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NAGA why oh why ...... couldnt we have gotten 8 torps instead?
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longshots
Legally ambiguous
#1 - 2012-05-28 02:16:21 UTC
Okay before this gets the whole entrench yelling match gets going let me tell you of my dream.



I love missiles I've loved them from the beginning. I've used guns but there's something so fun about missiles

I don't know what but they are. I can remember learn very thing about them and what the damage was for each

size and speed of target I could hit it for. I flown HAM Drakes back when saying you were bring a ham drake on

a roam, everyone would ask "ham?". I have so many story's about them. I'd join a new corp or alliance and people
wouldn't believe what I said they could do had many an anger guns user unbelieving as I wasted his favorite

Setup.



Now I know missile have their problems after all weapons do. The they have to travel to target were guns are instant
etc etc.



But I think I speak for many pilots when I say this. I'VE HAD A WET DREAM ABOUT A T1 SHIP(or any ship)

THAT HAS EIGHT MISSILES SLOTS. So what I coming back after a break I which I had to take. I find out that there's
are new Ships in town my friends are telling me about them. I'm getting hot as I hear they all have 8 high slots for
weapons
And not only that they are design for LARGE weapons. Right now I'm drooling I have a picture of a BC rolling
in
on the face of a target WITH 8 TORPs BRIEFING OUT EAT IT ALIVE.... then they the say the Naga is a gun platform
................................................................................. I think it to my brain about 10min to express what I felt. I can't

Repeat it but it was one all very long mad rant.


Now here comes the part where we start food fighting.



Caldari are what I like to call a three weapon race some may not. We use missiles, guns(snipe), and ecm.
But
we are primary missiles users. ecm is the second thing we do. Last is strappin the gun ship for some sniping.



If you look are our ship in their class, theres kind of a rule you can see about us and our ships. 1 ship pre weigh/tech2

Class should be a gun ship. We already have several ship the can be fielded in the sniping role we didn't need
another
One. Theirs the ferox/vulture and the rohk(though I love missiles I love my blaster rohk <3).


so the naga falls outside this nice little rule and i cant tell why we needed it.



now i know ccp well never change the naga to a torp/cruise missile platform but it should of been one from
the start.



well this kinda of was a rant .... anyhow if you feel this way please please express your desire for a 8 launcher ship
for PVP.
xOm3gAx
Stain of Mind
#2 - 2012-05-28 02:35:59 UTC
To quote tomb from way back in the day...

Missiles were never meant to be a primary weapon system they just kinda ended up that way.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-05-28 02:44:27 UTC
CCP has decreed that Caldari in general, and missileboats specifically, shall suck.Cry

Winmatards win, fly Winmatar, be a Winmatard.Big smile
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#4 - 2012-05-28 03:18:27 UTC
longshots wrote:

But I think I speak for many pilots when I say this. I'VE HAD A WET DREAM ABOUT A T1 SHIP(or any ship)

THAT HAS EIGHT MISSILES SLOTS.
If memory serves the original naga had 8 torps, and it was TERRIBLE. I fiddled with the tier 3s when they were first put on sisi, I think I spend maybe 10 minutes with the naga because it wasn't just bad, the core concept behind it was so fundamentally broken that it was obvious it wasn't going to work.
longshots wrote:

I love missiles I've loved them from the beginning. I've used guns but there's something so fun about missiles
And there's your problem right there. You like missiles, which is the real reason you're complaining, and everything else you've said is just a rationalization you use because you want to make it sound like your views of what should be done wrt game balance stems from logic, rather than a personal, arbitrary preference.

longshots wrote:

Caldari are what I like to call a three weapon race some may not. We use missiles, guns(snipe), and ecm.
But
we are primary missiles users. ecm is the second thing we do. Last is strappin the gun ship for some sniping.
And there's another problem you're having. Caldari have just as many gunships as they do missile ships.
longshots wrote:


If you look are our ship in their class, theres kind of a rule you can see about us and our ships. 1 ship pre weigh/tech2

Class should be a gun ship. We already have several ship the can be fielded in the sniping role we didn't need
another
One. Theirs the ferox/vulture and the rohk(though I love missiles I love my blaster rohk <3).


so the naga falls outside this nice little rule and i cant tell why we needed it.
There's another rule caldari tend to follow:
The top tier ship in every class is a gun ship. Merlin, Moa, Naga and Rokh. Seems pretty consistent to me. See how easy it is to assign arbitrary patterns where there really aren't any?
Alara IonStorm
#5 - 2012-05-28 03:18:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
I think they should just create another ship.

The Naga that we see today and the Lamia built as a ground up Torpedo Tier 3.

Same model different role.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-05-28 03:24:10 UTC
Face it ... Torps suck ... Cruises suck.

Both seem ok untill you try anything else, just like that corolla seems fine untill you try an M5.
Robertson Nolen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-05-28 03:26:00 UTC
Torps suck without stealth bombers anyway. A naga at close range with torps would die in a fire super fast. I prefer missile boats , but realize that if I want to instapop some noob undocking from a station then I need my Naga.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#8 - 2012-05-28 04:19:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalel Nimrott
longshots wrote:
Okay before this gets the whole entrench yelling match gets going let me tell you of my dream.



I love missiles I've loved them from the beginning. I've used guns but there's something so fun about missiles

I don't know what but they are. I can remember learn very thing about them and what the damage was for each

size and speed of target I could hit it for. I flown HAM Drakes back when saying you were bring a ham drake on

a roam, everyone would ask "ham?". I have so many story's about them. I'd join a new corp or alliance and people
wouldn't believe what I said they could do had many an anger guns user unbelieving as I wasted his favorite

Setup.



