Warfare & Tactics

Good to hear your perspective. Reading the above I am not sure why you think we disagree.

I also said the station lockouts push casual pvpers out of the war zone. Either that or it will force them to spend their limited time online grinding plexes instead of pvp. I think we agree on this.

You ask why the systems near egg are not more vulnerable? Well I can say that I am finding that actually grinding plexes for occupancy does not yield as many pvp fights as roaming around. Many of the groups that had to move to Egg, do some plexing, but are mainly pvp corps.

If we have to return to a station we can dock in to reship - it potentially limits your ability to rapidly ship up/ship down. Hence you will potentially stay closer to your systems when offensively plexing.

As for the PvP corps - if you hit those systems hard enough, you will get fights coming to you when they come to chase you out and/or decontest.

Bottom line is Raa was lost without a fight due to station lock outs. If we could still dock in lost systems we could have planted a bunch of plexing ships there. That way even if we lost the system that effort wouldn't be wasted because we could still use those ships to start offensive plexing and starting to take it back. However with the current mechanic if we moved ships there it would have had a large potential to be a wasted effort and lead to us having to move all that stuff back out again.

(Docking in mehator is not an option for the low sec status pilots and even if that weren't a problem that gate could be easilly camped.)

I think its important that we consider the number of pvp fights we are not getting due to the no docking rule. I think we will find that if we could dock in the system even if we lose it every system would be fought over. Now its just a few systems.

Fact is if the minmatar were strategizing rationally they wouldn't even bother with sahtogas or kamela. They can already easilly get to level 5 for their lp store with the systems they have already. The only reason they would want to take those systems is for ego/bragging rights.



We are plexing these systems. Its just that after a while of orbitting a button with nothing but npcs we tend to say hey enough with this pve, lets go get some fights.

Maybe if we sat there for hours on end with no fights the minmatar might start coming with their large blob to chase us out. Maybe not. So what 30 hours of grinding later we might get fights? But what if we can't even match their numbers when they come? All that grinding for nothing no system flipped and not even any pvp. Just allot of grinding plexes. Sorry that is not really a rational way to play this game if you want pvp.

Quote above.

I joined FW to have "PvP available" but not really be commited full time. I have PvP'd for years and am just burnt out on it atm. I wanted to ISK up and just chill for a month or two. I did a ton of missions and did just that.

Along the way, I notice that many dedicated militia members kind of hate the mission runners.

Now: The mission LP have dropped in value, but ppl like me can plex for ISK, and the plexing helps the cause/whole militia. I put major dents in a lot of systems occupancy/contested levels. And I keep the enemy distracted along the way.

CCP need to add rewards for defensive plexing as well, to ensure people actually have a proper incentive to hold on to their systems once they've captured them.

Yea I'm still not a fan of the no docking in stations but we are able to work around it. It is however nice to see that the mission farmers will now mostly be plex farmers and they are at least useful to the PVPers.

I do have to say that I did expect things to go stale on the system capture side of things but seems with all the guys out their farming LP's for plexing the system captures are going to keep happening, so maybe it will be a ok change after all.

The down side is there is zero encouragement to defend systems unless you live in them, or need them for FW missions. This means it's still pretty easy and likely more beneficial to hold less systems, because you have less to defend.

Maybe the no LP for defending will be the new way things stay balanced.. When one side gets more than they can defend the other side will take advantage and things may swing back & forth at that point. Still too early to see how this will change over say 6 months or so.

I guess for now seems to be a lot of fighting which is good, so maybe CCP should just leave things alone & fix the bugs then come back see where everything sits in 6 months time.

Mehatoor is high sec next door to Raa - and has a station. The reason Raa was lost was because more Minmatar farmed it than Amarr who thought it was worth defending.

You're going to see tons of systems with no stations flipping because they aren't worth defending. Time is better spent farming offensive plexes elsewhere, or defending important systems like Kamela and Sahtogas.

Really Cearain, sometimes it seems like you don't understand the fundamental concepts involved with playing the FW occupancy game.

No. Amarr are short the number of systems we'd need to get out of Tier 1 warzone control even if we upgraded all of them. We were already short before we lost Raa. Without Raa, we're even farther from using our LP as other than toilet paper. We haven't a single system that isn't worth defending. The reality of the Amarr/Minmatar front is that the Minmatar won. There's a lot to be said about the ridiculous and artificial nature of their victory, but anyway the Amarr militia is defeated, have the bearing of the defeated, speak as the defeated, behave like the defeated, and although this may not be obvious, although there are efforts to disguise it, it's discernible enough.

For instance, you'll find that your opinion is widely shared by numbers of the defeated: see, although Amarr haven't the number of systems needed to escape Tier 1 warzone control, apparently we still hold systems that "aren't worth defending"; after these systems are lost, retaking them still won't get us out of Tier 1 warzone control, and even if we did retake them they would just be "not worth defending" once again, so on both counts why bother? And many other systems aren't worth retaking: if Raa and Saidusairos are names that elicit a "whah? Where's that? Lol, Saidusairos is two jumps from me and I've never been there. No, I won't defend that totally worthless system.", then Sifilar and Halmah are yet more obscure. Auga will fade into legend. Frerstorn may as well be on the other side of the EVE Gate.

There's no marginal utility path to victory. Each system gained is not really a gain, but a farming opportunity lost, and a defensive burden added - not until the magic number of systems for the next level of warzone control is reached. Only then will every system finally be "worth defending".

I guess I'll take your word for it, but in the end last week I saw one person (Cynthia + her alt) occasionally in Raa whereas I saw 10 to 20 in Kamela and Sahtogas at all times.