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Ally wardec system allready showing its flaws ?
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snake pies
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#61 - 2012-05-26 01:48:52 UTC
merc tears best tears

why don't you adapt and either unite all the mercenary groups, or start metagaming these alliances from within as payback
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#62 - 2012-05-26 02:05:00 UTC
snake pies wrote:
merc tears best tears

why don't you adapt and either unite all the mercenary groups, or start metagaming these alliances from within as payback

By "metagame" "from within" you mean to become spais?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#63 - 2012-05-26 02:55:03 UTC
Jonathan Malcom wrote:
Your complaint seems to be that the barrier to entry in the field of Empire wardec circle-jerking has been lowered to essentially zero and the influx of fresh, ravenous combatants who have no concern for remuneration is depriving you (the "mercenary" community) of your deserved fee.

Which is exactly what I said the first time.

I'm not trolling you. You really are an idiot.

I suppose if tomorrow CCP allowed people to cook up moon goo by reprocessing rookie ships, and the price dropped down to half a percent of what it was before, our glorious 0.0 overlords would be "idiots" for not wanting to provide the goo for free.

Everyone defends their means of making money. Calling me an idiot for doing so just makes you a hypocrite.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-05-26 03:02:25 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Jonathan Malcom wrote:
Your complaint seems to be that the barrier to entry in the field of Empire wardec circle-jerking has been lowered to essentially zero and the influx of fresh, ravenous combatants who have no concern for remuneration is depriving you (the "mercenary" community) of your deserved fee.

Which is exactly what I said the first time.

I'm not trolling you. You really are an idiot.

I suppose if tomorrow CCP allowed people to cook up moon goo by reprocessing rookie ships, and the price dropped down to half a percent of what it was before, our glorious 0.0 overlords would be "idiots" for not wanting to provide the goo for free.

Yes. This is exactly correct and entirely what should be expected. Your analogy is exactly why nullsec doesn't export trit to Jita. So maybe, like null and moon goo, the mercs who want to get paid should show what they have to offer and emphasize the differences between themselves and the free offers that those who just want lots of targets. Dunno if that's possible, only time will tell.
Jonathan Malcom
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-05-26 03:26:30 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Jonathan Malcom wrote:
Your complaint seems to be that the barrier to entry in the field of Empire wardec circle-jerking has been lowered to essentially zero and the influx of fresh, ravenous combatants who have no concern for remuneration is depriving you (the "mercenary" community) of your deserved fee.

Which is exactly what I said the first time.

I'm not trolling you. You really are an idiot.

I suppose if tomorrow CCP allowed people to cook up moon goo by reprocessing rookie ships, and the price dropped down to half a percent of what it was before, our glorious 0.0 overlords would be "idiots" for not wanting to provide the goo for free.

Everyone defends their means of making money. Calling me an idiot for doing so just makes you a hypocrite.


:-/

You don't play this game much, do you.

If something that you're doing becomes unprofitable, you change what you're doing. Miners did that. Once upon a time, (and seemingly once again) mining was very profitable. Then not so much. So many people stopped mining.

If you're not making money as a merc because other people will do your job for free, that's a pretty solid tip that you may want to do something else for a bit.

I'm sorry that people like killing each-other and that your (I'm sure remarkably high-quality) services are not in demand. But asking CCP to artificially limit people's ability to kill each-other because you find the current system inconvenient is ********.

Unfuck yourself.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#66 - 2012-05-26 04:10:18 UTC
Jonathan Malcom wrote:
If something that you're doing becomes unprofitable, you change what you're doing. Miners did that. Once upon a time, (and seemingly once again) mining was very profitable. Then not so much. So many people stopped mining.

If you're not making money as a merc because other people will do your job for free, that's a pretty solid tip that you may want to do something else for a bit.

I guess I can switch to mission-running. Or maybe I can continue doing what I have been doing all this time, and drive the final nail into the sandbox's coffin by continuing to slag bears until CCP finally implements an absolute pvp flag.

Jonathan Malcom wrote:
CCP to artificially limit people's ability to kill each-other

This is exactly what this change has done. The amount of outgoing wars will significantly decrease as a result, and that includes both "grief" wars and aggressive mercenary contracts.

Your insults aren't making me think twice about my actions and principles, since you keep contradicting yourself at every opportunity.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#67 - 2012-05-26 04:12:40 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I guess I can switch to mission-running. Or maybe I can continue doing what I have been doing all this time, and drive the final nail into the sandbox's coffin by continuing to slag bears until CCP finally implements an absolute pvp flag.

Yeah go for it !

Slag all those bears !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#68 - 2012-05-27 11:03:45 UTC
The 0rphanage offered to join our war for free.

We would have paid, if we needed the assistance.

If they really insist on driving down the cost of their own services then there's not a lot anyone can do to stop it.

It is, for every intent and purpose, a free market. Give it a month; you will see actual merc outfits getting paid to do actual merc work and being paid for it.

I really don't see how a handful of 3 man corps joining the war and not paying for it is an issue.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#69 - 2012-05-27 11:18:18 UTC
Wasn't there supposed to be some fancy merc market place ui? One where you could compare prices and past performances of merc corps? What happened to that?

C.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#70 - 2012-05-27 23:39:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
All tears, rage, and BS aside. Someone please explain to me this...

- Two null sec alliances ("A" and "B") are duking it out in null sec
- "A" decides to cut off "B"s hi sec operations and pays for a pricey war dec
- "B" tenders for Allies and gets a bunch of corps for free who are looking for free hi sec pvp
- The more who join "B" the more appealing it is for others to join and "B" gets a free hi sec blob
- "A" cannot get allies unless they pay (again) to hire some mercs
(no mercs would take this contract vs the "B blob" for less than null-sec prices)

So, to re-cap, "A" pays a fee and gets one ally to fight potentially a limitless number of corps and alliances that "B" can hire for free. The result is that "B" gains an upper hand by doing nothing other than letting "A" make the first move. Ergo the only two outcomes I can assume are 1) CCP overlooked this or 2) CCP planned this to make hi-sec wars unviable.

