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Have you forgotten what Eve online is about?
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Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#1 - 2012-05-26 18:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
Quote:
Set more than 21,000 years in the future, the background story of Eve Online explains that humanity, having used up most of Earth's resources through centuries of explosive population growth, began colonizing the rest of the Milky Way. In turn, this expansion also led to competition and fighting over available resources as it did on Earth, but everything changed with the discovery of a natural wormhole leading to an unexplored galaxy named "New Eden". Dozens of colonies were founded, and a structure was built to stabilize the wormhole that bridged the intergalactic colonies with the rest of human civilization, a giant gateway bearing the name "EVE". However, when the natural wormhole unexpectedly collapsed, it destroyed the gate. Cut off from the rest of humanity and supplies from Earth, the colonies of New Eden were left starved and disconnected from one another; some died out entirely. Over the eons the descendants of the colonists managed to survive and rebuild their own societies, but the memories and knowledge of humanity's origins as well as their own from Earth and the Milky Way became lost. Five major distinct societies rose to prominence from the colonies, each growing into interstellar spaceflight-capable civilizations. The states based around these colonies make up the five major factions in Eve Online: the Amarr Empire, the Caldari State, the Gallente Federation, the Minmatar Republic and the Jove Directorate.


So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?
Darth Kilth
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-05-26 19:01:07 UTC
Its a shame most rescources aren't that limited... *cough* tech moons *cough*
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#3 - 2012-05-26 19:02:27 UTC
Darth Kilth wrote:
Its a shame most rescources aren't that limited... *cough* tech moons *cough*


So go fight over them and make them limited :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2012-05-26 19:07:38 UTC
Darth Kilth wrote:
Its a shame most rescources aren't that limited... *cough* tech moons *cough*

Really? And here I thought the problem was that only a few alliances had access to them.

But if you say so… where do I sign it to pick up mine? I need to cash in on everyone having their own tech moon and the price plunges to 2 ISK/unit. Roll
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-05-26 19:43:56 UTC
Miilla wrote:
So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?


EVE is a game. It requires players to function. When a certain player demographic does all in their power to drive another player demographic out of the game, a responsible developer has a choice to make - allow it, or take steps to limit the damage. Both are legitimate, in their own way.

If they allow this behaviour and even encourage it, they run a very real risk of losing part of the player base. This is never a good thing, but the problem is further exacerbated by the fact that once these players are gone, the players that drove them out of the game might get bored and quit themselves. Which is what is sometimes referred to a "double whammy".

As it applies to EVE, if griefers and suicide gankers drive enough miners away from the game, they may run out of targets. And they sure as hell won't fight eachother because they lack testicular fortitude to fight someone who can and will actually fight back. Once that happens, they'll quit out of boredom. And the game dies. Well, not really dies, that's too dramatic. But a population drop can lead to a loss of player critical mass that will affect all other facets of the game.

The second option, do something about it? Limit how easy it is to gank someone? Might be a better way to address the problem. Griefers determined enough will still do it, but it'll curb the casual griefing, and give some miners a fighting chance.

Personally I'm not advocating either approach - I'm neither a miner nor a griefer. I have no stake at this, no matter which way it goes. But I will tell you that allowing part of the player base to drive away another part of the player base, in a sandbox game, that first and foremost claims to offer a wide variety of viable gameplay choices is not a good idea.
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#6 - 2012-05-26 19:52:23 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Miilla wrote:
So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?


EVE is a game. It requires players to function. When a certain player demographic does all in their power to drive another player demographic out of the game, a responsible developer has a choice to make - allow it, or take steps to limit the damage. Both are legitimate, in their own way.

If they allow this behaviour and even encourage it, they run a very real risk of losing part of the player base. This is never a good thing, but the problem is further exacerbated by the fact that once these players are gone, the players that drove them out of the game might get bored and quit themselves. Which is what is sometimes referred to a "double whammy".

As it applies to EVE, if griefers and suicide gankers drive enough miners away from the game, they may run out of targets. And they sure as hell won't fight eachother because they lack testicular fortitude to fight someone who can and will actually fight back. Once that happens, they'll quit out of boredom. And the game dies. Well, not really dies, that's too dramatic. But a population drop can lead to a loss of player critical mass that will affect all other facets of the game.

The second option, do something about it? Limit how easy it is to gank someone? Might be a better way to address the problem. Griefers determined enough will still do it, but it'll curb the casual griefing, and give some miners a fighting chance.

Personally I'm not advocating either approach - I'm neither a miner nor a griefer. I have no stake at this, no matter which way it goes. But I will tell you that allowing part of the player base to drive away another part of the player base, in a sandbox game, that first and foremost claims to offer a wide variety of viable gameplay choices is not a good idea.



Or just replace that demographic with another, namely replace American whiners with paying asians as in NEXON :).
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#7 - 2012-05-26 20:15:24 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Quote:
Set more than 21,000 years in the future, the background story of Eve Online explains that humanity, having used up most of Earth's resources through centuries of explosive population growth, began colonizing the rest of the Milky Way. In turn, this expansion also led to competition and fighting over available resources as it did on Earth, but everything changed with the discovery of a natural wormhole leading to an unexplored galaxy named "New Eden". Dozens of colonies were founded, and a structure was built to stabilize the wormhole that bridged the intergalactic colonies with the rest of human civilization, a giant gateway bearing the name "EVE". However, when the natural wormhole unexpectedly collapsed, it destroyed the gate. Cut off from the rest of humanity and supplies from Earth, the colonies of New Eden were left starved and disconnected from one another; some died out entirely. Over the eons the descendants of the colonists managed to survive and rebuild their own societies, but the memories and knowledge of humanity's origins as well as their own from Earth and the Milky Way became lost. Five major distinct societies rose to prominence from the colonies, each growing into interstellar spaceflight-capable civilizations. The states based around these colonies make up the five major factions in Eve Online: the Amarr Empire, the Caldari State, the Gallente Federation, the Minmatar Republic and the Jove Directorate.


