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Make Training Implants a Captain's Quarters Function
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-05-26 21:00:42 UTC
other way around

make training implants only active when undocked
Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-05-26 21:25:02 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
other way around

make training implants only active when undocked


not empty quoting.

We are our own worst enemy.
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#23 - 2012-05-27 04:11:49 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
other way around

make training implants only active when undocked



So where would you leave your ship when you log off for the night?

I'm going to assume you were just being sarcastic.

betoli wrote:
I don't think the implant market would break, if you had to have multiple 'station implants' for each location, with an expiry timer, chances are overall demand would grow (an isk sink - a good thing). People would still want implants and they would also want 'station implants' for several locations. People would spend more on combat implants than learning ones maybe, but the overall market would expand....

I do agree that everything should be at risk in some form, however players living in a training clone that they never take into hostile space is hardly what I'd call 'at risk' either.


Perhaps having multiple station implants is a good idea.

There has also been a discussion on the forums where the trainign implants would be removed altogether, just like the training skill books had been. This would mean that everyone would just get a +5 to all attributes and we could just focus on using combat / space based implants.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it
Idris Mandela
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-05-27 04:14:39 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
other way around

make training implants only active when undocked



So where would you leave your ship when you log off for the night?

I'm going to assume you were just being sarcastic.

betoli wrote:
I don't think the implant market would break, if you had to have multiple 'station implants' for each location, with an expiry timer, chances are overall demand would grow (an isk sink - a good thing). People would still want implants and they would also want 'station implants' for several locations. People would spend more on combat implants than learning ones maybe, but the overall market would expand....

I do agree that everything should be at risk in some form, however players living in a training clone that they never take into hostile space is hardly what I'd call 'at risk' either.


Perhaps having multiple station implants is a good idea.

There has also been a discussion on the forums where the trainign implants would be removed altogether, just like the training skill books had been. This would mean that everyone would just get a +5 to all attributes and we could just focus on using combat / space based implants.


I think this would be the best way to go. Getting rid of training implants will get rid one of the biggest disincentives to PvP in my opinion.
Xhaiden Ora
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-05-27 09:54:15 UTC
Yeah, training implants is something that really needs to be revisted due to the risk aversion factor.

However, I don't think replacing one issue with another is the way to go about it.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#26 - 2012-05-27 10:52:35 UTC
Not everybody uses that pointless box they call CQ.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#27 - 2012-05-27 11:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Bluddwolf
Virgil Travis wrote:
Not everybody uses that pointless box they call CQ.


Part of my idea was to give the "box" a purpose. Having you actually enter the CQ, even if it is just to gain a training boost, would be a first step in adding function to the CQ. Yes, I know you can do all of that from the hanger, and even some of it from space.

Idris Mandela wrote:
I think this would be the best way to go. Getting rid of training implants will get rid one of the biggest disincentives to PvP in my opinion.


That and a 24 hour JC clock also discentivise PVP. If we had the ability to enter any clone we had direct access to (No Jump needed), than this would resolve the main issues.

I'm not saying get rid of Jump Clones. I'm not saying get rid of the Jump Clone 24 hour clock. I'm saying to add the ability to enter a clone you have direct access to, whenever you want to and at the same cost of creating a new Jump Clone (100k isk).

This way you would have the choice to put your implants at risk in exchange of greater time in training boost.

This way you would have the choice of not putting your training implants at risk, but you're also not locked into that clone for 24 hours.

This would add an additional money sink, which oddly enough some seem to feel there needs to be one, by charging a 100k fee to enter a clone directly.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it
Averyia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-05-27 13:47:04 UTC
Meh. I liked the idea of removing skill implants all together and giving all characters an attribute boost. Not sure what to do with the non-pirate implants though.

All warfare is based on deception and logistics. Battles and soldiers are secondary priorities.
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-05-27 14:09:47 UTC
This idea is horrible for all the reasons Danika gave on page one.

The only way to get rid of learning implants that I would support would be to grant a buff to the attributes while they are being used actively.

So if you use a skill for a module, like Armor hardeners require mechanic and Hull upgrades, so that requires intelligence and memory, so whenever you are using your armor hardeners, you get a very small boost to intelligence and memory.

