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Fixed tax

Author
Cloe Toombs
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-10-04 10:12:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cloe Toombs
I think this was discussed in a thread a couple years ago (but it was titled, flat tax, which is of course not what was ment)

Anyway, what I'm suggesting is a corporations ability to set a fixed tax (lump sum) at some arbitrary interval (day/week/month) or whatever the devs would find most feasible.

The reasoning behind this is that certain CEO's would like to reward the more active players by comparably lower tax to their activity, and hurt those who for some reason do not participate as much. Also, for pirating and pvp corporations the current tax system does not allow to tax members who trade, invent, produce or run R&D for their income. It only taxes those who run missions or kills npc's, so even if a flat tax system like we have now is ment to be most fair to everyone, it actually ends up being the most unbalanced tax system we could have.

Some corps actually expect everyone to chip in for the benefits that a corporation may provide.

Let's have some more choice!
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-10-04 11:10:29 UTC
Cloe Toombs wrote:
Also, for pirating and pvp corporations the current tax system does not allow to tax members who trade, invent, produce or run R&D for their income. It only taxes those who run missions or kills npc's, so even if a flat tax system like we have now is ment to be most fair to everyone, it actually ends up being the most unbalanced tax system we could have.

And you don't get it. ISK generated comes from NPC sources. Always has, always will be. All the isk in game, were from killing NPC. Thats why its taxed as is, so your problem shouldn't be the "unfairness" that a fat cat industrial trader is making more isk then the NPC hunter but your inability to get your corp together and farm NPC sources. But then you also lack the foresight and go "G-Willikers! Batman! Perhaps I can work with the traders and industrialists to to produce at cost ships/modules for the corp instead of taxing them, then buying items with it."
Cloe Toombs
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-04 11:17:41 UTC
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but to add this option would allow certain type of corps to tune their corp to attract the type of player they want, and to reward those who are very active. It's a big difference paying a fixed tax and scraping together a huge income vs paying a fixed tax and barely logging on - This would make for automatically making the latter switch corps without CEO/Director intervention (ie kicking and bitching about it).

What I'm going for is simply giving the CEO/Directors more options on how to set up their corp for what they want out of it, good or bad.

edit: typo
Aidan Patrick
Aldebaran Foundation
#4 - 2011-10-04 11:51:17 UTC
Cloe Toombs wrote:
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but to add this option would allow certain type of corps to tune their corp to attract the type of player they want, and to reward those who are very active. It's a big difference paying a fixed tax and scraping together a huge income vs paying a fixed tax and barely logging on - This would make for automatically making the latter switch corps without CEO/Director intervention (ie kicking and bitching about it).

What I'm going for is simply giving the CEO/Directors more options on how to set up their corp for what they want out of it, good or bad.

edit: typo


This has my support because I could see this being applied in my corp (assuming I ever start recruiting). Heres how:

I want to have multiple 'departments'. For instance a mining/manufacturing department (which does not generate ISK for the corp via tax) and a Incursion department (which does provide ISK via tax).

Now; I've been debating heavily on how I should run taxes in the corp, mainly due to the fact that setting a tax rate primarily effects the Incursion pilots as they will be doing the actual NPC killing. The miners/manufacturers don't actually contribute liquid ISK to the corporation.

Because miners and manufacturers aren't directly contributing ISK; how am I supposed to expect my Incursion pilots to not feel ripped off when their tax money is spent on things to make the lives of the industrialists easier?

The option would be nice. Hell, I'd even like the opportunity to do both for certain situations. And I know there are corps out there who charge their members a weekly rate to be part of the corp. One of the recruitment ads up wants 50m per member, per week to support a rented system in nullsec.

Basically, the OP isn't the only one who would make use of this.

It wont let me have an empty signature...

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-10-04 15:38:43 UTC
Aidan Patrick wrote:
I want to have multiple 'departments'. For instance a mining/manufacturing department (which does not generate ISK for the corp via tax) and a Incursion department (which does provide ISK via tax).

Now; I've been debating heavily on how I should run taxes in the corp, mainly due to the fact that setting a tax rate primarily effects the Incursion pilots as they will be doing the actual NPC killing. The miners/manufacturers don't actually contribute liquid ISK to the corporation.

