair that in nullsec like you can with an Enyo which armor and hull tanks but can rep back its armor, a Harpy that has shield recharge etc etc.

I just think its place on the throne has passed on, to something else. It was once the dramiel and then the Taranis got its rightful position back as the duel prop king of frigate brawling. Now its gone again.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-05-29 13:39:13 UTC
An interceptor has a role. Its role is not to kill assault frigates. It's more like the other way around. If you want to use a Ranis to kill i.e. a Harpy, that's fine - sandbox n stuff.

The term "combat interceptor" made me giggle a bit Blink

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-05-29 13:46:21 UTC
I'ld agree that the AF buff (which was needed but perhaps over the top on some ships) and the T1 buff which is needed and perhaps over the top on some ships) is bad news for combat interceptors.

The only thing they have going for them is speed which doens't help you kill stuff usually. Between new T1's, better AF's, faction frigs and pirate frigs, the combat intie isn't that good anymore.
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-05-29 14:14:46 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
I'ld agree that the AF buff (which was needed but perhaps over the top on some ships) and the T1 buff which is needed and perhaps over the top on some ships) is bad news for combat interceptors.

The only thing they have going for them is speed which doens't help you kill stuff usually. Between new T1's, better AF's, faction frigs and pirate frigs, the combat intie isn't that good anymore.


This^

Combat interceptors target pool is descreasing dramatically. Frigates WERE alot more inline comparatively. The class as a whole has been ruined for the most part (why even touch it? The most ballanced class of ships). The recent changed T1 frigates (3) have seriously encroached even into Faction Navy frigates. Other than the Slicer. Mind you, a Incursus does 20 - 40 d per second less @ the ranges a Slicer would operate, depending on the setup. There's a cost to preformance component to this game after you've gone threw your novelty ship and setup faze or just random bordem/try something different etc. The new T1 frigates can stomp all over all combat frigates, with in warp scrambler range.

Don't get me wrong. In the past T1 frigates destroying Interceptors happened often enough. The difference compared to now would be level of difficulty.

The Incursus, Merlin, and Punisher are capable of fielding near twice the E-hit points compared to combat intereceptors. That's new for the Incursus, but add being able to do 150 - 200 d per second.

Anyway. Adapt or die. You deal with it. Adjust to the new changes if possible and move on etc.


- goddess
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#11 - 2012-05-29 14:32:32 UTC
Yep already moved on from it, I agree with your above post but it is sad to see such a great ship go down the pooper.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-05-29 15:11:56 UTC
Gibbo3771 wrote:
Yep already moved on from it, I agree with your above post but it is sad to see such a great ship go down the pooper.



Because 180/200mm autocanons make those go like pouff in less time you need to spell it.

Now not everyone fits or has a 180/200mm autocanons in their gang/fleet, so Ranis is still a very useful and tough little beast. They will get some love, only hope this little beast gets tank slots and cap recharge/cpu to make it even better.

brb
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#13 - 2012-05-30 12:55:15 UTC
One day people will start going dual prop and using Null on the ranis and stop complaining that it's bad.
Natasha Hec
Croatoan Enterprises
#14 - 2012-05-30 22:59:52 UTC
From testing all the new t1s and generally with the AFs I can safely say that the target pool frigate wise is as follows.

Using Dual prop taranis.

Rifter (You only ever really had trouble against rifters if you didnt load null prior to the fight)
Merlin (Could be iffy but you are faster and have a large chunk more dps)
Incursus (Its like you but less in pretty much every area)
Punisher (Depends on the fit like with the merlin but if they have no neut then abuse its tracking and wear it down)

All Ceptors (The standard fits for all of these are vulnerable to a dual prop ranis with null)

Long range AFs if you manage to get under there guns should be manageable, although a rail ishkur would be problematic due to drones. Gal/Cal t2 is iffy due to natural resists.

Dessies are possible but again its mainly long range fits that you can take. i.e. Arty Thrashers, Rail Catalysts, Non Dual Web Rail Corms.

Slicers (As long as you can sling shot them you will kill them)

Dramiels (Could kill them before the Dramiel 'Nerf' so should be the same after, is still a close fight though)

Comets (Depends mostly on if he has a web/rails/first shot but it is worth a risk)

P. Much the same larger hulls you have always been able to take.
Neutless Vagas
Zealots
Rapiers (If you start inside web range or can get a scram on them before they web)
etc,