This would be for all the things you do all the time, so all of for attributes would be getting some boost all the time, while the skills you use in support of your chosen play style would benefit slightly more.

Make the max boost from this about +3 total, continue to allow implants. Allow a max boost from both implants and this a total of +6.

So if you want to use +3 implants, and you PvP a lot, you are likely to have some of your skills always sitting at +6 while others would be at +3. If you don't play so much, pay extra isk for +5 implants. If you play a lot and don't want to risk implants, don't use them, get up to +3 from active use.

Everyone is happy.

OP is a terrible idea.
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-05-27 14:24:50 UTC
Loius Woo wrote:

So if you use a skill for a module, like Armor hardeners require mechanic and Hull upgrades, so that requires intelligence and memory, so whenever you are using your armor hardeners, you get a very small boost to intelligence and memory.

OP is a terrible idea.


Compared to a mechanic that means people will sit in space at a safe spot running armour hardeners in a cheap frig its a great idea ;-)
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-05-27 14:36:03 UTC
betoli wrote:
Loius Woo wrote:

you get a very small boost to intelligence and memory.


Compared to a mechanic that means people will sit in space at a safe spot running armour hardeners in a cheap frig its a great idea ;-)



Reading comprehension is a good thing.

Very small as in like +.05-.1 Think of all the skills you use when you are actively doing things, all of that would make a MAX of +3, not just because the max is +3 but because all the things add up to about +3.

So sitting in a frig outside a station running a hardener wouldn't give you enough to matter.

And it is WAY better than a blunt +5 for sitting in station ffs!
Idris Mandela
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-05-27 14:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Idris Mandela
betoli wrote:
Loius Woo wrote:

So if you use a skill for a module, like Armor hardeners require mechanic and Hull upgrades, so that requires intelligence and memory, so whenever you are using your armor hardeners, you get a very small boost to intelligence and memory.

OP is a terrible idea.


Compared to a mechanic that means people will sit in space at a safe spot running armour hardeners in a cheap frig its a great idea ;-)



Alas in some ways EVE has painted itself into a corner. The problem inherent in having only 5 skill levels per skill and then having exponentially (Geometrically?) increasing training time for each additional skill point has compounded the problems of getting people into PvP. I don't know how many times I have heard in NPC chat about how it takes so long to fly and properly fit even an Assault Frigate.

The long training times and high end skill is there I suspect, to keep older players still interested in EVE, as to go up in SP they will go in for Capitals and Super Caps and the like. This end game scenario unfortunately squeezes the lower end of the spectrum.

If I had my way this is what I would do:

1. Get rid of training implants. Like Learning skills they just provide too much of a disincentive to PVP.
2. Compensate by giving a general boost to training time across the board, say 10 to 15%
3. Reduce Jump Clone Cooldown to 12 hours, as well as corp standings to 6.0 for JC installation while INCREASING the cost of each JC by 200% to 500% (This could also be done at an exponential cost, so for each additional JC you need to pay N amount more, just like Medical clones).
4. Probably most controversially: Reduce training time to get into a T2 frigate, or better yet reduce the entry demand for T2 frigates - Mechanics 4 / Engineering 4 / Frigate 5. This would reduce the entry time table to T2 frigates, and give new players more incentives to PVP.
5. No changes for T2 Cruiser hulls and above.

By simply allowing new peeps into Assault frigates, they will *feel* that they now have a fighting chance in the game. And no, no point bringing out the whole "But anyone can PvP even in a T1" thats only true if you are an experienced player to begin with able to fit your ship with decent mods. i.e sufficient powergrid, CPU, upgrade skills reduction to CPU, Powergrid etc, in which case - closer to T2 frigs anyway.

I probably will get flamed for the above, but the truth is getting new peeps to PvP is what will keep EVE alive and more importantly - more War targets. I mean whats not to like in more people to shoot at? Especially now they shoot back instead of docking up?
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-05-27 16:59:40 UTC
Idris Mandela wrote:

Alas in some ways EVE has painted itself into a corner. The problem inherent in having only 5 skill levels per skill and then having exponentially (Geometrically?) increasing training time for each additional skill point has compounded the problems of getting people into PvP. I don't know how many times I have heard in NPC chat about how it takes so long to fly and properly fit even an Assault Frigate.

