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BOND - 50b @ 2%
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LadyOfWrath
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-05-24 16:46:51 UTC
Have decided to do another public bond and will disclose a little about what the money is purchasing, but not details of exact market and indy operations which are supporting it. I would prefer a single investor, however if not possible i will take it in 10b sections.

Purchases
Additional character to increase current industrial operations
1 additional JF + pilot to take on the added logistics caused by the production increase
17b rolling capital for production needs
3b capital for facilities

Bond will be paid back in 10b sections. 2% will be paid to bond holder(s) monthly on the 1st of each month. Bonds may only be repaid on the 1st of each month at a rate of 102% Bond will last a minimum of 3 months with a maximum of one year. Bond holders may sell or transfer their bonds WITH notice to me from both parties for verification. I may repay a bond on request by the holder should the need arise at a rate of 96% else bonds will be repaid on the 1st of any month during the bond term as previously stated.

If you have any questions feel free to contact me via mail as i monitor EvE-Gate while at work. I will disclose more information to an investor who picks up the entire bond should they wish.

Bond Term
1 June 2012 - 1 June 2013*

*I may elect to repay entire bond(s) prior to this date.
LadyOfWrath
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-05-25 12:17:11 UTC
Have had a few inquiries, but nothing solid yet. If you have questions feel free to post em or mail me.
Chevalleis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-05-25 12:49:26 UTC
What was your previous bond?
LadyOfWrath
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-05-25 13:02:10 UTC
I believe this will suffice, also if you want a good read the most successful IPO in the history of EvE is within the thread, enjoy.

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=920653
De Guillaume
THORN Syndicate
Northern Coalition.
#5 - 2012-05-25 14:51:07 UTC
Am I right to say you have not had a bond since the one u linked
and
on this bond your not offering any collateral.

Has you ever went so far as chose to go even use want to look more like do?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#6 - 2012-05-25 14:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I might have some mental issues so please bear with me.

In the last 2-3 months we had plenty of fully collateralized bonds offering up to 8% or more.

Now, collateralized bonds don't even really need any trust at all, it's just cash in hands.

Then we get those mammoth sized bonds, literally lasting years, with no collateral and microscopic interests.
What's the economic rationale in them?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#7 - 2012-05-25 16:09:57 UTC
"Because I can" as far as I can tell. 2% is ridiculously low, even with 50b.
LadyOfWrath
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-05-25 16:20:19 UTC
The 175b IPO had zero collateral if you want to talk about things of that nature. I have never needed to have anything i do involved with collateral in the last 5+ years. No I have not had a bond since the last large IPO since i took a year off from EvE following Incarna.

I have an individual who may take this entire bond, just waiting to hear back. I'll leave this open ended until i get confirmation.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#9 - 2012-05-25 19:31:36 UTC
Welcome back LoW.

LadyOfWrath wrote:
the most successful IPO in the history of EvE is within the thread

That rather depends on what your measure for success is.
LadyOfWrath
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-05-25 20:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: LadyOfWrath
that grin on your avatar gets me every time lol Blink

I would correct myself on saying most sucessfull closed out IPO with returns.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#11 - 2012-05-26 04:26:05 UTC
LadyOfWrath wrote:
I would correct myself on saying most sucessfull closed out IPO with returns.

You don't have to qualify it in that way, I didn't mean to compare my scam to your legitimate enterprise, I was just saying that "most successful" is open to interpretation.

In any case, it was an idle remark and I wouldn't want to in any way deminish your achievements in MD or the impressive nature of the one stop empire you built.

We operated in the same industry for a long time and you were good competition, which I appreciated.
LadyOfWrath
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-05-27 17:25:16 UTC
Still nothing finalized yet on this. Will be checking EvE Gate through the weekend and be back in game on Monday.
Nerdy McButtHurt Trald
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-05-28 01:53:28 UTC
Did you give all your money away when you left the game?
Why do you need the cash?

The game has moved on significantly since you left and returned.
No investors particularly like risk anymore with all the scams.
As VV posted above most bonds now are collaterlized, and at better interest rates.

Open bonds with no end date and no collateral are very rare, and rarely work.



Nothing personal just changing times.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-05-28 05:45:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I might have some mental issues so please bear with me.

In the last 2-3 months we had plenty of fully collateralized bonds offering up to 8% or more.

Now, collateralized bonds don't even really need any trust at all, it's just cash in hands.

Then we get those mammoth sized bonds, literally lasting years, with no collateral and microscopic interests.
What's the economic rationale in them?

good luck trying to invest a few dozen billions at 8%/month

even if it were possible it would be a huge hassle given the size and duration of most bonds - you would constantly have to reinvest parts of your capital.

your economic rationale is supply and demand as always^^

.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#15 - 2012-05-28 09:42:56 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I might have some mental issues so please bear with me.

In the last 2-3 months we had plenty of fully collateralized bonds offering up to 8% or more.

Now, collateralized bonds don't even really need any trust at all, it's just cash in hands.

Then we get those mammoth sized bonds, literally lasting years, with no collateral and microscopic interests.
What's the economic rationale in them?

good luck trying to invest a few dozen billions at 8%/month

even if it were possible it would be a huge hassle given the size and duration of most bonds - you would constantly have to reinvest parts of your capital.

your economic rationale is supply and demand as always^^


Allow me some little math.

An investor could invest a few dozen billions (let's say 50B) at 2% and get 1B per month, right?

Or

He could invest 1 dozen of those billions at 8%, be safeguarded by collateral and get 960M per month.

