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A Plea for Rationale in the System of Natural Consequences
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RubyPorto

RubysRhymes

Likes received: 5,663

#241 - 2012-05-28 12:03:02 UTC

Hroya wrote:

RubyPorto wrote:

Hroya wrote:

Good post pointing out that a Hulk definatly isnt a miningvessel.
If you would show up in a pvp roam with a crossover setup like this you can pack your suitcase and go home.

The yield on this multi million isk mining setup makes it more viable to mine in a tormentor.

Then don't tank your Hulk and accept that you are sacrificing your defense (increasing the risk to your ship) in order to maximize your yield (increasing your reward).

Everybody else makes compromises when fitting their ships, why should miners be any different?

Anyway, if you want to be PERFECTLY SAFE, mine in a Rokh. Now before you whine "But Battleships aren't mining ships, I want SP" and shit your pants, the Rokh is not required to mine. It is a STRATEGY that will allow you to mine with much less risk than mining in a Hulk represents.
With the new rigs and one Aoede, you can fit all the lows with mining upgrades and get 42k EHP. (Not recommended)
Dropping the Aoede for a Co-Pro, you get 92k EHP (109 if you OH as you see the gank incoming). (Recommended)
100k EHP, most of the Yield of a Hulk, and the insurable hull is 2/3 of its fitted value.
Both need a CPU implant, but v0v

You Sir are my hero. Why didnt i think of that, a Rohk for mining .. wait .. oh poops.
So if you are correct in your math here, doesnt it actually mean that a Hulk is really the piece of shite it truelly is ?
Maths aside, a Rohk is way cooler ( if such is applicable to mining anyways) then a boring ass Hulk.

And look at what isk goes into someone elses pocket when you build that Rohk compared to a Hulk and as you pointed out the insurance vallue.

The Hulk has a better yield because it gives up Everything else to have that yield. So the Hulk is fine and so are the rest of the ORE ships (the 1 laser T1 barge needs help, actually).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Asuri Kinnes

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 803

#242 - 2012-05-28 12:13:47 UTC | Edited by: Asuri Kinnes

James 315 wrote:

Kaeda Maxwell wrote:

(words)

What you described is emergent gameplay at its finest, overcoming obstacles by using skill and creativity, in order to carry out a goal.

Frankly, I *don't* give two ***** about the OP, but this is just hilarious...

I don't know Kaeda (don't think we ever met up when I was a pirate) so no offense intended for his/her/it's post - but flying a fast ship through hi-sec while being -10 (-9.8 or -9.9 in my case) was *not* an obstacle, nor *particularly* difficult, because there are *not* hi-sec gate camps with sebo'd people just waiting for the random flashy to fly through...

Using combats to provide a warp in is a *tiny* bit more effort not to alert your prey to your presence, but not in *any* way "skillful or creative..."

Ganking hulks/macks/whatever is *not* hard. Remunerative yes, but not hard.

baltec1 wrote:

Jessie-A Tassik wrote:

Boilerplate Goon lying.

Hulk's cannot be tanked in any reasonable way.

Fly covetors not hulks.

A hulk will tank a pair of alpha maelstroms easily.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Talon SilverHawk

Patria o Muerte

Likes received: 739

#243 - 2012-05-28 12:16:53 UTC

Mistah Ewedynao wrote:

Well this has turned into a complete goon -alt-a- thon.

No surprise there huh CCP ??

CCP hasn't figured out a good PvP mechanism so they are just going with the Gooons "Content". Wonderful!

And an ex Goon is telling how cool the completely fail UI is gonna work for us.

CCP you got garbage in u house. Clean it up!

Goons will.fight the change because it puts a spanner in Mittani's economic plans.

I mean why would anyone but a greifer really object to making hi sec a tad safer for certain activities, if its a case that its too easy to make isk mining in hi sec, what's hard about earning revenue shooting ships that can't fight back.

Tal

74
Hroya Likes received: 74	#244 - 2012-05-28 12:21:21 UTC RubyPorto wrote: The Hulk has a better yield because it gives up Everything else to have that yield. So the Hulk is fine and so are the rest of the ORE ships (the 1 laser T1 barge needs help, actually). Are you talking about a fully tanked Hulk or a full yield Hulk here ? I am no math guy, i do appreciate your Rohk input. You go your corridor but.

RubyPorto

RubysRhymes

Likes received: 5,663

#245 - 2012-05-28 12:22:38 UTC | Edited by: RubyPorto

Asuri Kinnes wrote:

A hulk will tank a pair of alpha maelstroms easily.