...

I probably will get flamed for the above, but the truth is getting new peeps to PvP is what will keep EVE alive and more importantly - more War targets. I mean whats not to like in more people to shoot at? Especially now they shoot back instead of docking up?


Nope - its pretty accurate.

I'd support the complete removal of learning implants. I'd be completely against reducing the JC timer - that just allows free instant travel, making space really small.
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-05-27 17:00:58 UTC
Loius Woo wrote:
betoli wrote:
Loius Woo wrote:

you get a very small boost to intelligence and memory.


Compared to a mechanic that means people will sit in space at a safe spot running armour hardeners in a cheap frig its a great idea ;-)



Reading comprehension is a good thing.

Very small as in like +.05-.1 Think of all the skills you use when you are actively doing things, all of that would make a MAX of +3, not just because the max is +3 but because all the things add up to about +3.

So sitting in a frig outside a station running a hardener wouldn't give you enough to matter.

And it is WAY better than a blunt +5 for sitting in station ffs!


+0.05-1.0 is enough to make people stay in space when they aren't playing. That just pointlessly creates server load in busy systems.
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#35 - 2012-05-27 23:35:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bluddwolf
betoli wrote:

I'd support the complete removal of learning implants. I'd be completely against reducing the JC timer - that just allows free instant travel, making space really small.




Actually, my idea had evolved as it relates to the JC timer. My newer idea was to allow access to a Clone that you are in direct contact with. This way, JCs would remain as they are (with their 24 hour timer). You would also not be able to jump from one side of the galaxy to the other without using a JC.

I also said that there would be a cost, the same as installing a new jump clone, just to access a clone directly. Some had argued the importance of there being a money sink.


What this system would allow for:

1. I'm in my current training clone.

2. I get a call from my corp, I'm needed for PVP action.

3. I go to my nearest Clone Facility, pay the 100k fee and enter clone.

4. Attend PVP action

5. return to station where I left my trainign clone and reenter it, at a cost of 100k isk.

For a cost of 200k isk, I am able to participate in PVP without risking 550 million isk in implants, and without locking myself out of my training clone for 24 hours.

Will someone, now try to, claim that this will deincentivise undocking?

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-05-28 08:10:38 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
You...want to discourage undocking?

That's what I read too.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#37 - 2012-05-28 10:28:39 UTC
Plaude Pollard wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
You...want to discourage undocking?

That's what I read too.



WOW, you read through the 4th post.

Have you ever imagined that a suggestion might change over a few dozen new ideas during a discussion?

Read the post just before yours and see if that discourages undocking.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2012-05-28 22:45:09 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:
Plaude Pollard wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
You...want to discourage undocking?

That's what I read too.



WOW, you read through the 4th post.

Have you ever imagined that a suggestion might change over a few dozen new ideas during a discussion?

Read the post just before yours and see if that discourages undocking.


He's right. Now, it just removes a very large isk sink, and most of the penalty of death.

Roll
Dex Tera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-05-29 00:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dex Tera
Bluddwolf wrote:
CCP could change training "implants" into a Captain's Quarters function, so that you're only getting training boost when you are "docked" and your training "implants" will never be at risk or tied to one particular clone.

All other implants would remain the same, being specific to the clone they are in and remaining at risk of loss.

What this change would do is limit the need to jump clone as often. It won't change the cost or the risk of loss of those +5 implants, because I don't know anyone who actually puts them at risk.

It will slow down the training time for those who are very active in space, but they would make up some of it by docking every night and logging into their training program while off line.

It even makes sense as a mechanic of the technology of New Eden. It makes more sense that a capsuleer is focusing the managaemnt of his / her augments directly related to space operations while in space. When in their quarters, the opposite is true,

Please discuss by pointing out additional Pros and Cons to this idea.


wtf do you even play eve 5hitiest idea ever did you ever think about all the ppl that live in poses and dont have a station in there system like in w space never post on these forums again plz

must be a troll
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#40 - 2012-05-29 05:37:48 UTC
It seems useless. I do not see what you want to obtain with such measures. The better way to protect the Implants is to reduce the timer between jump clones.
I think a skill that reduce of 3 hours by level the jump clone timer would be excellent.
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Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
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