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Have you forgotten what Eve online is about?
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mokslininkas
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#21 - 2012-05-27 00:26:29 UTC
strange that so many ppl don't understand or cant accept fact, that main problem is that isk is not bound to game resources. moons provide resources, mining provide resources, refining, PI, salvaging and other - and resources can be converted to items. these items can be destroyed (almost all love to do this). but this destruction removes materials from game not the isk or more precisly - only small amount of isk is removed (sometimes).

isk comes from ratting, npc missions, npc goods trading and so on and isk removed from game by bills, skillbooks, lp shop and bla bla bla...

we have situation that isks accumulate inside the game all the time and that main problem. very strange that ccp intoduced PI as pos fuel generator - i think all with brains agree - pos fuel as npc sold goods was very good thing for eve economy as isk remover.

so what solution for this? maybe we need remove constant non stop isk flow? smth like gathered in game resources can be turned to npc for isk or can be converted to items. so we would have currency for trading and it would be bound to ingame resources.
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#22 - 2012-05-27 00:30:20 UTC
I believe eve is about doing anti climax pve activities which just happen to be the most anti-climatic in the entire industry!

We must fight for our right to bore ourselves to death and play this game as single player and treat the market as if all sell and buy orders are seeded by NPCs!
mokslininkas
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#23 - 2012-05-27 01:01:18 UTC
Ludi Burek wrote:
I believe eve is about doing anti climax pve activities which just happen to be the most anti-climatic in the entire industry!

We must fight for our right to bore ourselves to death and play this game as single player and treat the market as if all sell and buy orders are seeded by NPCs!



yeah, seems someone thinks that plex creates isk from air and all ships created by leet pvp fleets fighting :)
Serene Repose
#24 - 2012-05-27 02:48:42 UTC
Have market bots escaped everyone's notice, or is the math too difficult?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Eve Forum Sociopath's
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-05-27 02:54:22 UTC
Log on wax off, confirming the same 25 character pictures are still posting in every thread for years LolLolLol log on scroll down, laugh my ass off log off... nothing more to see. You people should be getting tired of each other by now! Lol
Commander Spurty
#26 - 2012-05-27 02:54:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Spurty
I quite agree, limiting things is a good idea to cause conflict, however Tech is NOT limited.

There's way too many moons of the stuff.

So what was the point again of this thread?

Edit: I there are three entities fighting over tech, you really want only two moons so at least one side always has to fight.

Right now, there are three entities and over 20 moons.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-05-27 02:57:46 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Miilla wrote:
So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?


EVE is a game. It requires players to function. When a certain player demographic does all in their power to drive another player demographic out of the game, a responsible developer has a choice to make - allow it, or take steps to limit the damage. Both are legitimate, in their own way.

If they allow this behaviour and even encourage it, they run a very real risk of losing part of the player base. This is never a good thing, but the problem is further exacerbated by the fact that once these players are gone, the players that drove them out of the game might get bored and quit themselves. Which is what is sometimes referred to a "double whammy".

As it applies to EVE, if griefers and suicide gankers drive enough miners away from the game, they may run out of targets. And they sure as hell won't fight eachother because they lack testicular fortitude to fight someone who can and will actually fight back. Once that happens, they'll quit out of boredom. And the game dies. Well, not really dies, that's too dramatic. But a population drop can lead to a loss of player critical mass that will affect all other facets of the game.

The second option, do something about it? Limit how easy it is to gank someone? Might be a better way to address the problem. Griefers determined enough will still do it, but it'll curb the casual griefing, and give some miners a fighting chance.

Personally I'm not advocating either approach - I'm neither a miner nor a griefer. I have no stake at this, no matter which way it goes. But I will tell you that allowing part of the player base to drive away another part of the player base, in a sandbox game, that first and foremost claims to offer a wide variety of viable gameplay choices is not a good idea.


Most excellent posted reply and very well written. I agree with you 100%.

You sir have my vote for CSM Chairman.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Mui Rose
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-05-27 03:38:47 UTC
Gotta say Herzog nailed it, well said man
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-05-27 03:40:36 UTC
Mui Rose wrote:
Gotta say Herzog nailed it, well said man

Not empty quoting.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Bl4ck Ph03n1x
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-05-27 14:05:06 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
Mui Rose wrote:
Gotta say Herzog nailed it, well said man

Not empty quoting.


More CCP communication would be nice. Not only on this topic.
They seems to have forgotten the Nex Event...

Don't feed the trolls.
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#31 - 2012-05-27 14:09:26 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Have market bots escaped everyone's notice, or is the math too difficult?



It took CCP 24 days to get to a Market Bot Petition I filed. Apparently, it's either not that important or too difficult to deal with. Not sure here. They'll never say of course.

