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Looks like we're winning the war: Highsec mining drops by HALF!
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Francisco Bizzaro
#341 - 2012-05-27 10:02:42 UTC
Kara Vix wrote:
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
No charge Big smile You should realize though that mining is one of the driving factors of Eve. Everything derives from the minerals it produces and pvp occurs from corps fighting over the more precious sources. It is fundamental to the game so wanting it to cease as a mechanic is rather a poorly thought out idea.

All the more reason for mining to be a challenging profession rather than a PVE "I win" button. Corporations and players who recognize the importance of minerals will develop creative ways to get the job done, and deserve to succeed over their less creative peers. Eve should reward these active, thinking players, and not have the basis of its economy placed at the mercy of AFK hulk pilots who don't understand their middle slots.


A valid point. But how do you get around large alliances like Goons (for example, not flaming them so to speak) who have become so large that they could steamroll anyone in their path and control all of New Eden.

The goons are nowhere near big enough to control all of New Eden, or even a portion of a wide-spread and heterogeneous market such as minerals and belt mining.

Quote:
There needs to be room for the 'small guy' to succeed.

There's already too much room for the small guy to succeed. If you can afford a hulk and then fly it semi-AFK towards profit, then it is too easy. The kill boards suggest that this type of flying is still profitable, otherwise we would not be seeing so many untanked hulks within 5 jumps of Jita. There's already plenty of opportunity for the small guy who breaks out of that pattern.

Quote:

I think that by having the more precious minerals in null sec as it is now achieves this. The small time miners in high sec drinking their coffee and chatting with friends while mining Veldspar is not monopolizing the economy but providing a steady supply of the common minerals and allowing a rewarding style of gameplay for non pvp'ers. There is room in the game for both types of gameplay. (for disclosure I neither mine nor pvp, I am a mission runner only but am prepared to defend myself as I know that pvp can happen anywhere anytime)

Drinking coffee is great, I'm doing it now, but it doesn't require me to fly a hulk and earn max-yield profits. I think it's fair enough to expect that if people want to be optimal at a given job they should actually be playing the game at a high level. If someone wants to play casual, that's cool, but then what's the problem with casual levels of profit? Eve provides many options which make you far less of a target and thus almost completely safe even in these dark days of ganking - and even that can be achieved at probably 80% of the yield of an optimized hulk, so pretty good money for drinking coffee and chatting.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#342 - 2012-05-27 10:09:30 UTC
So what is the benefit of wiping out the primary source of minerals, thus letting mineral prices and thus everything else skyrocket? Or is this just for the lulz?

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Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#343 - 2012-05-27 10:23:26 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
So what is the benefit of wiping out the primary source of minerals, thus letting mineral prices and thus everything else skyrocket? Or is this just for the lulz?


Seems some players feel that their style of play is the only that is valid and that any who disagree should move on, or die. I truly think these forum fighters would see EVE fail as a game rather than let others enjoy it in a manner they disagree with (ie: miners, carebears).
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#344 - 2012-05-27 11:57:48 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
We don't want miners to leave. We just want the miners who, after getting killed, immediately whine and call for CCP to implement massive carebear protection measures, to leave.



Oh we just want miners to get back into more unarmed ships so we can shoot them some more, we are so leet Roll.

Allow mining ships hulks and such to fit weapons. Enough to be able to take down those brave carebear pvp pilots (what could be more carebear than shooting things that can't shoot back) and allow them to tank a bit more. That would just be natural evolution.

You can make a special exemption for high-sec miners to be allowed to fly titans without any restrictions, and they will still fill every high slot with strips and every low with yield mods and cargo expanders.

It's not about ship stats, and never has been; it's about attitude.


Some of it is attitude some it is game mechanics. Hulks should be harder to kill than they currently are and should be allowed to defend themselves against a certain amount of agro. Make the slot limited to small/medium guns/missiles only. I know some miners that would love to have some ability to defend themselves especially against destroyer ganks. At the moment the balance in Eve is definatly in the favour of the griefer.

Tal
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#345 - 2012-05-27 12:00:09 UTC
And if that many miners and High Sec industrialists quit, there goes a lot of CCP employees.

The fact that we hated Incarna last year cost CCP employees 120 jobs. 20% of their workforce. That's not something to joke post about tbh.

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El Puerco
P.W. Minerals
#346 - 2012-05-27 12:04:40 UTC
Business has never been better :D thanks for killing my competition.

Errare humanum est.
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#347 - 2012-05-27 12:10:15 UTC
Kara Vix wrote:


Seems some players feel that their style of play is the only that is valid and that any who disagree should move on, or die. I truly think these forum fighters would see EVE fail as a game rather than let others enjoy it in a manner they disagree with (ie: miners, carebears).



The goons announced years ago that they came to ruin the game. YOUR game specifically.

So, here we are..........

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Arras Denard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#348 - 2012-05-27 12:22:45 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Granted, some miners will return to the belts once Hulkageddon ends.

