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Mining Profession Removal
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Price Check Aisle3
#21 - 2012-05-28 00:13:31 UTC
All miners must pay.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#22 - 2012-05-28 00:26:47 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
It's a shame that some people sign up for this game and do nothing but mine all day and never even seem to bother trying to learn other part of the game to figure out ways to defend themselves and their interests, they'd just rather bleat on the forums for CCP to protect them instead of actually getting of their backsides and doing something themselves like the ones who are actually capable of doing that.

It's more like the ones that don't whine are freeloading off the whiners because they also benefit from improved concord response time, buffs to hulks (if they occur as whined for) and other such bonuses, without having to type out long whine posts.

Do your part, guys, whine in unison. From each according to his posting ability ! To each according to his yield vs tank tradeoff!


This is true as well, those ones just keep their heads down hoping not to be noticed. Those that bother to accept that even though they may not actually be active combat pilots it still helps to understand the mechanics involved in order to protect themselves.

To those others who don't want to or don't think they need to try and learn other parts of the game, my message to you is simple: just because it's a sandbox doesn't mean you have to bury your head in the sand.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#23 - 2012-05-28 00:27:49 UTC
Shian Yang wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:
Do we really need this profession? Miners seem to be the primary targets in hi/low/null sec by other players, the rewards compared to any other profession are terrible. You can refine everything from mission drops for minerals, not that missioners don't get ganked, but certainly no where near the mining populous since missioners have actual tanking abilities.


Greetings capsuleer,

I sincerely hope you never get a fly in your ship. Self destructing it would be gross overkill.

Regards,

Shian Yang

P.S. That means I think you are looking at a small problem regarding tanking and surviving that miners seem to ignore at will that has been discussed at length and you're suggesting solving it by removing Mining. Overkill.


could not agree with you more, honestly.

I suppose the question is, what (if anything) can we do to either make it more lucrative for miners having one of the most dangerous professions.

I played this game for almost 8 years, never been ganked in anything but a hulk (only once) and I was not afk either.

The payout for what I was mining sucks, yes prices went up, but still sucks if you compare it to other professions.

Maybe remove hi sec mining, or buff exhumers tanks, or add expensive new asteriods to mine.

Somehow I feel its broken, and the only reason to do it, is simply to multitask while doing other activities.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-05-28 00:49:28 UTC
Get rid of mission runners as well as they are constantly ganked as well and as every nullsec boy will tell you . Level 4 missions are for chumps
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#25 - 2012-05-28 00:51:31 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
Not all miners are the clueless dolts we tend to see complaining about having their 300 mill untanked hulk blown up, they're just the ones who don't seem to ever learn much beyond how to activate a mining laser and haul their precious ore. There are miners out there who aren't evernoobs and actually bother to learn about how the rest of the game works, those are the ones who know how to take care of themselves and their ships.

It's a shame that some people sign up for this game and do nothing but mine all day and never even seem to bother trying to learn other part of the game to figure out ways to defend themselves and their interests, they'd just rather bleat on the forums for CCP to protect them instead of actually getting of their backsides and doing something themselves like the ones who are actually capable of doing that.



You know, honestly, nothing in your post I can disagree with.

When I was ganked in my hulk I didnt emo or rage on the forums, I did ***** at my friends thought about it.

Point is, it did teach me an important lesson in both, yes dont fit for max mining or hauling, but max tank itself.

I was a mission runner long before a miner, and the expensive hulk loss was a lesson that taught me to tank instead.

Learning that saved me 3 or 4 more attempts on my 2nd hulk being ganked.

It also curbed my reason for mining. If I have more of a chance in dying mining, why not just mission instead? Level 4 missions gave lot more reward than mining in a hulk and less chance of being ganked. Reason I wondered about why even have mining profession, or least way we could bring it up to par with the other activities.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#26 - 2012-05-28 00:56:08 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Get rid of mission runners as well as they are constantly ganked as well and as every nullsec boy will tell you . Level 4 missions are for chumps


Only mission runners i know that have been ganked, was because they had pith A equipment all over their ship and was very opportune for the gankers to make some money.

Ganking a mission ship, takes a lot more coordination than ganking a mining barge/exhumer.

Sure 8 or 10 torp ravens could gank a 6 or 7 billion golem at a heavy price, usually its miners for grief or transports for cargo.

Or even worst, a 6 or 7 billion tengu getting ganked by 7 or 8 hurricanes.

Mission gankers are the low end of the totem pole. When 5000 golems/cnr/sni start getting ganked, I wonder what truely would happen to the game at that point.

But this is off topic and perhaps you could start a thread about it.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-05-28 01:04:05 UTC
bongsmoke wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:
Get rid of mission runners as well as they are constantly ganked as well and as every nullsec boy will tell you . Level 4 missions are for chumps


Only mission runners i know that have been ganked, was because they had pith A equipment all over their ship and was very opportune for the gankers to make some money.

Ganking a mission ship, takes a lot more coordination than ganking a mining barge/exhumer.

Sure 8 or 10 torp ravens could gank a 6 or 7 billion golem at a heavy price, usually its miners for grief or transports for cargo.