***
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#32 - 2012-05-27 14:10:02 UTC
Eve Forum Sociopath's wrote:
Log on wax off, confirming the same 25 character pictures are still posting in every thread for years LolLolLol log on scroll down, laugh my ass off log off... nothing more to see. You people should be getting tired of each other by now! Lol


No, just tired of you.

***
Eso Es
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-05-27 17:45:22 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:



Every war we have seen in history boils down to resources: either the protection of them, or the taking of them, or in many cases, the projected need for them and the politics, of which war is "by other means" and the resistance to it thereof.

Unlimited resources are what makes this game miss the mark over what everybody says it's supposed to be about. If missions and roids in high sec were limited, people would fight over it and there would be actual real war declarations aimed at securing resources instead of the usual 10 high SP greifers versus 3 miners BS that gives war decs a bad reputation. If tech moons can be mined flat or to such extent that it would have be left alone for a year to replenish , we would not be seeing a deserted 0.0 space ringed by gate blobs manned by renters and slaves. No these leet players who say this is all about PVP would actually be engaging in PVP with each other instead of trying to claim that gate camping is PVP.




Wow this is actually a fantastic idea. Mine out a tech moon, the resources reappear in another part of space. Kill enough mission rats, your faction wins and the rats move somewhere else. Seriously, the back and forth and the need to control limited resources would add SOO much to this game, it boggles my mind. Fantastic idea, fantastic post.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#34 - 2012-05-27 17:51:51 UTC
Wait...all this time I was thinking I'd soon be part of the Rebel Alliance and destroying the Death Star. Then I'd find out I was force sensitive and would get a lightsaber and meet a little green frog alien thingy that would teach me the ways of the force. This game doesn't have that?

Not cool CCP! Not cool at all. I'm cancelling my account right now.
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#35 - 2012-05-27 18:46:33 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Miilla wrote:
So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?


EVE is a game. It requires players to function. When a certain player demographic does all in their power to drive another player demographic out of the game, a responsible developer has a choice to make - allow it, or take steps to limit the damage. Both are legitimate, in their own way.

If they allow this behaviour and even encourage it, they run a very real risk of losing part of the player base. This is never a good thing, but the problem is further exacerbated by the fact that once these players are gone, the players that drove them out of the game might get bored and quit themselves. Which is what is sometimes referred to a "double whammy".

As it applies to EVE, if griefers and suicide gankers drive enough miners away from the game, they may run out of targets. And they sure as hell won't fight eachother because they lack testicular fortitude to fight someone who can and will actually fight back. Once that happens, they'll quit out of boredom. And the game dies. Well, not really dies, that's too dramatic. But a population drop can lead to a loss of player critical mass that will affect all other facets of the game.

The second option, do something about it? Limit how easy it is to gank someone? Might be a better way to address the problem. Griefers determined enough will still do it, but it'll curb the casual griefing, and give some miners a fighting chance.

Personally I'm not advocating either approach - I'm neither a miner nor a griefer. I have no stake at this, no matter which way it goes. But I will tell you that allowing part of the player base to drive away another part of the player base, in a sandbox game, that first and foremost claims to offer a wide variety of viable gameplay choices is not a good idea.


Yep. I'm looking forward to Goon tears when the consequences of pissing in their own sandbox start piling up.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#36 - 2012-05-27 19:00:45 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:
Yep. I'm looking forward to Goon tears when the consequences of pissing in their own sandbox start piling up.


Then they move on to the next Corporate Victim.

***
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-05-27 19:11:42 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Quote:
Set more than 21,000 years in the future, the background story of Eve Online explains that humanity, having used up most of Earth's resources through centuries of explosive population growth, began colonizing the rest of the Milky Way. In turn, this expansion also led to competition and fighting over available resources as it did on Earth, but everything changed with the discovery of a natural wormhole leading to an unexplored galaxy named "New Eden". Dozens of colonies were founded, and a structure was built to stabilize the wormhole that bridged the intergalactic colonies with the rest of human civilization, a giant gateway bearing the name "EVE". However, when the natural wormhole unexpectedly collapsed, it destroyed the gate. Cut off from the rest of humanity and supplies from Earth, the colonies of New Eden were left starved and disconnected from one another; some died out entirely. Over the eons the descendants of the colonists managed to survive and rebuild their own societies, but the memories and knowledge of humanity's origins as well as their own from Earth and the Milky Way became lost. Five major distinct societies rose to prominence from the colonies, each growing into interstellar spaceflight-capable civilizations. The states based around these colonies make up the five major factions in Eve Online: the Amarr Empire, the Caldari State, the Gallente Federation, the Minmatar Republic and the Jove Directorate.