Now I know missile have their problems after all weapons do. The they have to travel to target were guns are instant
etc etc.



But I think I speak for many pilots when I say this. I'VE HAD A WET DREAM ABOUT A T1 SHIP(or any ship)

THAT HAS EIGHT MISSILES SLOTS. So what I coming back after a break I which I had to take. I find out that there's
are new Ships in town my friends are telling me about them. I'm getting hot as I hear they all have 8 high slots for
weapons
And not only that they are design for LARGE weapons. Right now I'm drooling I have a picture of a BC rolling
in
on the face of a target WITH 8 TORPs BRIEFING OUT EAT IT ALIVE.... then they the say the Naga is a gun platform
................................................................................. I think it to my brain about 10min to express what I felt. I can't

Repeat it but it was one all very long mad rant.


Now here comes the part where we start food fighting.



Caldari are what I like to call a three weapon race some may not. We use missiles, guns(snipe), and ecm.
But
we are primary missiles users. ecm is the second thing we do. Last is strappin the gun ship for some sniping.



If you look are our ship in their class, theres kind of a rule you can see about us and our ships. 1 ship pre weigh/tech2

Class should be a gun ship. We already have several ship the can be fielded in the sniping role we didn't need
another
One. Theirs the ferox/vulture and the rohk(though I love missiles I love my blaster rohk <3).


so the naga falls outside this nice little rule and i cant tell why we needed it.



now i know ccp well never change the naga to a torp/cruise missile platform but it should of been one from
the start.



well this kinda of was a rant .... anyhow if you feel this way please please express your desire for a 8 launcher ship
for PVP.

Reading this hurts your eyes


Naga with neutron blaster II should be feared, if you are a BC.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#9 - 2012-05-28 07:49:36 UTC
I always laugh at caldari pilots who slate minmatar for being OP. Buy a tengu, then complain your bad.
Liam Mirren
#10 - 2012-05-28 07:55:18 UTC
The Naga is all kinds of awesome in its current form, wishing for torps shows that you have zero clue on how this game actually works.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-05-28 08:00:11 UTC
Sure, give it Torpedoes. Would complete the whole submarine look that ship has going for it!

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-05-28 08:12:00 UTC
So you're saying they should replace a good caldari hybrid ship with an awful missile ship?
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#13 - 2012-05-28 09:10:26 UTC
longshots wrote:
But I think I speak for many pilots when I say this. I'VE HAD A WET DREAM ABOUT A T1 SHIP(or any ship)

THAT HAS EIGHT MISSILES SLOTS.


I dream of a ship like that occasionally. Usually, I wake up screaming in terror and need something to sedate myself before I can go back to sleep.

If you want to know how much a torpedo boat with eight missile slots sucks, even if it has heavy bonuses, fly a Golem for a while.

And any T1 hull will suck even worse than that due to having fewer bonuses.
Vito Antonio
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-05-28 09:23:51 UTC
Just let it go man, ccp doesn't like missiles so don't bother.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-05-28 09:27:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
Just theoretically speaking; what if it were Cruise Missile Launchers instead?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-05-28 09:43:13 UTC
Another Naga/missiles thread.

I was there !

brb
Liam Mirren
#17 - 2012-05-28 09:53:17 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Just theoretically speaking; what if it were Cruise Missile Launchers instead?


The ship is no good at pve due to lack of drones and tank, and in pvp cruise missiles suck.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Alara IonStorm
#18 - 2012-05-28 10:05:46 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Just theoretically speaking; what if it were Cruise Missile Launchers instead?


The ship is no good at pve due to lack of drones and tank, and in pvp cruise missiles suck.

This is where the Cruise argument kinda goes off the rails for the Naga. What ships use... or lets just say don't use Cruise Missiles in PvP.

The Raven which as a Ship has the following problems a Naga would otherwise not have.

* You can not exaggerate how bad its Scan Res is for a Battleship if you tried. With six mids not much room for a Sebo ether.
* It has six Launchers where the Naga has 8.
* It is very, very slow where the Naga is very not slow.
* It caps out with that Heavy Micro Warp Drive quickly for little speed where the Naga would not. With Six Mids not much room for a Cap Booster either. Especially with the MWD and Sebo.
* Has the Agility of an Elephant compared to the much better off Naga.

All that means is a Cruise Naga is not the same as the Missiles we have now and in fact would be quite different.

Not that I want the rail Naga gone but as I indicated earlier a Missile version of the ship would be worth exploring because with the right bonuses and tweaks it won't have the same difficulties as its big and developmentally disabled brother the Raven which less face it is not a shining example for large Missile use.
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-05-28 12:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Fleet Warpsujarento
Seems like none of the people who are screaming for a torp Naga ever flew one when they were actually on SiSi. I did. They were terrible. Range was poor (<50km ), applied DPS was weak, travel time on the missiles was infuriating, and the ship was far too squishy to be engaging at such close quarters.

It was like a slow stealth bomber with a massive sig radius and no cloak.
Joseph Rumduddle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-05-28 13:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Joseph Rumduddle
sabre906 wrote:
CCP has decreed that Caldari in general, and missileboats specifically, shall suck.Cry

Winmatards win, fly Winmatar, be a Winmatard.Big smile


Ah yes.

Seems there are two types of Caldari:

* The ones who look at the Minmatar and feel nothing but envy.
* The ones that for every question on this forum have either "Drake" or "Tengu" as answer (and are usually right at that).

What does that tell us? And what does it tell us considering the fact that above two vessels are missleboats?
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