So, one will be out for unsecured 50B and get 40M more per month than a guy being out for secured 12B.

I don't know about other people's preferences but I'd really prefer full collateral and to put the 50 - 12B to do something else instead of having them all out with no safety net.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-05-28 09:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Allow me some little math.

An investor could invest a few dozen billions (let's say 50B) at 2% and get 1B per month, right?

Or

He could invest 1 dozen of those billions at 8%, be safeguarded by collateral and get 960M per month.

So, one will be out for unsecured 50B and get 40M more per month than a guy being out for secured 12B.

or he could do both and get 1.72b/month.

MD is dead and the market for investments has become extremely shallow - it's hard to tell what a fair interest rate is these days (not sure if one could even claim that a "market interest rate" for uncollateralized loans exists given how few of them actually fill regardless of interest rate).

2-3% has been the long standing standard for "safe" long-term investments and I think a fully collateralized loan by someone unknown would still fill reliably at 5%/month (no idea why someone would pay 8%).
Remember that investors were very happy to loan EBANK money at just 1.5%/month.

When was the last time we saw a Dutch auction to determine loan interest in MD? I honestly can't remember...
The investors are probably richer than ever, good investment opportunities have become extremely scarce and yet most business managers don't seem very concerned with getting a good interest rate.

The other possible explanation is that investors withdrew from the market entirely as they have become disillusioned with the concept of uncollaterlized lending in general (but I doubt that - e.g. BMBE or Grendell never seem to have issues raising large amounts of money and I do expect that LoW's offering will fill eventually although I would have advised for an interest rate in the 3-4% range).

.
The mackem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-05-28 14:08:21 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Allow me some little math.

An investor could invest a few dozen billions (let's say 50B) at 2% and get 1B per month, right?

Or

He could invest 1 dozen of those billions at 8%, be safeguarded by collateral and get 960M per month.

So, one will be out for unsecured 50B and get 40M more per month than a guy being out for secured 12B.

or he could do both and get 1.72b/month.

MD is dead and the market for investments has become extremely shallow - it's hard to tell what a fair interest rate is these days (not sure if one could even claim that a "market interest rate" for uncollateralized loans exists given how few of them actually fill regardless of interest rate).

2-3% has been the long standing standard for "safe" long-term investments and I think a fully collateralized loan by someone unknown would still fill reliably at 5%/month (no idea why someone would pay 8%).
Remember that investors were very happy to loan EBANK money at just 1.5%/month.

When was the last time we saw a Dutch auction to determine loan interest in MD? I honestly can't remember...
The investors are probably richer than ever, good investment opportunities have become extremely scarce and yet most business managers don't seem very concerned with getting a good interest rate.

The other possible explanation is that investors withdrew from the market entirely as they have become disillusioned with the concept of uncollaterlized lending in general (but I doubt that - e.g. BMBE or Grendell never seem to have issues raising large amounts of money and I do expect that LoW's offering will fill eventually although I would have advised for an interest rate in the 3-4% range).


isn't grendell ipo with collateral ie why its easy
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#18 - 2012-05-28 17:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Vera Algaert wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Allow me some little math.

An investor could invest a few dozen billions (let's say 50B) at 2% and get 1B per month, right?

Or

He could invest 1 dozen of those billions at 8%, be safeguarded by collateral and get 960M per month.

So, one will be out for unsecured 50B and get 40M more per month than a guy being out for secured 12B.

or he could do both and get 1.72b/month.



It's not really a profitable comparison. Going by extension, I could also invest an uncollateralized trillion at 0.001% and add the interest up and make a somewhat larger number than yours.

Would it be a good deal to do so? No, it does not scale. Even in your example you get less than double for risking almost 5 times as much. Actually it's more than 5 times, because if you are the collateral holder (usually my case) then risk on collateralized bond = zero.

Having more cash <> "need" to invest it in a MD deal. There are other investment avenues and investees - expecially in game - that will happily suck lots of your capital.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Johnny Frecko
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-05-29 11:12:52 UTC
What's keeping intrest rates low in MD's is clearly the demand of real legit loans.
Low demand for lows, very low intrest. that's how it is.

I ran an auction for my loan and i got iirc around 9% monthly for one billion.
clearly marketeers can make ALOT more than 9% monthly, some people are known to pull 200-300-400% monthly.
So, if you can make so much, why are the intrest rates so low?
Demand for loans(legit loans).

If this were to run as an auction, Your intrest rate would begin at around 12-13%, and work its way down, it would never ever ever ever reach 2% though.

In financing theory intrest should reflect both the compensation for the fact the lender isn't using his money AND a risk premium.
You're covering non with 2%. sorry

and VV is right, absolute returns are useless in financing.
you can always buy a T2 BPO, produce some, and sell it. and still make more than 2%.
flakeys
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-05-30 15:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
The mackem wrote:
isn't grendell ipo with collateral ie why its easy


Grendell is the one who accepts the deposits for the loan as such even if collateralised HE has the collateral.So basically LoW is doing the same.Grendell btw only pays 2% if deposit is higher then 50B so LoW's rate is higher.

As such i do find it funny how this threads is full of how the rate is too low and not worth it while i have not seen such a discussion in grendell's demands.If LoW is trustworthy enough of this amount of isk actually is THE discussion wich should be held and i feel like some are 'keeping themselves deliberatly' from showing their opinion on this matter and as such divert it to another discussion.

And with funy i actually mean ironic Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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