So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?




This is what I mean.

People will harp on "this is EvE! HTFU" and "Go back to WoW" but this is a game that is PVP oriented over resources - resources that NEVER RUN OUT.


How many of those leet 0.0 dwellers would cry their eyes out if it became possible to mine a tech moon until it was depleted?

Would we be seeing such a NAPfest?

How populated would high sec be if it were possible to mine every roid out of a system? How about the pirate factions getting a clue and realizing they have to move out of a high sec system when everybody and their brother are taking missions to kill them? The "mission faucet" running out, and missioners having to find work elsewhere.


Every war we have seen in history boils down to resources: either the protection of them, or the taking of them, or in many cases, the projected need for them and the politics, of which war is "by other means" and the resistance to it thereof.

Unlimited resources are what makes this game miss the mark over what everybody says it's supposed to be about. If missions and roids in high sec were limited, people would fight over it and there would be actual real war declarations aimed at securing resources instead of the usual 10 high SP greifers versus 3 miners BS that gives war decs a bad reputation. If tech moons can be mined flat or to such extent that it would have be left alone for a year to replenish , we would not be seeing a deserted 0.0 space ringed by gate blobs manned by renters and slaves. No these leet players who say this is all about PVP would actually be engaging in PVP with each other instead of trying to claim that gate camping is PVP.

CCP should demonstrate some Roden-sized bawls (read "Templar One" for an idea of how huge Roden's cajones are) here they would make resources, missions, roids, moons, gas, etc, limited and this game would become everything that everybody who ever padded their KB with a rookie ship says it should be.



QFT, great post - albeit too idealistic for this game. This game is always in a balance between "easy to get into action" and "long-term career and empire-building". Making resources finite would go a long way to preserving the "virtual world" feel of EVE against the ever-enticing encroachments of the "virtual lobby" that so many MMOs seem to be turning into.

I would favour that and permadeath.

Of course the two together would probably slow the game too much to keep the interest of folks who are mostly in it for combat.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#38 - 2012-05-27 19:25:17 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
EVE is a game. It requires players to function. When a certain player demographic does all in their power to drive another player demographic out of the game, a responsible developer has a choice to make - allow it, or take steps to limit the damage. Both are legitimate, in their own way.

If they allow this behaviour and even encourage it, they run a very real risk of losing part of the player base. This is never a good thing, but the problem is further exacerbated by the fact that once these players are gone, the players that drove them out of the game might get bored and quit themselves. Which is what is sometimes referred to a "double whammy".

As it applies to EVE, if griefers and suicide gankers drive enough miners away from the game, they may run out of targets. And they sure as hell won't fight eachother because they lack testicular fortitude to fight someone who can and will actually fight back. Once that happens, they'll quit out of boredom. And the game dies. Well, not really dies, that's too dramatic. But a population drop can lead to a loss of player critical mass that will affect all other facets of the game.


'Griefers' have plagued this game since '03, and yet they still haven't managed to destroy EVE. Roll

And any miners that allow themselves to be driven out of the game, are the ones that are to greedy or stupid to adapt.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#39 - 2012-05-27 19:26:49 UTC
I thought EvE Online was all about PLEX?

So close...
pussnheels
Viziam
#40 - 2012-05-27 19:27:35 UTC
if your point is the current senseless griefing on miners is how EVE should be played then i am seriously dissapointed in you

If this is indeed the point of your post than the answer in my opinion is no , this has abslutely nothing to do about fighting over resources , this is all about , griefing on a massive scale and hurting peoples enjoyment allbecause some of you people are convinced that EVE should be played their way and any other type of game play doesn't belong in this game

when i started my first character , now almost 4 years ago , EVE was a multi level universe , with many different things you could go and do either casual or hardcore, with a multitude of proffesions
and with choices ,
you where nowhere safe and always had to watch over your shoulders just in case

But then somehow this idea came along that EVE is for PVP only and that anything that doesn't involes the risk of losing your ship doesn't belong here and people started to advocate the purging of all miners , all under the bannier of fighting bots
and so this continues till today , just blatant griefing for the lulz without any thoughts on the long term consequince this will have to CCP s income and further development of the game . Just have a look at the graphics on players online between now and last year

I Don't want high sec to be 100 precent safe , never, that is against the spirit of the game i only want a end to this idea that EVE is for one type of player only and the rest should leave

One more stab , suicideganking/griefing miners is NOT pvp , losing your ship to a game mechanic you can't beat has nothing to do with taking risks , but then again alot of you younger players who call themself highsec pvpers prefer that over losing a ship to a real player ....omy can you imagine the shame and embarrasment of losing a ship to someone who is better than you and always will be and what will yourfriends think of you

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
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