Because miners and manufacturers aren't directly contributing ISK; how am I supposed to expect my Incursion pilots to not feel ripped off when their tax money is spent on things to make the lives of the industrialists easier?

And another one doesn't get it. What you want is warm bodies in the corp instead of a cognitive working organizaiton.

Your miners, manufacturers, and traders should be creating items for the corp. Your aggressive types should be buying from them to save money at cost. Anything left over, should be going into the wallet of noncombantants because the creative aspect of EVE is the most boring out of all the MMO's out there (crafting systems) where as the destructive part of EVE is far more exciting because auto-attack a MOB is nothing compared to things like spy infilitration and hotdrops, it takes less effort to loose something then it takes to create it in EVE.

Here is an idea, why don't you try helping out your industrialists by hauling or collecting materials, help with the POS and research, that kind of stuff cause its a hell of alot more work hauling **** around and making sure to keep the research que on shedule then Right click -> 0 on a incursion site and hitting an F-key to activate guns. Maybe if you shared the work load, your non-combat pilots would have free time to help in an incursion site. So recap -> You spend less time generating liquid isk, help the manufactures with the work load, and this in turn gives more free time to the manufacture to help generate liquid isk via NPC fountains.
Plyn
Uncharted.
#6 - 2011-10-04 15:46:46 UTC
Just pay people (weekly/monthly/whatever) based on their contributions. It's like a tax-return.
Cloe Toombs
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-04 18:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cloe Toombs
Aqriue wrote:
Aidan Patrick wrote:
I want to have multiple 'departments'. For instance a mining/manufacturing department (which does not generate ISK for the corp via tax) and a Incursion department (which does provide ISK via tax).

Now; I've been debating heavily on how I should run taxes in the corp, mainly due to the fact that setting a tax rate primarily effects the Incursion pilots as they will be doing the actual NPC killing. The miners/manufacturers don't actually contribute liquid ISK to the corporation.

Because miners and manufacturers aren't directly contributing ISK; how am I supposed to expect my Incursion pilots to not feel ripped off when their tax money is spent on things to make the lives of the industrialists easier?

And another one doesn't get it. What you want is warm bodies in the corp instead of a cognitive working organizaiton.

Your miners, manufacturers, and traders should be creating items for the corp. Your aggressive types should be buying from them to save money at cost. Anything left over, should be going into the wallet of noncombantants because the creative aspect of EVE is the most boring out of all the MMO's out there (crafting systems) where as the destructive part of EVE is far more exciting because auto-attack a MOB is nothing compared to things like spy infilitration and hotdrops, it takes less effort to loose something then it takes to create it in EVE.

Here is an idea, why don't you try helping out your industrialists by hauling or collecting materials, help with the POS and research, that kind of stuff cause its a hell of alot more work hauling **** around and making sure to keep the research que on shedule then Right click -> 0 on a incursion site and hitting an F-key to activate guns. Maybe if you shared the work load, your non-combat pilots would have free time to help in an incursion site. So recap -> You spend less time generating liquid isk, help the manufactures with the work load, and this in turn gives more free time to the manufacture to help generate liquid isk via NPC fountains.


Stay on topic please.

When it comes to just warm bodies or not, a fixed tax could in some situations actually help grow a more cognitive organization as you put it, as some of the lazier members might actually get off their ass and join up with the isk grinding groups more often to earn some isk, now that they're paying tax either way. Just saying.

And as you may or may not know, corps who involve themselves in wars and pirating rarely have builders/haulers and inventors in the same corp, but rather in npc corps to keep them safe, thus they would never generate income to the original corporation in the first place regardless of tax type. And neither would they generate items or otherwise for that corp, but rather fill the wallets of the main character so he/she can continue to support their lolgank and pvp habit.
Cloe Toombs
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-10-04 18:18:48 UTC
Plyn wrote:
Just pay people (weekly/monthly/whatever) based on their contributions. It's like a tax-return.


You could use your fixed tax for that too, sure.
Aidan Patrick
Aldebaran Foundation
#9 - 2011-10-05 01:44:25 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Aidan Patrick wrote:
I want to have multiple 'departments'. For instance a mining/manufacturing department (which does not generate ISK for the corp via tax) and a Incursion department (which does provide ISK via tax).

