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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Spying on the test server

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Malice Redeemer
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#81 - 2012-05-26 18:29:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Malice Redeemer
As an outside entity, that has not watched a AT, has not been in a AT, and care nothing about AT.


I do not care is hydra plays, just an observation:

CCP Sreegs is acting like a child.

Grow up, and ditch the implied insults.


A post, in the style of Sreegs:

you may consider getting someone that knows what there are doing to post for you
Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
#82 - 2012-05-26 18:31:13 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:
As an outside entity, that has not watched a AT, has not been in a AT care nothing about AT.

CCP Sreegs is acting like a child. I do not care is hydra plays, just an observation. Grow up, and ditch the implied insults.


A post, in the style of Sreegs:

you may consider getting someone that knows what there are doing to post for you


His posting also draws out a clear picture of his "just" decision making process. The picture is not particularly pretty.

Blahblah
Kan'loch Lacoud
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-05-26 18:32:24 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:
As an outside entity, that has not watched a AT, has not been in a AT, and care nothing about AT.


I do not care is hydra plays, just an observation:

CCP Sreegs is acting like a child.

Grow up, and ditch the implied insults.


A post, in the style of Sreegs:

you may consider getting someone that knows what there are doing to post for you



I agree, CCP should hire The Mittani as a public relations rep.
Purpleshadez
Viziam
#84 - 2012-05-26 18:35:06 UTC
Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming



half fun of pvp is wondering

**Too Proud to Beg, Too Stubon to Try **
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-05-27 01:46:31 UTC
Open thread, I do. Read page one, I do. Standard entitled bitching...

SUDDENLY SREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEGS
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2012-05-27 01:47:08 UTC
(2:47:50 AM) Ackbarre: what these morons can't seem to comprehend is that sreegs hated all of us when he was our ceo
looMin uS
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-05-27 03:57:28 UTC
Too much to read...so when's the pew start?
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-05-27 04:53:51 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:
As an outside entity, that has not watched a AT, has not been in a AT, and care nothing about AT.


I do not care is hydra plays, just an observation:

CCP Sreegs is acting like a child.

Grow up, and ditch the implied insults.


A post, in the style of Sreegs:

you may consider getting someone that knows what there are doing to post for you


so you haven't read anything about why they are in trouble but you feel the next to comment anyways?
Just watch the match it's not hard to find

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2012-05-27 04:55:24 UTC
Purpleshadez wrote:
Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming



half fun of pvp is wondering


but they allready told everyone what they were up to last year. And then CCP made a new rule, created BECAUSE OF hydra. And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. By their own CEO now CCP insider.

That's hilarious.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Karbox Delacroix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-05-27 05:00:20 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Purpleshadez wrote:
Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming



half fun of pvp is wondering


but they allready told everyone what they were up to last year. And then CCP made a new rule, created BECAUSE OF hydra. And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. By their own CEO now CCP insider.

That's hilarious.


They didn't break the rule last year and they didn't break it this year.. CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together, the same way that Goons and Test admitted to sparring.
Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
#91 - 2012-05-27 05:50:56 UTC
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Purpleshadez wrote:
Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming



half fun of pvp is wondering


but they allready told everyone what they were up to last year. And then CCP made a new rule, created BECAUSE OF hydra. And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. By their own CEO now CCP insider.

That's hilarious.


They didn't break the rule last year and they didn't break it this year.. CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together, the same way that Goons and Test admitted to sparring.


This. Also at this point, trying to read up on the topic is hard, so many deleted posts. Leeloo's threadnaught was 25 pages 8hrs ago /o (Now 15)

Funnily a few pages of those are just our resident Goon Dev Sreegs' responses, that were indeed golden. I hope someone screen capped it all tbh.

Blahblah
Sendo Jarix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-05-27 06:52:03 UTC
Karbox Delacroix wrote:


CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together,


Then what happens if CCP allows it and this does happen.

CCP made a decision based on their previous history and their actions on SiSi, it's not that hard to comprehend.
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#93 - 2012-05-27 07:38:31 UTC
Karbox Delacroix wrote:

They didn't break the rule last year and they didn't break it this year.. CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together, the same way that Goons and Test admitted to sparring.


Ok, well let's let everyone do it then. Let's get groups of 6 alliances in a wormhole, in the same corp. It would be so much easier to have just a couple guys coming up with and min/maxing our setups. We could have our best FCs coach each alliance how to fly the setups. We could pool our spy agencies and feed counter-intel.

Do you want to go down that path? Cause if you think that is OK then it will not take very long for blocs to form and the metagaming will put the "little guys" at a real disadvantage.

Be careful what you wish for.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-05-27 08:15:29 UTC
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Purpleshadez wrote:
Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming



half fun of pvp is wondering


but they allready told everyone what they were up to last year. And then CCP made a new rule, created BECAUSE OF hydra. And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. By their own CEO now CCP insider.

That's hilarious.


They didn't break the rule last year and they didn't break it this year.. CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together, the same way that Goons and Test admitted to sparring.


They couldn't of broken the rule last year, the rule this year was invented THIS YEAR just for them because of the finals LAST YEAR. How is that not clear? It was the most obvious thrown match in history, is that wrong of them to cheat? no this is eve. But they were caught on live TV, and really hurt the reputation of the tourney at large.

And hydra agrees with me on that last part.

