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Looks like we're winning the war: Highsec mining drops by HALF!
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Keno Skir
#321 - 2012-05-27 05:39:59 UTC
Nobody has ever mentioned to me in a year of playing, that they have or have seen a miner get ganked. In fact mining seems to me to be a more popular passtime than ever, judging by the number of people i talk to who are miners.

Bots get banned, general population is very down due to summer, diablo 3 etc

OP is trying to bush out his results to fit what he would like them to say.

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Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#322 - 2012-05-27 05:40:30 UTC
Alec Freeman wrote:
Dreadknoght Lomaree wrote:
You are an idiot if you think that mineral inputs droppng 50% is a good thing...

Where do you think that every ship in eve came from? Every ship that dies in hulkaggedon, the miner & the ganker, costs minerals to build. Now, miners in high-sec bring in the largest total of minerals in eve, and you think this is a good thing? You think miners will want to go into low-sec or 0.0 when all of this is going on?

Yeah, lets see you in a few weeks when ships begin to increase in price 10-fold (which means tens of millions of isk for a single frigate!)

And im not even talking about the destroyed modules prices...



Some men just like to watch the world burn.


Some men just luv2sell mins at high prices.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
EVE Edward Elric
Doomheim
#323 - 2012-05-27 05:48:29 UTC
Alia Gon'die wrote:
Also, we dont want to destroy all industrial ships, just the all of them.


However it is nice to see you arent walking back the "we want to destroy your game" like you pretend it means something other than what was said. That was even sillier than pretending hulkageddon was anything other than tear collection and pretending Helicity isnt a Mittani alt
Marcus Caspius
#324 - 2012-05-27 05:55:49 UTC
Be careful what you wish for...

Grammatical error and spelling mistakes are included for your entertainment!
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#325 - 2012-05-27 06:56:26 UTC
Alia Gon'die wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
This 'Genocide' that you're calling for is nothing more than a deliberate and systematic destruction of this game. So let's review this madness.



Gankers destroy Mining ships resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Industrial ships resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Mission ships resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Ganking ships resulting in those players leaving the game.

Eve Online becomes Eve Offline due to no more player subscriptions..



What you're doing is called MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) = Effectively resulting in the complete annihilation of everyone involved.

Yeah, you're winning the war all right.


And what you are doing here is a slippery slope argument. It is a logical fallacy. Also, we don't want to destroy all miners, just the highsec ones. And we don't want to destroy all mission ships, just the pimped out multi billion is pimpmobile ones. And destroying ganking ships is just silly, how and why would one do that? Also, we dont want to destroy all industrial ships, just the ones hauling cargo out of proportion for the survivability of the ship.

Ultimately, this is all just economic manipulation. We're removing the competition.

No, what I did is post a simple logical progression illustrating the irony of your little Jihad and the resulting outcome if it continues. The only slippery slope here is your reply which in itself is a complete fallacy, not to mention a contradiction and a flat out lie. Other than that, I guess you didn't understand my statement due to it being so simplified. Let me make it a bit more specific, just for you.



This 'Genocide' that you're calling for is nothing more than a deliberate and systematic destruction of this game. So let's review this madness.


Gankers destroy Mining ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Industrial ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Mission ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Ganking ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Eve Online becomes Eve Offline due to no more player subscriptions..


What you're doing is called MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) = Effectively resulting in the complete annihilation of everyone involved.

Yeah, you're winning the war all right.

Alia Gon'die wrote:
And destroying ganking ships is just silly, how and why would one do that?

Duh, because there's no other player ships left in Eve !!!


And that's the logical conclusion when you eliminate the competition.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#326 - 2012-05-27 07:21:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
No, what I did is post a simple logical progression illustrating the irony of your little Jihad and the resulting outcome if it continues. The only slippery slope here is your reply which in itself is a complete fallacy, not to mention a contradiction and a flat out lie. Other than that, I guess you didn't understand my statement due to it being so simplified. Let me make it a bit more specific, just for you.



This 'Genocide' that you're calling for is nothing more than a deliberate and systematic destruction of this game. So let's review this madness.