Or even worst, a 6 or 7 billion tengu getting ganked by 7 or 8 hurricanes.

Mission gankers are the low end of the totem pole. When 5000 golems/cnr/sni start getting ganked, I wonder what truely would happen to the game at that point.

But this is off topic and perhaps you could start a thread about it.



I should really invoke Poe's law on this one.
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#28 - 2012-05-28 01:04:24 UTC  |  Edited by: No More Heroes
Thousands of miners are completely unaffected and can't be arsed to even think twice about Hulkageddon. Why? Because they tank their ships, they don't mine afk and have a modicum of common sense. So no, this 'great outcry' from miners is nothing but a hundred or so bad players/ forum warriors.

Life goes on.

.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#29 - 2012-05-28 01:07:19 UTC

Quote:
I should really invoke Poe's law on this one


Sorry, could you clarify for me please?
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#30 - 2012-05-28 01:08:59 UTC
@bongsmoke

If you are seriously worried about the ganking of miners go around and educated them on how to properly tank their ships. Most of the miners getting popped have zero - no tank on their ships at all. The mods and rigs they do put on removes armor! Not smart. A well tanked ship will be looked over by a solo ganker and if the miner is in a well tanked ship and it requires a decent sized gank team many of them are left alone.

BTW if you look at the killboards you'll see that the ships being ganked 90% of the time have just a wee bit over 1000 ehp. A volley from a catalyst or a thrasher is all it takes to pop one. That is insanely silly. Tank your ship and you'll be less likely to attract the attention of a ganker.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#31 - 2012-05-28 01:09:09 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
Thousands of miners are completely unaffected and can't be arsed to even think twice about Hulkageddon. Why? Because they tank their ships, they don't mine afk and have have a modicum of common sense. So no, this 'great outcry' from miners is nothing but a hundred or so bad players/ forum warriors.

Life goes on.


Yeah, thats your opinion, but also your corp is part of the problem in the overall scheme of this thread even existing. I certainly wouldnt think you want it to go bye bye, half you guys would not have anything else to do.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#32 - 2012-05-28 01:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: bongsmoke
Ginseng Jita wrote:
@bongsmoke

If you are seriously worried about the ganking of miners go around and educated them on how to properly tank their ships. Most of the miners getting popped have zero - no tank on their ships at all. The mods and rigs they do put on removes armor! Not smart. A well tanked ship will be looked over by a solo ganker and if the miner is in a well tanked ship and it requires a decent sized gank team many of them are left alone.

BTW if you look at the killboards you'll see that the ships being ganked 90% of the time have just a wee bit over 1000 ehp. A volley from a catalyst or a thrasher is all it takes to pop one. That is insanely silly. Tank your ship and you'll be less likely to attract the attention of a ganker.


Even with max skills and the best possible tank you can fix on a hulk(T2 wise), a single max skilled hurricane can blow him/her out of space in .5 space including overheating systems.

Edit: Ipad's wonderful spell correction sucks sometimes.
Oddball Six
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-05-28 01:13:40 UTC
bongsmoke wrote:
I do not want to see this, but since the outcry of hulkaggedon(however you spell it), and the response of players.

Do we really need this profession? Miners seem to be the primary targets in hi/low/null sec by other players, the rewards compared to any other profession are terrible. You can refine everything from mission drops for minerals, not that missioners don't get ganked, but certainly no where near the mining populous since missioners have actual tanking abilities.

I'm certain indy corps would be against this, but on these forums, they are the 'minority' compared to the grievers.



To make sure I understand, do you posit that removing the miners, the sole source of minerals then becomes reprocessed garbage?

The amount of minerals needed to build would have to be completely rebuilt and re-balanced as would the way those materials are generated. And the way that players have put points in those skills would need to be addressed. And the way that current players have built fits would have to be addressed.

And at the end of the day CCP would have to decide how it feels about the cost to the player base. My guess is that they cant afford to take the hit to the cash cow with the golden milk.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#34 - 2012-05-28 01:22:37 UTC
Oddball Six wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:
I do not want to see this, but since the outcry of hulkaggedon(however you spell it), and the response of players.

Do we really need this profession? Miners seem to be the primary targets in hi/low/null sec by other players, the rewards compared to any other profession are terrible. You can refine everything from mission drops for minerals, not that missioners don't get ganked, but certainly no where near the mining populous since missioners have actual tanking abilities.

I'm certain indy corps would be against this, but on these forums, they are the 'minority' compared to the grievers.



To make sure I understand, do you posit that removing the miners, the sole source of minerals then becomes reprocessed garbage?

The amount of minerals needed to build would have to be completely rebuilt and re-balanced as would the way those materials are generated. And the way that players have put points in those skills would need to be addressed. And the way that current players have built fits would have to be addressed.

And at the end of the day CCP would have to decide how it feels about the cost to the player base. My guess is that they cant afford to take the hit to the cash cow with the golden milk.


Would you say the mining profession is alive and well, and miners are happy with the current status quo? You are correct if removing the profession would completely change the game, and I am not suggesting that, but I am suggesting something is broken with mining being the lowest paid profession with the highest risk.