I'm pretty sure you barely read what i post.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Karbox Delacroix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-05-27 14:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Karbox Delacroix
MotherMoon wrote:
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Purpleshadez wrote:
Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming



half fun of pvp is wondering


but they allready told everyone what they were up to last year. And then CCP made a new rule, created BECAUSE OF hydra. And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. By their own CEO now CCP insider.

That's hilarious.


They didn't break the rule last year and they didn't break it this year.. CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together, the same way that Goons and Test admitted to sparring.


They couldn't of broken the rule last year, the rule this year was invented THIS YEAR just for them because of the finals LAST YEAR. How is that not clear? It was the most obvious thrown match in history, is that wrong of them to cheat? no this is eve. But they were caught on live TV, and really hurt the reputation of the tourney at large.

And hydra agrees with me on that last part.

I'm pretty sure you barely read what i post.


Interesting, it seems to have lost my response, oh well, here goes again.

Reading what you wrote, you still seem to imply that they were breaking the rules last year. See for example: And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. and they were caught on live TV.

Semantic pettiness aside, there is a substantial monitoring problem involved in trying to ban aspects of the meta game. This would be like trying to ban steroids while not having the ability to compel urine tests.

There are many Alliances famous for their extensive spy networks. Infiltrating competitors forums, corps, and comms can easily provide a substantial tactical advantage in the tournament. CCP has allready stated that they will not do anything to stop spying on the Test server, because spying is part of EVE. Well, there are many ways to get boring lopsided fights that make for bad TV and throwing a match is only one way.

It seems to me that when you have obvious problems with monitoring out of game communications, that the solution is to have less rules and to give up the appearance of an even playing field. Having vague, badly enforcable rules only enables the Bill Belichicks of the world.
ry ry
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2012-05-27 15:46:54 UTC
Okinata wrote:
What do you want, a private server to play on?

there is a private server, its **** and we're probably not allowed to talk about it on the official forums. it was also about 5 years out of date last time i looked.
Puskarich
The Greater Goon
#97 - 2012-05-27 17:31:23 UTC
Haha this here thread. We would practice with Rote Kapelle all the time and it wasn't an issue. I guess we didn't break the rules.
Doesnt matter anyway, qtiy are too poor for alliance tournaments now.
Jawmare
High Velocity Gamer Words
Covert Otters Venture Into Darkness
#98 - 2012-05-27 17:47:41 UTC
CCP SPREGLORD
Veruca Psalt
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2012-05-28 16:15:21 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
Mercurial Blood wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Mercurial Blood wrote:
Sreegs, in all honestly we can't stop you from acting this way.

But I want to address you on one point. From everything that has been shown and talked about, you simply MUST admit that there is a double standard here.

The communication you were able to give to RedVsBlue, but not Hydra or Outbreak just makes no sense to me.

I am obviously biased, and even discounting anything relating to the GM mail, how is it acceptable that no one replied to the multiple emails we sent to the alliance tournament team, regardless of how you feel they were vague or not. If they were vague, you should reply asking for clarification, that's how communication works. Not with "Oh, its those guys, screw them", just because you have a bone to pick and in your mind we have to be walking on thin ice.

Now I can't know for sure if this is just a result of a personal vendetta of yours, but from all your posts its sure as hell looking like it.


hey maybe if you guys make 3 more threads about it I'll give you the answer you want to hear instead of the same one I've been giving from the get go


You have never satisfactorily addressed why you (or the ATX team) never responded to our emails. I have been no-life'ing it here and I am pretty sure I have read at least 95% of all of your posts on this.

I just want a direct response to that one question, that isn't "I thought the question was too vague so it wasn't worth responding to" because that is nonsensical.


Stop shitting up threads.
Cody Zamorah
Doomheim
#100 - 2012-05-28 17:09:22 UTC
Sendo Jarix wrote:

CCP made a decision based on their previous history and their actions on SiSi, it's not that hard to comprehend.


Hmmm, does that mean we have to judge entities on their passt from now on aswel?
So basicly if I see someone in a Tornado in a fit previously used for Boomerang ganking we should ban him right away.
Since he has done so in the passt he will do it again.

And since when do actions on Sisi have relevance on TQ? I never read any rule which strictly forbids enemies on TQ to cooperate or even join up forces to try stuff out.
Yet based on something completely legit last year but forbidden now we easy jump to the conclusion they are up to breaking the rules this year.
But based on what premisis? They haven't broken any rules last year, yet it's convenient to assume they will break them this year.
Now please elaborate the intent on breaking the rules this year.
Which basis do you build your case on?

On the fact they formed a corp on Sisi together for easier logistics and communications?
Which relevance does that have on TQ?

The fact they asked and petitioned this several times to check up if this was alright?
This might seem as if they knew it might be wrong, on the other hand if they knew it was wrong would they petition to check if it was or wasn't?
They received an answer which might have been based on not complete information, but that is also partially to blame on CCP, yet Hydra / Outbreak have to pay the price.
Double standard is a word that comes to mind.

Since there was no rule broken last year and since a lot of what happens on Sisi has no bearing in TQ I see evidence build upon quicksand.
It's build on pure speculation based on guttfeelings.
Ofcourse several entities will claim this isn't the case, but the main arguements in favour of the ban I see are build upon the same false and incomplete premisis the whole ban is build on in the first place.

The utter lack of communication of the AT Team and the poor handling of the aftermath is surely something to be looked into. Even if the only result will be that in the future decisions are based on more than guttfeelings and conjectures and that communications lines are too important to be ignored or not taken into consideration.