Gankers destroy Mining ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Industrial ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Mission ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Ganking ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Eve Online becomes Eve Offline due to no more player subscriptions..


What you're doing is called MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) = Effectively resulting in the complete annihilation of everyone involved.

Yeah, you're winning the war all right.

Alia Gon'die wrote:
And destroying ganking ships is just silly, how and why would one do that?

Duh, because there's no other player ships left in Eve !!!


And that's the logical conclusion when you eliminate the competition.

The two massive holes in your logic (if your drivel can even be called that) are:

1. That the gankers destroy all mining, industrial, mission and ganking (???) ships, instead of just the ones that are improperly fit and/or being flown by imbeciles.

2. That the players piloting said ships will certainly leave if their ships get destroyed. If ship destruction leads to quitting in absolutely every case, then each and every subscription can't be viewed as anything more than temporary, because it is nigh impossible to play this game and not be destroyed at some point.

Yet this game has grown from a few thousand subscribers (and a time when space was indeed much less safe), to what it is today; an overpopulated cesspool of cowardly, over-entitled, self-proclaimed sperglords.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#327 - 2012-05-27 07:26:24 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
We don't want miners to leave. We just want the miners who, after getting killed, immediately whine and call for CCP to implement massive carebear protection measures, to leave.



Oh we just want miners to get back into more unarmed ships so we can shoot them some more, we are so leet Roll.

Allow mining ships hulks and such to fit weapons. Enough to be able to take down those brave carebear pvp pilots (what could be more carebear than shooting things that can't shoot back) and allow them to tank a bit more. That would just be natural evolution.

You can make a special exemption for high-sec miners to be allowed to fly titans without any restrictions, and they will still fill every high slot with strips and every low with yield mods and cargo expanders.

It's not about ship stats, and never has been; it's about attitude.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#328 - 2012-05-27 07:31:01 UTC
i don't want to play in a world where a newbie mining veld in a retriever can actually make a decent profit
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#329 - 2012-05-27 07:43:06 UTC
Mining is abomination and it should seize to exist as a game mechanics.
Josef Djugashvilis
#330 - 2012-05-27 07:43:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i don't want to play in a world where a newbie mining veld in a retriever can actually make a decent profit


Then quit.

It is the ganking of miners, which leads to an increase in the cost of minerals, which enables a newbie to earn a decent profit mining in a retriever.

'Decent profit' is a relative notion.

This is not a signature.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#331 - 2012-05-27 07:51:50 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i don't want to play in a world where a newbie mining veld in a retriever can actually make a decent profit


Then quit.

There's always that other option...

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#332 - 2012-05-27 07:55:55 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
Mining is abomination and it should seize to exist as a game mechanics.


Well the word you wanted was 'cease' but your entire opinion is idiotic so I guess your choice of words is academic.
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#333 - 2012-05-27 08:07:17 UTC
Kara Vix wrote:
Tub Chil wrote:
Mining is abomination and it should seize to exist as a game mechanics.


Well the word you wanted was 'cease' but your entire opinion is idiotic so I guess your choice of words is academic.

yes thank you I wanted to use this
Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#334 - 2012-05-27 08:13:49 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
Tub Chil wrote:
Mining is abomination and it should seize to exist as a game mechanics.


Well the word you wanted was 'cease' but your entire opinion is idiotic so I guess your choice of words is academic.

yes thank you I wanted to use this


No charge Big smile You should realize though that mining is one of the driving factors of Eve. Everything derives from the minerals it produces and pvp occurs from corps fighting over the more precious sources. It is fundamental to the game so wanting it to cease as a mechanic is rather a poorly thought out idea.
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#335 - 2012-05-27 08:29:04 UTC
Kara Vix wrote:
Tub Chil wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
Tub Chil wrote:
Mining is abomination and it should seize to exist as a game mechanics.


Well the word you wanted was 'cease' but your entire opinion is idiotic so I guess your choice of words is academic.

yes thank you I wanted to use this


No charge Big smile You should realize though that mining is one of the driving factors of Eve. Everything derives from the minerals it produces and pvp occurs from corps fighting over the more precious sources. It is fundamental to the game so wanting it to cease as a mechanic is rather a poorly thought out idea.