Umm, I have never stopped mining in my hulk in highsec. Your amazing talent for overstatement is to be commended however. Lol
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
#349 - 2012-05-27 12:33:05 UTC
Kara Vix wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
So what is the benefit of wiping out the primary source of minerals, thus letting mineral prices and thus everything else skyrocket? Or is this just for the lulz?


Seems some players feel that their style of play is the only that is valid and that any who disagree should move on, or die. I truly think these forum fighters would see EVE fail as a game rather than let others enjoy it in a manner they disagree with (ie: miners, carebears).


I agree 10000%. The sad part is that the 'you're playing the game wrong' crowd will never admit their faults, for lack of a better word.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#350 - 2012-05-27 12:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
No, what I did is post a simple logical progression illustrating the irony of your little Jihad and the resulting outcome if it continues. The only slippery slope here is your reply which in itself is a complete fallacy, not to mention a contradiction and a flat out lie. Other than that, I guess you didn't understand my statement due to it being so simplified. Let me make it a bit more specific, just for you.



This 'Genocide' that you're calling for is nothing more than a deliberate and systematic destruction of this game. So let's review this madness.


Gankers destroy Mining ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Industrial ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Mission ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Ganking ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Eve Online becomes Eve Offline due to no more player subscriptions..


What you're doing is called MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) = Effectively resulting in the complete annihilation of everyone involved.

Yeah, you're winning the war all right.

Alia Gon'die wrote:
And destroying ganking ships is just silly, how and why would one do that?

Duh, because there's no other player ships left in Eve !!!


And that's the logical conclusion when you eliminate the competition.

The two massive holes in your logic (if your drivel can even be called that) are:

1. That the gankers destroy all mining, industrial, mission and ganking (???) ships, instead of just the ones that are improperly fit and/or being flown by imbeciles.

2. That the players piloting said ships will certainly leave if their ships get destroyed. If ship destruction leads to quitting in absolutely every case, then each and every subscription can't be viewed as anything more than temporary, because it is nigh impossible to play this game and not be destroyed at some point.

Yet this game has grown from a few thousand subscribers (and a time when space was indeed much less safe), to what it is today;


Ahhh, since you don't understand satiric irony based on simple logic you decide to call it drivel.

1. After all the improperly fitted ships are destroyed, the only ones left to gank are the properly fitted ships. Simple logic.

2. Players who have their ships repeatedly ganked will most definitely leave due to not being able to participate in an activity they enjoy. Simple logic.

Stating that the player base has continuously grown since the game was first implemented is incorrect.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

From 2006 to 2008 the game had a steady gradual increase of active players. During the whole year of 2008 that amount leveled off. In the first half of 2009 there was quick growth, then in the middle of 2009 there was a huge drop that leveled out for 6 months. That is the longest stretch of time with a steady low amount of players making it the low base reference point ..Since then, growth has been sporadic and short term followed by a large initial drop and a long steady decrease in player numbers each time. The current amount of active players now online is less than what it was in the middle of 2009.

Also back in the early years it was indeed much safer due to the low amount of active players online. I will agree with you on one point, this game has definitely become "an overpopulated cesspool of cowardly, over-entitled, self-proclaimed sperglords" who think suicide ganking a bunch of Industrial ships makes them elite PvP's.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#351 - 2012-05-27 12:58:50 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
So what is the benefit of wiping out the primary source of minerals, thus letting mineral prices and thus everything else skyrocket? Or is this just for the lulz?



Maybe enouraging that "primary source" to see that there's far more ore than they ever dreamed of, just waiting for them, in space that's actually safer?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#352 - 2012-05-27 13:00:55 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Maybe enouraging that "primary source" to see that there's far more ore than they ever dreamed of, just waiting for them, in space that's actually safer?

And what space would that be?

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Slaphead Dave
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#353 - 2012-05-27 13:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Slaphead Dave
i believe that people should do whatever turns them on, end of the day, the sandbox factor of the game is what drives us to become and do anything , for every bad turn there is allways a ballance, for those miners our there who feel under pressure, dont fret just get out there and do what you do best, perhaps even mine in groups again with friends like in the days olf olde, grow some teeth and try to fend off threats perhaps with a 2nd account and a cloaked supprise who knows, point is there is allways a way arround the problem.

as people have said prices will suffer if miners stop, the market will stagnate and as a result will revert to those with large stockpiles. - not good for all!

go out there, do your mineing, take precatutions.

You guys doing the ganking should do the same, get out there find botters as apose to miners however! the botting should be the enemy not the passtime of mining!
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#354 - 2012-05-27 13:14:37 UTC
Quote:

From 2006 to 2008 the game had a steady gradual increase of active players. During the whole year of 2008 that amount leveled off. In the first half of 2009 there was quick growth, then in the middle of 2009 there was a huge drop that leveled out for 6 months. That is the longest stretch of time with a steady low amount of players making it the low base reference point ..Since then, growth has been sporadic and short term followed by a large initial drop and a long steady decrease in player numbers each time. The current amount of active players now online is less than what it was in the middle of 2009.

Also back in the early years it was indeed much safer due to the low amount of active players online. I will agree with you on one point, this game has definitely become "an overpopulated cesspool of cowardly, over-entitled, self-proclaimed sperglords" who think suicide ganking a bunch of Industrial ships makes them elite PvP's.


