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Mining Profession Removal
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Snow Burst
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-05-28 13:34:14 UTC
this is the most ******** thread ever... CCP will NEVER remove mining no matter how many people want it to be because its ******* core to the game... whoever thinks otherwise can go back to runescape theyre not needed in eve period

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3
Spurty
#82 - 2012-05-28 13:37:20 UTC
Vicata Heth wrote:


The problem is it isn't worth the isk/hr for you to mine with 3 of your buddies in logi. It isn't even worth the isk/hr for you to mine, unless you're doing it without effort (afk/botting). And it's that way because of botting.


No

The problem is you are dying in droves because you are chasing 2 mill profit at the expense of a 300 mill hull

You have to sacrifice a bit to survive

Check fit with DCU for another great fit

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#83 - 2012-05-28 15:24:34 UTC
Snow Burst wrote:
this is the most ******** thread ever... CCP will NEVER remove mining no matter how many people want it to be because its ******* core to the game... whoever thinks otherwise can go back to runescape theyre not needed in eve period


You never read past the title

Your trolling skills = noob

Your mommy wants her rent money.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#84 - 2012-05-28 15:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: bongsmoke
Spurty wrote:
Vicata Heth wrote:


The problem is it isn't worth the isk/hr for you to mine with 3 of your buddies in logi. It isn't even worth the isk/hr for you to mine, unless you're doing it without effort (afk/botting). And it's that way because of botting.


No

The problem is you are dying in droves because you are chasing 2 mill profit at the expense of a 300 mill hull

You have to sacrifice a bit to survive

Check fit with DCU for another great fit


Add's decent tank, still though.

I wonder if anyone with that new mid slot that is to basically prevent locking or break locking is efficient. Anyone with any experience?

Edit: For mining purposes, Just to clarify.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#85 - 2012-05-28 15:33:06 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Players have been killing miners since 2003, and they are still here. If it's profitable enough, people will do it no matter what. So while gankers may kill miners, it are the mining bots that actually threaten the profession itself.

But if you make it harder to find you by mining in a remote backwater system, combined by mining in missions or gravi sites. And you make it harder to surprise you by adding prolific gankers as contacts and keeping an eye out for combat probes and suspicious ship-types. And you make it harder to gank your ships by adding a T3 booster some Logi-support to the mining fleet and tanking the hulks (or even go back to mine-apocs).

Combine these all and miners simply won't lose enough ships to keep them in the red. But the min-maxing obsession of most miners makes them always try to squeeze out more yield at the cost of safety. That's what really killing them.


Indeed.

The only thing I have to add or question in your post, If it's profitable enough. It really isn't, I suppose its mainly for building ships/equipment, but the time/effort/cost ratio compared to other professions are a bit off. Yes I have/do mine in null occasionally for certain minerals.

Mining Bots got a HUGE ban, in the beginning of April, which is why prices did shoot upwards, kinda staying there. I'm sure there will always be bots, but CCP has done decent job gettign rid of a lot of them.
Dearthair
Goibhniu Industries
#86 - 2012-05-28 17:08:13 UTC
The issue I have with the "hulk done right" fit is that a maxed yield covetor actually gets better yield, and at a much lower cost, and can be tanked to about 7500 EHP. It might still get ganked occasionally, but it is far less likely to be targeted than a hulk.

NBLID (Not Blue Let It Die), the new motto for miners, manufacturers, and retailers everywhere.
TheBreadMuncher
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#87 - 2012-05-28 17:13:25 UTC
Llywelyn Emrys wrote:
It's PPS, not PSS. PPS stands for "post-post script" in the same way that PS stands for "post script"


It's a post-script-script. A script that comes after another script. Screw grammar.

"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.
Snow Burst
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-05-28 17:19:51 UTC
bongsmoke wrote:
Snow Burst wrote:
this is the most ******** thread ever... CCP will NEVER remove mining no matter how many people want it to be because its ******* core to the game... whoever thinks otherwise can go back to runescape theyre not needed in eve period


You never read past the title

Your trolling skills = noob

Your mommy wants her rent money.




whats the point in the thread... i aint trolling lol just pisses me off when people say **** about something they dnt even do

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#89 - 2012-05-28 17:22:00 UTC
Snow Burst wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:
Snow Burst wrote:
this is the most ******** thread ever... CCP will NEVER remove mining no matter how many people want it to be because its ******* core to the game... whoever thinks otherwise can go back to runescape theyre not needed in eve period


You never read past the title

Your trolling skills = noob

Your mommy wants her rent money.




whats the point in the thread... i aint trolling lol just pisses me off when people say **** about something they dnt even do


That's because the OP is trolling. He likes to see his own whine post.
Snow Burst
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-05-28 17:27:25 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Snow Burst wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:
Snow Burst wrote:
this is the most ******** thread ever... CCP will NEVER remove mining no matter how many people want it to be because its ******* core to the game... whoever thinks otherwise can go back to runescape theyre not needed in eve period


You never read past the title

Your trolling skills = noob

Your mommy wants her rent money.




whats the point in the thread... i aint trolling lol just pisses me off when people say **** about something they dnt even do


That's because the OP is trolling. He likes to see his own whine post.

lol 3 hours sleep seems to have blurred my troll detector glasses >.> lol

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#91 - 2012-05-28 17:27:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
bongsmoke wrote:


The only thing I have to add or question in your post, If it's profitable enough. It really isn't, I suppose its mainly for building ships/equipment, but the time/effort/cost ratio compared to other professions are a bit off. Yes I have/do mine in null occasionally for certain minerals.