I know but... why is it so horrible?
Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#336 - 2012-05-27 08:36:53 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
Tub Chil wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
Tub Chil wrote:
Mining is abomination and it should seize to exist as a game mechanics.


Well the word you wanted was 'cease' but your entire opinion is idiotic so I guess your choice of words is academic.

yes thank you I wanted to use this


No charge Big smile You should realize though that mining is one of the driving factors of Eve. Everything derives from the minerals it produces and pvp occurs from corps fighting over the more precious sources. It is fundamental to the game so wanting it to cease as a mechanic is rather a poorly thought out idea.

I know but... why is it so horrible?


I can't help you there. There are merits to most arguements made by people of both sides of the issue of high sec mining and ganking. I do think CCP needs to be more vocal about the issue as it is creating a divide amongst the player base that may become unrecoverable if they remain silent. PVPers need to realize that this game needs the PVE'ers to survive and some PVE'ers need to realize that PVP is also the heart of the game. It is a shame that the forums do not act as a place to interact on the subject and get the pulse of the community though, since there are a few dozen entitled posters who feel they own the forums and that anyone who disagrees with their ill thought ideas are just fodder for insults (you know who you are) and threads degenerate quickly.
Pisov viet
Perkone
Caldari State
#337 - 2012-05-27 08:59:27 UTC
Quote:


Gankers destroy Mining ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Industrial ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Mission ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Gankers destroy Ganking ships not affiliated with their Alliance resulting in those players leaving the game.

Eve Online becomes Eve Offline due to no more player subscriptions..

I can spout facts out of my ass too:

People leaving eve after getting ganked would have left the game anyway upen getting scammed, can flipped or accidently jumping in lowsec.
Red Rydah
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#338 - 2012-05-27 09:06:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Red Rydah
Didn't know we were at war against miners. What did they do? Invade a belt? Harbor weapons of mass escavation?

Oh yes, yes, yes, we must deal with these pesky miners before they destroy our very way of life!

For our children!

RR
Francisco Bizzaro
#339 - 2012-05-27 09:10:02 UTC
Kara Vix wrote:
No charge Big smile You should realize though that mining is one of the driving factors of Eve. Everything derives from the minerals it produces and pvp occurs from corps fighting over the more precious sources. It is fundamental to the game so wanting it to cease as a mechanic is rather a poorly thought out idea.

All the more reason for mining to be a challenging profession rather than a PVE "I win" button. Corporations and players who recognize the importance of minerals will develop creative ways to get the job done, and deserve to succeed over their less creative peers. Eve should reward these active, thinking players, and not have the basis of its economy placed at the mercy of AFK hulk pilots who don't understand their middle slots.
Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#340 - 2012-05-27 09:21:21 UTC
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
No charge Big smile You should realize though that mining is one of the driving factors of Eve. Everything derives from the minerals it produces and pvp occurs from corps fighting over the more precious sources. It is fundamental to the game so wanting it to cease as a mechanic is rather a poorly thought out idea.

All the more reason for mining to be a challenging profession rather than a PVE "I win" button. Corporations and players who recognize the importance of minerals will develop creative ways to get the job done, and deserve to succeed over their less creative peers. Eve should reward these active, thinking players, and not have the basis of its economy placed at the mercy of AFK hulk pilots who don't understand their middle slots.


A valid point. But how do you get around large alliances like Goons (for example, not flaming them so to speak) who have become so large that they could steamroll anyone in their path and control all of New Eden. There needs to be room for the 'small guy' to succeed. I think that by having the more precious minerals in null sec as it is now achieves this. The small time miners in high sec drinking their coffee and chatting with friends while mining Veldspar is not monopolizing the economy but providing a steady supply of the common minerals and allowing a rewarding style of gameplay for non pvp'ers. There is room in the game for both types of gameplay. (for disclosure I neither mine nor pvp, I am a mission runner only but am prepared to defend myself as I know that pvp can happen anywhere anytime)