CCP perpetuates the myth that the player base continually grows in order to appear healthier than it is. Supposedly there are 400k subs now, even though the online numbers have been declining for a while. It's good to see real data to confirm the trend downward. Given all the free subscription deals that CCP uses, I don't doubt that the number of subs is higher. But Eve has never been good at retaining new players. In my old corp we had to recruit 5 newbie players for every 1 that we kept.

The fake hatred of miners is all about justifying ganking as real PVP, when it isn't. There is an adrenaline rush that comes with harming a real player, and ganker types become addicted to that. But if the only thing that satisfies you in the game is that adrenaline, then you're basically after a game experience that's more like a drug high than anything real.

The whole concept of MMOs is getting tested by the fact that they're all aging and having a hard time keeping players interested. Eve has found a couple of formulas that work but they are at war with each other. The PVP sandbox and the industrialist sandbox are in conflict with each other. Too many people on the forums think that it's only the PVP possibilities that keep people in the game, but a lot of people play Eve long term for the complex economy and the intricacy of making things. Those people are being driven out of the game by the miner jihad mentality.
Amber Solaire
COMA Holdings
Cosmic Maniacs
#355 - 2012-05-27 13:36:50 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
It is still too soon to tell anything. If it rained for three days in a row I swear half the forum whiners on here would be building an ark and begin collecting two of every creature that lives with them in their parent's basement. If it didn't rain for three days they would be screaming global warming, demand a larger tank to store water, and die of dehydration from all the tears they shed.

They are the goldfish of Eve, swimming around New Eden bumping in to mirrors and screaming at themselves for being in the way because their short term memory is about thirty seconds. Like little yapping boot polishing toy-breed dogs they serve little purpose but to make noise, **** the carpets, and on an extremely rare occasion manage to disrupt or kill a much larger dog by getting caught in its throat.

You need to give it time. The Eve economy is a process, not a single act. You need to understand that every change needs time to gestate before coming to fruition. One human can make one baby in nine months. The forum whiners believe that if nine people work together (the Goons) they can make the baby happen in one month. The actual long term effects will still take nine months. In those same nine months you can make a baby of your own, but you want it in two weeks. Unless your last name is Jolie, it probably isn't going to magically appear.



The biggest whiners are not the miners, but the PvPers........Roll
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#356 - 2012-05-27 13:37:27 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


Also back in the early years it was indeed much safer due to the low amount of active players online...


Roll

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#357 - 2012-05-27 13:54:13 UTC
Slaphead Dave wrote:


You guys doing the ganking should do the same, get out there find botters as apose to miners however! the botting should be the enemy not the passtime of mining!



I had an alt that specifically ganked botting Ice Miners. Too bad he won't be playing anymore.

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Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#358 - 2012-05-27 14:00:46 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
The fake hatred of miners is all about justifying ganking as real PVP, when it isn't. There is an adrenaline rush that comes with harming a real player, and ganker types become addicted to that. But if the only thing that satisfies you in the game is that adrenaline, then you're basically after a game experience that's more like a drug high than anything real.



My thoughts exactly.

I have no problem steamrolling Genghis Khan in Civ 5, or shooting everything in sight in an FPS. AI's do not bother me at all (if they did, please commit me).

But when a player is behing the 'fictional' character, something else enter into it. I KNOW how hard EVE is and how difficult it is to learn enough to get really established. It's a different game at the 2 year mark than as a noob. Vastly different. And I need a REALLY GOOD REASON before I feel like just 'disrupting someone's day'. (And yes, all of this is moot in Low and Null btw).

And it's pathetic how they try to dance around the word "BULLYING".

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GFL Kalor
Shadow Council
#359 - 2012-05-27 14:15:25 UTC
I have live in Hi-Sec and Lo-Sec at various times since the launch of Eve Beta. Trying to get the majority of pilots into lo-sec or null sec is stupid. Nurf this, patch that, make it harder and harder for people in hi-sec to make any real isk and it will drive them into lo-sec. Here's a news flash for you CCP. We will just leave the game and go to something else. Eve use to be pretty evenly balanced between hi and lo-sec, meaning you could make pretty good iskies in either area. Granted ABC ores were all in lo-sec, but pilots still made a decent living in hi-sec. The last expansion did nothing to maintain that balance. Now if you want to make any real isk you need to be in low or null sec. Thanks for nothing CCP.
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#360 - 2012-05-27 14:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
GFL Kalor wrote:
I have live in Hi-Sec and Lo-Sec at various times since the launch of Eve Beta. Trying to get the majority of pilots into lo-sec or null sec is stupid. Nurf this, patch that, make it harder and harder for people in hi-sec to make any real isk and it will drive them into lo-sec.



I was doing Low Sec PI over a year with 4 Toons till they introduced POCO's so that the Goons would have another source of ISK from the Taxes.

So, I'm not sure if even trying to get High Seccers into Low or Null is a real 'campaign'. They keep slapping the possibilities down.

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