Mining Bots got a HUGE ban, in the beginning of April, which is why prices did shoot upwards, kinda staying there. I'm sure there will always be bots, but CCP has done decent job gettign rid of a lot of them.


EvE is the MMO where you can skill up for years while AFK or even without having to log in at all except to queue new skills.
EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low AFK income while researching datacores.
EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low (sometimes not so low) AFK income by clicking PI circles once in a while.

EvE is the MMO where you could earn a low, steady AFK income while alt tabbed doing other stuff (i.e. work). This is why miners AFK. And in order to AFK they won't jet can (it's a can flipper magnet, hard to keep tabs on them while alt-tabbed). This is why they put expanders and not tank mods.

Mining can be done in non AFK mode, can be done in low sec etc but since the first day mining did NOT attract the active, mega-alliance cooperative and hyper-active guys with plenty of time on hands (= able to farm "active content" if red crosses may be considered active).

It attracted many solo / casual players / people who do other stuff during the day, expecially those who have limited prime time to log in the 0.0 main and play - no time to grind anoms / L4 etc when time is scarce, no money to buy RMT / PLEX ISK like many do.


The effects of killing miners with long coordinated events:

- removes the human players. Bots can afford continuously replacing whole accounts (including ships), of course they can afford replacing lost Hulks.

- pushes mining into renter 0.0, where they WILL bot and NOBODY EVER will catch them. The blues won't report them, roams will catch some bot but they auto-flee when neutrals warp in the system so it's extremely hard to catch them.

In hi sec it's easier to catch bots, because they cannot know when to warp away (neutrals are in system all the time) and the number of other players makes sure that blatant bots will be reported.


I am not concerned with the mineral prices increasing at all because my business is exactly to make a killing on selling expensive minerals I bought for cheap.
I am concerned with the obvious loss in CCP income (they manage to create crappy content as is, imagine with 10%-20% less subs) and with the obvious encouragement to safe and unhindered 0.0 botting, which is just sick.

I am also concerned with the sh!thead attitude of "we'll make the game crap for you till you homologate yourself to our gameplay and become another 0.0 moongoo lord servant". There's no practical counter to this and I hate homologation as much as I hate loss of freedom.

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Blabb3r M0uth B11tch
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-05-28 17:30:35 UTC
Pretty interesting post. I'm thinking CCP might need to considering buffing mining ships, specifically there tanks. I said might.! This could be a possible leveling for this situation. If they choose to do it, I would expect it to be done quietly.
Snow Burst
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-05-28 17:34:38 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:


The only thing I have to add or question in your post, If it's profitable enough. It really isn't, I suppose its mainly for building ships/equipment, but the time/effort/cost ratio compared to other professions are a bit off. Yes I have/do mine in null occasionally for certain minerals.

Mining Bots got a HUGE ban, in the beginning of April, which is why prices did shoot upwards, kinda staying there. I'm sure there will always be bots, but CCP has done decent job gettign rid of a lot of them.


EvE is the MMO where you can skill up for years while AFK or even without having to log in at all except to queue new skills.
EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low AFK income while researching datacores.
EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low (sometimes not so low) AFK income by clicking PI circles once in a while.

EvE is the MMO where you could earn a low, steady AFK income while alt tabbed doing other stuff (i.e. work). This is why miners AFK. And in order to AFK they won't jet can (it's a can flipper magnet, hard to keep tabs on them while alt-tabbed). This is why they put expanders and not tank mods.

Mining can be done in non AFK mode, can be done in low sec etc but since the first day mining did NOT attract the active, mega-alliance cooperative and hyper-active guys with plenty of time on hands (= able to farm "active content" if red crosses may be considered active).

It attracted many solo / casual players / people who do other stuff during the day, expecially those who have limited prime time to log in the 0.0 main and play - no time to grind anoms / L4 etc when time is scarce, no money to buy RMT / PLEX ISK like many do.


The effects of killing miners with long coordinated events:

- removes the human players. Bots can afford continuously replacing whole accounts (including ships), of course they can afford replacing lost Hulks.

- pushes mining into renter 0.0, where they WILL bot and NOBODY EVER will catch them. The blues won't report them, roams will catch some bot but they auto-flee when neutrals warp in the system so it's extremely hard to catch them.

In hi sec it's easier to catch bots, because they cannot know when to warp away (neutrals are in system all the time) and the number of other players makes sure that blatant bots will be reported.


I am not concerned with the mineral prices increasing at all because my business is exactly to make a killing on selling expensive minerals I bought for cheap.
I am concerned with the obvious loss in CCP income (they manage to create crappy content as is, imagine with 10%-20% less subs) and with the obvious encouragement to safe and unhindered 0.0 botting, which is just sick.

