EVE General Discussion

I meant they should be good at one or the other.

Industrials will never be good at fighting, so make them good at running.

I believe most fits that give a Hulk a tank gimp them for mining, if they had a large hull HP, a single DCU2 would give them a good tank without reducing their ability to mine. (which is why they are out there)

OP, A plea for rationale for you. Now be objective please. My statement will not be loaded in any direction.


We agree that Eve is a sandbox right?


1.) Mining is designed to be an integral part of the eve economy and a nice profession choice for those players that choose it. There are specialized ships, progression, income...

2.) Pirating and plain old murder, regardless of profit or motives are also integral part of the eve economy and a perfectly valid play style as advertised by CCP. The eve box even says you can pirate, plunder the shipping lanes.... crush your enemies etc...

3.) The sandbox means both styles are very much legitimate.

4.) Concord is there to punish IN GAME criminals. Yes, people are actually role playing criminals. This is the beauty of eve. Concord is also role playing and are not enforcing game rules. This point is hard to swallow for a lot of people but if you step back and look at it objectively, that is what it is.

5.) Just like the sandbox provides means to those that choose to role play committing a crime (big alpha or high dps in short time ships) before the police arrives, the sandbox also very much provides the means to prevent being a crime victim. It does require learning how the game works. The person that may have acted violently towards your ship in all likelyhood put the time in to study how to be successful. You too can work out how to be successful in preventing his crime towards you, using the same methods. Learning how the game works.

6.) Demanding that one play style is wrong and it should be curbed goes directly against the concept of the sandbox. What makes you special? What makes me special or the guy who destroyed your ship? Nothing. We're all equal under the rule of the sandbox.

7.) Eve is about learning from your mistakes and adapting. In your case, as it has been mentioned previously, improving your hulk fit and awareness of your surroundings. I'll give you some personal examples of my costly lessons. As a -10 character undocking from a station I didn't have enough time to warp off before faction police webbed me and killed my tornado. A complete loss. Lesson learned, created bookmarks in line with undock. Other costly lessons, you better be warping to a new location as soon as your ship drops from warp as an outlaw in high sec, if in a big ship wait for faction navies at gates to spawn to web you into warp before that player interceptor on the gate can react etc etc...

8.) Losing ships sucks, no denying that. The thing is it's hardly ever someone else's fault. You make mistakes in pvp and die, you underestimate opponents, you mine in an tankless Hulk making you a prime target for someone looking to relieve you of it etc...

Not sure what else to say except that demanding for game mechanics change in your favor goes against the concept of sandbox, especially when legitimate resources are already available to you. You need to choose to use them though. Just as you may like playing in a certain way, you have to accept that someone else may like playing in a different way. In a way that may be in direct detriment to your safety. They are not in the wrong. You are not in the wrong wanting to be safe, but you need to ensure that safety as per sandbox.

Also a disclaimer that hulkageddon is not mass griefing. Some kills may be done for tears but so what. That is legitimate game play too. Don't give them tears. Hulkageddon is player content, aka sandbox. Propaganda and market manipulation at a grand scale. In what other game can you do that? This is why most long term player play this game as it doesn't have the limits of other "safe" games.

Best of luck in eve. I suggest you tank your hulk and get familiar with other areas of the game. You may not want to play other areas but knowledge doesn't hurt does it. You will probably have a target on your back for a couple weeks now thanks to this thread but do not be discouraged. It will pass. In the mean time if you wish to continue mining, go with your TANKED hulk to a system with many belts and/or scan down a gravimetric site and mine there. Most gankers look for the easiest target. Let me also point out that that is not wrong or dishonorable either. As you may be aware for example a predator in the wildlife always picks the easiest target in the herd. Often, just not being easy is enough to boost your survivability rate multi fold.

Fitting and Piloting, yes.

By that, I mean that if you are paying attention and have your fit set up right, you can escape nearly 100% of the ganks. But of course, that takes effort. And you want to be able to mine AFK safely.

Anyway, how exactly does adding EHP help a Hulk *escape* a gank? Looks to me like you just want to make ganks more expensive. Well the insurance nerf did that already, so why should we believe that you'd stop whining if the Hulk got an EHP buff?

I respect the ones that fit properly, but I also check the forums to see if they previously whined or gave CCP "advice" on how to "fix" the game. If they did, then I get a Tornado.

Posting in fred of pure win. I just coughed up a rainbow in my mouth. This is a game fool. A game where psychotic behaviour is one of the star attractions.

Out of 600 hulks and macs that we killed in the caladri ice interdiction not a single one was tanked. So I fully belive that 99% of killed miners have little to no tank fitted.

A cheapfit Catalyst is around 5m. 25m isk to gain ~10m in loot for a tanked hulk sounds like a great deal to me too.

EDIT: A Meta 0 Catalyst is 2m. Unfortunately it doesn't fit on CPU. Silly Scram.

There is not a single The Forge ganker that I know, who does not use 2-3 catalysts or 2 catalysts + 1 thrasher.
I know a mineral provider (which I also defend from gankers, figure that!) who has:

- The 22k EHP hulks fitting posted in another thread by a Goon or similar.
- Orca links, all trained to 5.
- Repair drones out.

This is not a sh!tty setup, that was not a weak link. This is expensive and long to train.

One morning his logistics friends did not come to RR, one of the known gankers warped to him and got 1 hulk of him to 200 structure. He would have killed it but another guy in a merc corp finished him off before the last shot.
All of this blurb to say, they don't need to be so selective and are not just able to go for the weakest link.





Exactly. A PvPer (even those who feel accomplishment at killing miners) enjoys a challenge and will just escalate. Tank has an hard cap, gank may scale up indefinitely.


What's wrong then?

Miners?
The fittings?
The suicide gankers?
Concord?


None of the above.


What's wrong is that on paper everyone is fair game as they undock.
On paper everyone has to perma spam directional and stay aligned.

But only a category is subject to organized hunt campaigns.

When something is "spammed" and becomes FOTM, usually it's sign something is wrong and needs a nerf. Be it incursions, missions, super cap farming, nano fits, Pax Amarria, reprocessable POSes all these things and more have been nerfed after they became FOTM.

Even decshield got so much spammed (for other reasons) that it got nerfed and now we have another mechanic.

Statistically it should be equivalent risk to get out in an Hulk or a deadspace fit pinata. The latter actually let earn 80M per hour blitzing the same hi sec L4 and you see one dead every 100 Hulks.
So what's the rationale at having someone earn multiple than someone else but with far less risk?

Why don't we see 8500 hi sec Tengus / CNR killmails? They are more expensive but also earn multiple, no?
Either make modifications to the game so that we get 8500 Hulk AND 8500 Tengu / CNR killmails or else it's unfair risk vs reward.

If using a covetor yielded 40M per hour and an Hulk 60M per hour then the PvP-like effort to keep them alive would be OK. But you don't gain 60M per hour in hi sec.

"Then move to 0.0". Oh wait why don't you say the same to the 10B mission deadspace fitted ship? Why don't you ENFORCE it like you do for miners?

government only needed to protect citizens.

If it doesn't do it what for it is needed?

What "modifications" do you think are needed? Your averatge mission Tengu has about the same EHP as a tanked up Hulk, and costs 2-5 times as much. If you want to run a 'Tengugeddon' event then go for it - stepping up and organising it is the only "modification" that's required.

Personally I think that would be great. LP prices have sunk dramatically lately and I could do with some competition removing.