Now; I've been debating heavily on how I should run taxes in the corp, mainly due to the fact that setting a tax rate primarily effects the Incursion pilots as they will be doing the actual NPC killing. The miners/manufacturers don't actually contribute liquid ISK to the corporation.

Because miners and manufacturers aren't directly contributing ISK; how am I supposed to expect my Incursion pilots to not feel ripped off when their tax money is spent on things to make the lives of the industrialists easier?

And another one doesn't get it. What you want is warm bodies in the corp instead of a cognitive working organizaiton.

Your miners, manufacturers, and traders should be creating items for the corp. Your aggressive types should be buying from them to save money at cost. Anything left over, should be going into the wallet of noncombantants because the creative aspect of EVE is the most boring out of all the MMO's out there (crafting systems) where as the destructive part of EVE is far more exciting because auto-attack a MOB is nothing compared to things like spy infilitration and hotdrops, it takes less effort to loose something then it takes to create it in EVE.

Here is an idea, why don't you try helping out your industrialists by hauling or collecting materials, help with the POS and research, that kind of stuff cause its a hell of alot more work hauling **** around and making sure to keep the research que on shedule then Right click -> 0 on a incursion site and hitting an F-key to activate guns. Maybe if you shared the work load, your non-combat pilots would have free time to help in an incursion site. So recap -> You spend less time generating liquid isk, help the manufactures with the work load, and this in turn gives more free time to the manufacture to help generate liquid isk via NPC fountains.


While you have valid input, in a sense... what you are doing here is trying to dictate how a corporation should run its business based on your opinions of how it should be done.

The point of this idea is not to dictate how a corporation should be ran; it's to allow more options for how to run them. If you're unhappy with a fixed tax rate should it be implimented, just don't join a corporation that uses one. Just like you wouldn't join a corporation that charges too high of a tax rate.

It wont let me have an empty signature...

Goose99
#10 - 2011-10-05 01:54:10 UTC
Confirming that's not how a tax works, irl or in Eve.

You can't tax what people don't have. What happens if your mafia style racket tax exceeds what people have in their wallet? Any set tax irl, such as estate tax, is levied under the assumption that payee holds property whose value is far higher than tax. You tax a noob/alt with empty wallet, you get nothing, and have no power to collect non existent money.

Then, there's the issue of CEO knowing a certain player will be away for the week for work/deployment/travel, etc, and resets tax to 50 bil to empty said player's wallet.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#11 - 2011-10-05 02:00:25 UTC
Rename to Membership fee.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Goose99
#12 - 2011-10-05 02:08:45 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Rename to Membership fee.


Then:
1) No automatic payment. Without pay, the most that can happen is auto kick.
2) Ability to obtain more than one membership. Unlike citizenship, issuer of membership by definition has no right to control individual's ability to join other organizations.
Cloe Toombs
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-10-05 15:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cloe Toombs
Goose99 wrote:
Confirming that's not how a tax works, irl or in Eve.

You can't tax what people don't have. What happens if your mafia style racket tax exceeds what people have in their wallet? Any set tax irl, such as estate tax, is levied under the assumption that payee holds property whose value is far higher than tax. You tax a noob/alt with empty wallet, you get nothing, and have no power to collect non existent money.

Then, there's the issue of CEO knowing a certain player will be away for the week for work/deployment/travel, etc, and resets tax to 50 bil to empty said player's wallet.


They simply fail to pay the tax, and the CEO/director would see the bill was overdue, so then they could take appropriate action. It's not a very difficult or impossible system to implement.

Second, the tax wouldn't be automatic. A bill would be generated. However, they probably could use the automatic bill payment system. If the CEO sets the tax to 50 bill, then you're in the wrong corp m8... And you're in the wrong game if you didn't notice it on the bill before you paid it... You'd be eaten for breakfast, lunch and dinner in Jita...
Cloe Toombs
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-10-10 09:32:17 UTC
There doesn't seem to be terribly much resistance to this suggestion, so I hope the devs will look into putting it into the pipe then :)