I am also concerned with the sh!thead attitude of "we'll make the game crap for you till you homologate yourself to our gameplay and become another 0.0 moongoo lord servant". There's no practical counter to this and I hate homologation as much as I hate loss of freedom.

intelligent post = win i take my glasses off to u :3

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2012-05-28 17:58:51 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Really - who need miners when there are so many meta1-3 items to re-process from missioners' activity?

However I foresee "missiongeddons" coming in case of mining disappearance so there is no point to start messing with mining removal - most likely whining will never end in EVE.



I don't... that might actually take some effort.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#95 - 2012-05-28 18:03:01 UTC
After miners are gone, should we remove missioners next?
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#96 - 2012-05-28 19:28:44 UTC
You can't exactly remove a "Profession" until one exists in the first place, and an activity where your primary decision making process is "which other game do I alt-tab into whilst my modules cycle over and over again in the background?" hardly justifies the use of the word.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#97 - 2012-05-28 19:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: EVE Roy Mustang
Dearthair wrote:
The issue I have with the "hulk done right" fit is that a maxed yield covetor actually gets better yield, and at a much lower cost, and can be tanked to about 7500 EHP. It might still get ganked occasionally, but it is far less likely to be targeted than a hulk.


Id rather use the covetor and replace them now and again. I usually make 10x the cost of the ship doing it like that anyways

Miilla wrote:
After miners are gone, should we remove missioners next?


and after that PVPers
Selinate
#98 - 2012-05-28 19:41:27 UTC
I made this thread weeks ago. It was considered trolling and was locked.

However, I support you in your get rid of mining endeavors.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#99 - 2012-05-28 21:14:25 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:


The only thing I have to add or question in your post, If it's profitable enough. It really isn't, I suppose its mainly for building ships/equipment, but the time/effort/cost ratio compared to other professions are a bit off. Yes I have/do mine in null occasionally for certain minerals.

Mining Bots got a HUGE ban, in the beginning of April, which is why prices did shoot upwards, kinda staying there. I'm sure there will always be bots, but CCP has done decent job gettign rid of a lot of them.


EvE is the MMO where you can skill up for years while AFK or even without having to log in at all except to queue new skills.
EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low AFK income while researching datacores.
EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low (sometimes not so low) AFK income by clicking PI circles once in a while.

EvE is the MMO where you could earn a low, steady AFK income while alt tabbed doing other stuff (i.e. work). This is why miners AFK. And in order to AFK they won't jet can (it's a can flipper magnet, hard to keep tabs on them while alt-tabbed). This is why they put expanders and not tank mods.

Mining can be done in non AFK mode, can be done in low sec etc but since the first day mining did NOT attract the active, mega-alliance cooperative and hyper-active guys with plenty of time on hands (= able to farm "active content" if red crosses may be considered active).

It attracted many solo / casual players / people who do other stuff during the day, expecially those who have limited prime time to log in the 0.0 main and play - no time to grind anoms / L4 etc when time is scarce, no money to buy RMT / PLEX ISK like many do.


The effects of killing miners with long coordinated events:

- removes the human players. Bots can afford continuously replacing whole accounts (including ships), of course they can afford replacing lost Hulks.

- pushes mining into renter 0.0, where they WILL bot and NOBODY EVER will catch them. The blues won't report them, roams will catch some bot but they auto-flee when neutrals warp in the system so it's extremely hard to catch them.

In hi sec it's easier to catch bots, because they cannot know when to warp away (neutrals are in system all the time) and the number of other players makes sure that blatant bots will be reported.


I am not concerned with the mineral prices increasing at all because my business is exactly to make a killing on selling expensive minerals I bought for cheap.
I am concerned with the obvious loss in CCP income (they manage to create crappy content as is, imagine with 10%-20% less subs) and with the obvious encouragement to safe and unhindered 0.0 botting, which is just sick.

I am also concerned with the sh!thead attitude of "we'll make the game crap for you till you homologate yourself to our gameplay and become another 0.0 moongoo lord servant". There's no practical counter to this and I hate homologation as much as I hate loss of freedom.


Great Post!

I have not noticed (nor paid much attention) any bots since April, but in all fairness, my time spent in hi-sec is small recently. I have roamed and roamed these past several nights in null (not saying where) and found 3 or 4 people solo doing w/e(not mining), but I have yet to see or even scan a single miner in 0.0

Its usually cruisers/frigs, or the occassional blob. This including 3 regions within ~ 75 jump radius. However, Time of day I play, not a lot of people are usually on compared to prime time.

I am hopeful (and actually optimistic) CCP has a good detection method to prevent botting.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#100 - 2012-05-28 21:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
Mining is a nice, laid back, social endeavor, thats good for laid back cooperative gameplay. Not everyone wants to login to gankermode everyday.

What's broken about mining is the risk-reward ratio now. It used to be more inline with basic low risk, low reward, but with current security level game mechanics, Concord mechanics and griefer alts, its turned into a high-risk low-reward situtation that doesn't fit well with the rest of the risk/reward game-mechanics.

In a lot of ways CCPs core game design as they originally intended are breaking down as the player base grows and cracks in their original game design are exposed.

yk