If miners are CCP cash cow, whats the difference in ganking them so they rage quit (not linking 7,345,432 forums of miners crying) or remove the profession all together?

The title which most people seem to respond to as opposed to the actual post is just bait for people whom care about the profession.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#35 - 2012-05-28 01:29:29 UTC
bongsmoke wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
@bongsmoke

If you are seriously worried about the ganking of miners go around and educated them on how to properly tank their ships. Most of the miners getting popped have zero - no tank on their ships at all. The mods and rigs they do put on removes armor! Not smart. A well tanked ship will be looked over by a solo ganker and if the miner is in a well tanked ship and it requires a decent sized gank team many of them are left alone.

BTW if you look at the killboards you'll see that the ships being ganked 90% of the time have just a wee bit over 1000 ehp. A volley from a catalyst or a thrasher is all it takes to pop one. That is insanely silly. Tank your ship and you'll be less likely to attract the attention of a ganker.


Even with max skills and the best possible tank you can fix on a hulk(T2 wise), a single max skilled hurricane and blow him/her out of space in .5 space including overheating systems.



Right. See...you do not want to be a part of the solution, just part of the gang that whines. Oh and even the best fit hurricane cannot solo pop a well tanked hulk. in .5 -- just isn't going to happen. You're good at whining though. So keep it up.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#36 - 2012-05-28 01:34:12 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
Thousands of miners are completely unaffected and can't be arsed to even think twice about Hulkageddon. Why? Because they tank their ships, they don't mine afk and have have a modicum of common sense. So no, this 'great outcry' from miners is nothing but a hundred or so bad players/ forum warriors.

Life goes on.


I think your more right than wrong, cause I have mined for years seeing the threads where people got ganked, and was thinking, how does that happen. Till it happened to me back 6 months ago and I adapted, sadly with even less isk than before which was already pathetic.

Take T1 ships like destroyers for example, they can gank hulks quite effectively, even tanked ones wtih either a buddy or a little luck solo.

You throw a hurricane in there, unless you use faction equipment, your dead period. No, im not talking about noob gankers, but experienced ones or highly skilled ones.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#37 - 2012-05-28 01:39:40 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
bongsmoke wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
@bongsmoke

If you are seriously worried about the ganking of miners go around and educated them on how to properly tank their ships. Most of the miners getting popped have zero - no tank on their ships at all. The mods and rigs they do put on removes armor! Not smart. A well tanked ship will be looked over by a solo ganker and if the miner is in a well tanked ship and it requires a decent sized gank team many of them are left alone.

BTW if you look at the killboards you'll see that the ships being ganked 90% of the time have just a wee bit over 1000 ehp. A volley from a catalyst or a thrasher is all it takes to pop one. That is insanely silly. Tank your ship and you'll be less likely to attract the attention of a ganker.


Even with max skills and the best possible tank you can fix on a hulk(T2 wise), a single max skilled hurricane and blow him/her out of space in .5 space including overheating systems.



Right. See...you do not want to be a part of the solution, just part of the gang that whines. Oh and even the best fit hurricane cannot solo pop a well tanked hulk. in .5 -- just isn't going to happen. You're good at whining though. So keep it up.


Now this isnt constructive, and I am going to disagree. Getting a hulk to slightly over 20k tank is max ehp. T2 wise

My purpose here isnt to whine, but to see what (if anything) we can do to help balance both income/risk.

I want peoples opinions, mining isnt my main profession or secondary, and havent done so in several months cause hulkaggedon is to me, only to reward gankers, not the only time for gankers to gank.

If you dont believe there is an imbalance, then your certainly entitled to your opinion.
Doctor Benway Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-05-28 01:46:48 UTC
I've got several hulks that I mine with.

In nullsec.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#39 - 2012-05-28 01:52:25 UTC
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:
I've got several hulks that I mine with.

In nullsec.


Im sure you have several titans / carriers too. Cause your mining in the safety of your space with players in huge numbers that make concord look like little kittens that shoot anything not blue on-site.

Maybe that's the issue, if you have negative sec status, even -.1 and you jump into .5 or higher you immediately get concorded.

You may have found the holy grail for hi-sec miners.
Snow Burst
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-05-28 02:00:32 UTC
bongsmoke wrote:
I do not want to see this, but since the outcry of hulkaggedon(however you spell it), and the response of players.

Do we really need this profession? Miners seem to be the primary targets in hi/low/null sec by other players, the rewards compared to any other profession are terrible. You can refine everything from mission drops for minerals, not that missioners don't get ganked, but certainly no where near the mining populous since missioners have actual tanking abilities.

I'm certain indy corps would be against this, but on these forums, they are the 'minority' compared to the grievers.

tl;dr what do you think? would gankers say no, since then they have to actually coordinate ganks against harder targets?

PS yes, I have a hulk trained up including orca skills, havent and wont use them for a long while if ever again tbh.

PSS no, I have never 'ganked' anyone in hi sec nor do i have the desire too.

ure an idiot... mining gives ore to the game tht MAKES your ships no mining no ore no pew pew simple as

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