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NAGA why oh why ...... couldnt we have gotten 8 torps instead?

Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#21 - 2012-05-28 14:42:20 UTC
Because it was about time Caldari got another hybrid ship.
Alara IonStorm
#22 - 2012-05-28 14:46:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Because it was about time Caldari got a rail ship.

Fixed.

They have plenty of other Hybrid Ships... Perhaps you noticed the Blasters still attached to the side of every one of them.

Though that expansion did some good to the Rail Rokh too I hear.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-05-28 16:35:18 UTC
Gallente
Primary: Blasters Secondary: Drones
Amarr
Primary: Lasers Secondary: Drones
Minmatar
Primary: Autocannons Secondary: Missiles
Caldari
Primary: Railguns Secondary: Missiles

Missiles were never supposed to be the go-to weapon system for Caldari, however, because railguns suck, that's how they wound up.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Lili Lu
#24 - 2012-05-28 16:49:37 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Gallente
Primary: Blasters Secondary: Drones
Amarr
Primary: Lasers Secondary: Drones
Minmatar
Primary: Autocannons Secondary: Missiles
Caldari
Primary: Railguns Secondary: Missiles

Missiles were never supposed to be the go-to weapon system for Caldari, however, because railguns suck, that's how they wound up.

A bit oversimplified.

There are the Khanid ships, Amarr missile ships. There is the phoon, a minmatar, second largest drone battleship after the Domi. And it is nowhere decreed that Gallente shall not use rails and Caldari shall not use blasters.

But yeah, to think like the OP that Caldari is and should be only about missiles is to have misunderstood the games thematic differences, which is not the absolute differences that the OP's mind appears to be comfortable with.
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#25 - 2012-05-28 18:52:12 UTC
Because we needed yet another thread on this subject? For us Caldari rail/hybrid users, let it go. You have the Drake and Tengu. Let us have the Naga.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"

Velarra
#26 - 2012-05-29 04:56:39 UTC
What if cruise missiles packed ewar munition variants? (re: a la stealth bomber bombs that have ewar variants)
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#27 - 2012-05-29 05:22:27 UTC
Cruise missile with their own TP! With stacking values (if we are voing to shietstorm, the why not going all the way?)

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
#28 - 2012-05-29 06:15:12 UTC
Why does every whine post get prefaced with some uninteresting and irrelevant backstory followed by premature ejaculation over unfinalized shiny stuff?

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven.

Asm Nihouyah
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#29 - 2012-05-29 08:54:55 UTC
I wasn't playing (had a break) in time Naga was going live on SiSi, so I couldn't test it with torps, but - looking at stats - it surely was crap as hell. But, unfortunately, CCP didn't try to fix it, but instead made Naga all-out hybrid platform leaving EVE with 0 (zero) decent torp/cruise boats. Raven is useless in PvP, and SB is paper-thin with only 3 launchers, viable only for hit and run tactics.

Imagine Naga as:
7.5% bonus to torpedo and cruise missile explosion velocity per level.
7.5% reduction in torpedo and cruise missile explosion range per level.

For skill at level 5 we get (torp/CM) explosion radius 281,25/187,5m, explosion velocity 97,625/94,875 m/s. For big signature/small to no velocity targets (like POS) torpedoes/cruise missiles were always excellent choice. With those two bonuses Naga would be excellent alpha boat (overpowering even art).

When it comes to balancing, remember that session change invalidates all flying missiles/torpedoes for that player. If you manage to destroy torpedo boat before volley reaches you, you'll receive zero damage.

Possible uses:

* Full gank, weak tank. Suicide gank ship for short range assaults. Maximum volley damage for full rack of torp/CM with 5x BCS II and 3x Bay Loading Accelerator I (launcher II, Caldari Navy charges) is 7472 @20km / 4984 @168km. Target painter+web make it easy to deploy full damage to any BC-sized hull, with great chance of coming near maximum damage for cruiser-sized ones. DPS is about 1400/850 from BC-sized hull. Defense? Gank-tanking with huge buffer is best option.

* BC+ killer squad. 1-2 web+TP tacklers in group, 4-8 CM Naga, fit for maximum RoF with decent tank, one Basilisk as logistic. Extreme efficiency against BCs and bigger ships (especially active-tanked BS). Vunerable to small ships and sniper fleets.

* POS bashing. Simply: better damage output than Raven, but with far less tanking ability.

Weakness:

* Missile flaws. Flight time, zero damage if session change occurs. Avoiding damage requires pure speed (direction is not important). Small signature radius = small damage, always (no chance to take full damage to small sig hull). Missiles can be overrun.

* Tank. Slot config like 8/4/4 makes it unable to both tank and tackle (propulsion, target painter, web, scram/disruptor leave no place for shield tank).

* Range. Missiles have binary range limit (100% in range, 0% out of range), you can stay 100m out of range for no damage. Also, torpedoes are point blank weapon only.

This is how good cruise/torpedo boat should be using tier3 BC as an example. I'd love having good torp/cruise ship (BC, BS, maybe even T2/T3), and Naga was first good candidate to that role while in concept stage. Right now large missiles are inferior to medium (HML/HAML), because of no bonus to explosion velocity and radius on most ships. I suppose OP wanted large missile Naga, but had no consistent idea about how should it work.
LadyJaye
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-05-29 09:09:42 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Another Naga/missiles thread.

I was there !


QFT~
Ned Black
Driders
#31 - 2012-05-29 13:42:03 UTC
Joseph Rumduddle wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
CCP has decreed that Caldari in general, and missileboats specifically, shall suck.Cry

Winmatards win, fly Winmatar, be a Winmatard.Big smile


Ah yes.

Seems there are two types of Caldari:

* The ones who look at the Minmatar and feel nothing but envy.
* The ones that for every question on this forum have either "Drake" or "Tengu" as answer (and are usually right at that).

What does that tell us? And what does it tell us considering the fact that above two vessels are missleboats?


It tells me that I was right training all guns AND missiles to T2... That way CCP can change the FOTY whenever they like and I just smile and change with them...
Cpt Cosmic
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-05-29 14:59:46 UTC
instead of giving the nage useless missiles, give it a small drone bay.
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