Because everyone *knows* that pirates only come in pairs... There is *no* way to tank a hulk effectively, because those people attacking (if they want it) will just bring "*tank+1". Industrial ships will never be more than "lol" for pvp. All the videos showing people getting kills with their industrials are funny precisely because of this...[/quote]

Right now Hulks are getting ganked by 5m Isk catalysts. If everyone tanked their Hulks to beat off 2 arty maels, Suicide ganking would be much more expensive and thus less common.

Asuri Kinnes

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 803

#246 - 2012-05-28 12:35:21 UTC | Edited by: Asuri Kinnes

RAP ACTION HERO wrote:

Oddball Six wrote:

Reposting baltec1's fits from another post because of thier utility, in case someone else discovers this thread later looking at a similar issue to my own.

Quote:

[Hulk, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

32k tank +4 implant needed
[Hulk, New Setup 2]
Damage Control II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Small Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

22.4k tank no implants needed.

There's going to be some dead catalysts hehe, enjoy.

"*tank +1" = still dead....
[Catalyst, Pure Gank]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I

Warp Scrambler I
Warp Scrambler I

Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

10 and 7 dead catalysts, to be exact...

371 dps with my skills....

Yeah, too bad pirates don't organize...

Glad us pirates *never* go in groups...

RubyPorto wrote:

Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Right now Hulks are getting ganked by 5m Isk catalysts. If everyone tanked their Hulks to beat off 2 arty maels, Suicide ganking would be much more expensive and thus less common.

Horsepucky, it never slowed us (me) down, and it hasn't slowed down anyone in the last 4 Hulkageddons....

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.


Hroya Likes received: 74	#247 - 2012-05-28 12:47:42 UTC Asuri Kinnes wrote: Horsepucky, it never slowed us (me) down, and it hasn't slowed down anyone in the last 4 Hulkageddons.... But the Isk, think of the Isk. It has to flow and follow the riverbed to the land of promise. You go your corridor but.

RubyPorto

RubysRhymes

Likes received: 5,663

#248 - 2012-05-28 12:48:04 UTC

Hroya wrote:

RubyPorto wrote:

The Hulk has a better yield because it gives up Everything else to have that yield. So the Hulk is fine and so are the rest of the ORE ships (the 1 laser T1 barge needs help, actually).

Are you talking about a fully tanked Hulk or a full yield Hulk here ? I am no math guy, i do appreciate your Rohk input.

Max yield Rokh (w/Aeode) has a yield of 2.8*8*60=1344m3/min
Max Tank Rokh (1 Co-Proc) has a yield of 2.57*8*60=1233.6m3/min
Max yield Hulk has a yield of 8.37*3*60=1506.6m3/min

None of these are implanted or fleet boosted numbers.

Hroya

Likes received: 74

#249 - 2012-05-28 12:53:44 UTC

RubyPorto wrote:

Awesome, thanks. So the Rohk is an oke mining ship if you take survivabillity, purchase, insurance payout into accaunt aswell, right ?

I am guessing the max tank Hulk is a good bit closer to the Rohk yields ?
Thank you for taking the time to put the numbers up.

You go your corridor but.

Asuri Kinnes

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 803

#250 - 2012-05-28 12:56:28 UTC | Edited by: Asuri Kinnes

Gorki Andropov wrote:

If you're as successful an architect/designer as you claim to be, why don't you just build yourself a new Hulk, miner-boy?

[Rokh, Miner]
Aoede Mining Laser Upgrade
Aoede Mining Laser Upgrade
Damage Control II
Expanded Cargohold II
Co-Processor II

'Dactyl' Type-E Asteroid Analyzer
Large Shield Extender II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I

Warrior II x5
Mining Drone I x5
My current mining ship - 115K ehp - and still could be taken out by 25 or 30 catalysts - now THAT stops ganking. Have to mine to an anchored can, but even *this* is vulnerable (i.e. - the cost to the individual pilot is miniscule if they {as a group} decide they want me...)

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

RubyPorto

RubysRhymes

Likes received: 5,663

#251 - 2012-05-28 13:00:03 UTC

Asuri Kinnes wrote:

RubyPorto wrote:

Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Right now Hulks are getting ganked by 5m Isk catalysts. If everyone tanked their Hulks to beat off 2 arty maels, Suicide ganking would be much more expensive and thus less common.

Horsepucky, it never slowed us (me) down, and it hasn't slowed down anyone in the last 4 Hulkageddons....

Last 4 HAGs, PEND was underwriting the gankers. Maelstroms cost like 20m to lose because of that.

Now they cost 150m-200m each. Tornados cost ~70-90m to lose.

Alpha is expensive.

If each Hulk were tanked and cost 100-400m to gank by mining in 1.0 to ensure that alpha is required, Suicide ganks would become less common.

Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 1,853
Richard Desturned Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,853	#252 - 2012-05-28 13:02:10 UTC Asuri Kinnes wrote: Aoede Mining Laser Upgrade Are you theorycrafting or do you actually spend 1b on those? npc alts have no opinions worth consideration


Hroya Likes received: 74	#253 - 2012-05-28 13:02:14 UTC 1 Pump the Volume You go your corridor but.


Richard Desturned Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,853	#254 - 2012-05-28 13:04:32 UTC also for those saying "BUT THEY'LL JUST BRING 10 CATALYSTS TO KILL MY HULK" you're kinda missing the point, it'll take more than one catalyst to kill you and they'll probably gank other Hulks hint: if a guy gets suicide ganked in your belt while you're mining, it's time to move npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

RubyPorto

RubysRhymes

Likes received: 5,663

#255 - 2012-05-28 13:06:31 UTC

Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Gorki Andropov wrote:

If you're as successful an architect/designer as you claim to be, why don't you just build yourself a new Hulk, miner-boy?

Gorki Andropov wrote:

If you're as successful an architect/designer as you claim to be, why don't you just build yourself a new Hulk, miner-boy?

The hell is that monstrosity. You've got 1bil in droppable loot that's screaming for a gank.

Asuri Kinnes

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 803

#256 - 2012-05-28 13:07:03 UTC | Edited by: Asuri Kinnes

Richard Desturned wrote:

Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Aoede Mining Laser Upgrade

Are you theorycrafting or do you actually spend 1b on those?

Wasn't paying attention and hit the wrong one - should be a meta 1.

But it would be *FUN* as hell!

RubyPorto wrote:

The hell is that monstrosity. You've got 1bil in droppable loot that's screaming for a gank.

I really, *REALLY* wanted to answer "well, i found 'em - are they that expensive...?" But I couldn't - just a misclick.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Dar Tel

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 16

#257 - 2012-05-28 13:31:28 UTC

Many here tells the OP what he should have done before he was killed, to adapt to the present situation with Hulkageddon running etc., and not come here to complain.

I still think he made some good points about high-sec. And I for one would like to see pilots like him populating high-sec.
Too much focus is constantly being directed toward PvP and what can be destroyed or stolen. And CCP also promotes this time and time again with their expansion videos.
OK. Eve is about combat and flying space ships.

We have web sites like battleclinic ranking pilots according to how many kills they have and the value destroyed vs lost.

But the fact remains, Eve needs pilots that focus on production. People that enjoys creating something.
Sadly, there is no ranking for these pilots anywhere, as far as I know. They are simply forgotten/ignored.

Perhaps Eve subscriptions are increasing year by year. But that doesn't convince me that the actual playerbase is increasing.
I have one alt. And the pilot who killed the OP also has an alt.
We could just as well assume that people have more alts, and that has been the reason for the increased subscriptions.

RubyPorto

RubysRhymes

Likes received: 5,663

#258 - 2012-05-28 13:46:48 UTC

Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Richard Desturned wrote:

Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Aoede Mining Laser Upgrade

Are you theorycrafting or do you actually spend 1b on those?

Wasn't paying attention and hit the wrong one - should be a meta 1.

But it would be *FUN* as hell!

RubyPorto wrote:

The hell is that monstrosity. You've got 1bil in droppable loot that's screaming for a gank.

I really, *REALLY* wanted to answer "well, i found 'em - are they that expensive...?" But I couldn't - just a misclick.

The rest of the fit's still a monstrosity.

104k EHP and better yield.

[Rokh, Mining Rokh]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Co-Processor II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
[Empty Med slot]

Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

Mining Drone II x5

RubyPorto

RubysRhymes

Likes received: 5,663

#259 - 2012-05-28 13:49:57 UTC

Dar Tel wrote:

If you want to produce things, don't you want a market to sell them into? Ships blowing up produces that market. Without ships blowing up, everyone will eventually have every ship they want and not need to buy anymore and production dies.

As for the subs, do you have any evidence that suggests that the average number of alts per person is on the rise? Cause that's what you're arguing.

Sunshine and Lollipops 27,526
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops Likes received: 27,526	#260 - 2012-05-28 13:56:27 UTC Dar Tel wrote: But the fact remains, Eve needs pilots that focus on production. People that enjoys creating something. Sadly, there is no ranking for these pilots anywhere, as far as I know. They are simply forgotten/ignored. So create one. The API gives you all the production and sales numbers you need. Get to it.

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EVE General Discussion

RubysRhymes

Perkone

Caldari State

Patria o Muerte

Royal Amarr Institute

Amarr Empire

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Sunshine and Lollipops