Please could someone explain this logic to me?

PreEdit: Last time I was at war it was vs CFC to help protect Jita during the event. i.e this is not a hi-sec griefer whine post.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#71 - 2012-05-29 13:34:28 UTC
You're confusing "can be hired for free" with "will always be free"

It's supply and demand. If I chose to go ratting and sell all my faction drops for less than T2 prices this doesn't mean CCP needs to "fix" faction drops to stop them being offered for free.

One of those allies out there is my alt corp. I only log that toon in if I can be bothered. Would anyone pay for this? No. So what precisely is the issue in me offering this "service" for free?

If you think people will pay less for Noir. because you can hire people to semi-enthusiastically camp Jita 4-4 then you're not assigning much value to the product you're offering.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-05-29 13:49:06 UTC
I read your post OP and tbh I liek teh way it is, more war for everyone and less ganking little 10 man indy corps for easy kills since now you will almost certainly be getting hit by people who want to fight.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#73 - 2012-05-29 13:49:19 UTC
Let EVE players figure it out not CCP. Let the sandbox live.
Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#74 - 2012-05-29 13:54:28 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
The 0rphanage offered to join our war for free.

We would have paid, if we needed the assistance.

If they really insist on driving down the cost of their own services then there's not a lot anyone can do to stop it.

It is, for every intent and purpose, a free market. Give it a month; you will see actual merc outfits getting paid to do actual merc work and being paid for it.

I really don't see how a handful of 3 man corps joining the war and not paying for it is an issue.



If someone gives away their service they are not merc's .

I think most will find the few that join a large war pay for their own losses and hi sec wars are not target rich and null sec actually becomes markets.
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#75 - 2012-05-29 14:44:18 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Jonathan Malcom wrote:
Your complaint seems to be that the barrier to entry in the field of Empire wardec circle-jerking has been lowered to essentially zero and the influx of fresh, ravenous combatants who have no concern for remuneration is depriving you (the "mercenary" community) of your deserved fee.

Which is exactly what I said the first time.

I'm not trolling you. You really are an idiot.

I suppose if tomorrow CCP allowed people to cook up moon goo by reprocessing rookie ships, and the price dropped down to half a percent of what it was before, our glorious 0.0 overlords would be "idiots" for not wanting to provide the goo for free.

Everyone defends their means of making money. Calling me an idiot for doing so just makes you a hypocrite.


I do think its funny that ccp seemingly wants to remove all passive isk except moon goo (and it PI and datacores are passive, unless youre doing onto the moon and mining it dust style then moon mining is passive too)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#76 - 2012-05-29 14:45:50 UTC
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Jonathan Malcom wrote:
Your complaint seems to be that the barrier to entry in the field of Empire wardec circle-jerking has been lowered to essentially zero and the influx of fresh, ravenous combatants who have no concern for remuneration is depriving you (the "mercenary" community) of your deserved fee.

Which is exactly what I said the first time.

I'm not trolling you. You really are an idiot.

I suppose if tomorrow CCP allowed people to cook up moon goo by reprocessing rookie ships, and the price dropped down to half a percent of what it was before, our glorious 0.0 overlords would be "idiots" for not wanting to provide the goo for free.

Everyone defends their means of making money. Calling me an idiot for doing so just makes you a hypocrite.


I do think its funny that ccp seemingly wants to remove all passive isk except moon goo (and it PI and datacores are passive, unless youre doing onto the moon and mining it dust style then moon mining is passive too)

Yep, come to nullsec and get yourself some passive moongoo income.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#77 - 2012-05-29 15:12:28 UTC
I forget, are allies allowed to shoot each other freely? Smile

If this were to be the case, that should drastically limit the number of misc. "free" allies most corps would be willing to take on.

Instead, they would be motivated to chose allies whose reputation they trust, even if that means they need to pay a fee.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#78 - 2012-05-29 15:15:28 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I forget, are allies allowed to shoot each other freely? Smile

If this were to be the case, that should drastically limit the number of misc. "free" allies most corps would be willing to take on.

Instead, they would be motivated to chose allies whose reputation they trust, even if that means they need to pay a fee.

That would make for some amusing wars.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#79 - 2012-05-29 15:20:52 UTC
WAAAAAAA I war deced a carebear corp and a bunch of people helped them WAAAAAAAAAA

I'd say the system is working as intended.

As far as excessive allies goes, that is just because it is all new, that will work out in time.

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#80 - 2012-05-29 16:13:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I forget, are allies allowed to shoot each other freely? Smile

If this were to be the case, that should drastically limit the number of misc. "free" allies most corps would be willing to take on.

Instead, they would be motivated to chose allies whose reputation they trust, even if that means they need to pay a fee.

That would make for some amusing wars.


Exactly. Smile

If an ally were able to shoot the hiring corp and all other allies then the merc companies reputation would become key. No one would hire (or even accept for free) an ally with a record of betrayal. Lets face it, most of the "free" allies are simply looking for kills and would have a difficult time not popping all those available targets if the aggressor doesn't keep them entertained.

High quality, worthwhile merc companies would stress discipline, would be in high demand, and could charge a resonable fee.

Low quality war freeloaders would eventually shoot themselves in the foot by popping allies and only a fool would allow them to participate.

The whole system would self regulate even more quickly. It likely will anyway, but this would provide a stronger incentive for that process to not be abused.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.