So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?




This is what I mean.

People will harp on "this is EvE! HTFU" and "Go back to WoW" but this is a game that is PVP oriented over resources - resources that NEVER RUN OUT.


How many of those leet 0.0 dwellers would cry their eyes out if it became possible to mine a tech moon until it was depleted?

Would we be seeing such a NAPfest?

How populated would high sec be if it were possible to mine every roid out of a system? How about the pirate factions getting a clue and realizing they have to move out of a high sec system when everybody and their brother are taking missions to kill them? The "mission faucet" running out, and missioners having to find work elsewhere.


Every war we have seen in history boils down to resources: either the protection of them, or the taking of them, or in many cases, the projected need for them and the politics, of which war is "by other means" and the resistance to it thereof.

Unlimited resources are what makes this game miss the mark over what everybody says it's supposed to be about. If missions and roids in high sec were limited, people would fight over it and there would be actual real war declarations aimed at securing resources instead of the usual 10 high SP greifers versus 3 miners BS that gives war decs a bad reputation. If tech moons can be mined flat or to such extent that it would have be left alone for a year to replenish , we would not be seeing a deserted 0.0 space ringed by gate blobs manned by renters and slaves. No these leet players who say this is all about PVP would actually be engaging in PVP with each other instead of trying to claim that gate camping is PVP.

CCP should demonstrate some Roden-sized bawls (read "Templar One" for an idea of how huge Roden's cajones are) here they would make resources, missions, roids, moons, gas, etc, limited and this game would become everything that everybody who ever padded their KB with a rookie ship says it should be.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Avid Bumhumper
Beekeepers Anonymous
#8 - 2012-05-26 20:33:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Avid Bumhumper
Miilla wrote:
Darth Kilth wrote:
Its a shame most rescources aren't that limited... *cough* tech moons *cough*


So go fight over them and make them limited :)



Just out of curiousity, how would you go about doing that?

The Techholders have banded together half of nullsec to protect their moons.
They play risk free PVP due to the fact that no matter what they lose, it can be replaced instantly. They can put every capable pilot in a cap or supercap without even cutting into their isk flow.

So, how would you combat that...sell tons of plex and use real money? Mine? Rat? Do nerfed Incursions?

With your infinite wisdom, I'm sure you'll come up with something.....Roll

Oh, and Tech brings in so much ISK, that it's unlimited....so how does that work into your theory of "Limited resources"?

My Tinfoil hat has been sugically implanted, so no,it is not for sale.....
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#9 - 2012-05-26 20:34:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
Miilla wrote:
Quote:
Set more than 21,000 years in the future, the background story of Eve Online explains that humanity, having used up most of Earth's resources through centuries of explosive population growth, began colonizing the rest of the Milky Way. In turn, this expansion also led to competition and fighting over available resources as it did on Earth, but everything changed with the discovery of a natural wormhole leading to an unexplored galaxy named "New Eden". Dozens of colonies were founded, and a structure was built to stabilize the wormhole that bridged the intergalactic colonies with the rest of human civilization, a giant gateway bearing the name "EVE". However, when the natural wormhole unexpectedly collapsed, it destroyed the gate. Cut off from the rest of humanity and supplies from Earth, the colonies of New Eden were left starved and disconnected from one another; some died out entirely. Over the eons the descendants of the colonists managed to survive and rebuild their own societies, but the memories and knowledge of humanity's origins as well as their own from Earth and the Milky Way became lost. Five major distinct societies rose to prominence from the colonies, each growing into interstellar spaceflight-capable civilizations. The states based around these colonies make up the five major factions in Eve Online: the Amarr Empire, the Caldari State, the Gallente Federation, the Minmatar Republic and the Jove Directorate.


So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?



You cannot even read.

After all that fighting for resources, THEN the WH was discovered and THEN New Eden began and they built the 'new world'.

It says nothing of their behavior after that.

Wrong as always you are.

***
Pisov viet
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-05-26 20:41:53 UTC
Avid Bumhumper wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Darth Kilth wrote:
Its a shame most rescources aren't that limited... *cough* tech moons *cough*


So go fight over them and make them limited :)



Just out of curiousity, how would you go about doing that?

The Techholders have banded together half of nullsec to protect their moons.



The old NC had banded together to protect their moon, until the DRF came and banded together to take and protect these moons. And then the CFC came to take a good chunck of these moon and protect them afterward.

If there were that many people unsatisfied with the current moon distribution, I have no doubt they'll find a way to band together and take them, and protect them. Unless, of course, they are not that numerous, or not that organized, or not that competent, or not that determined.
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#11 - 2012-05-26 21:17:02 UTC
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Quote:
Set more than 21,000 years in the future, the background story of Eve Online explains that humanity, having used up most of Earth's resources through centuries of explosive population growth, began colonizing the rest of the Milky Way. In turn, this expansion also led to competition and fighting over available resources as it did on Earth, but everything changed with the discovery of a natural wormhole leading to an unexplored galaxy named "New Eden". Dozens of colonies were founded, and a structure was built to stabilize the wormhole that bridged the intergalactic colonies with the rest of human civilization, a giant gateway bearing the name "EVE". However, when the natural wormhole unexpectedly collapsed, it destroyed the gate. Cut off from the rest of humanity and supplies from Earth, the colonies of New Eden were left starved and disconnected from one another; some died out entirely. Over the eons the descendants of the colonists managed to survive and rebuild their own societies, but the memories and knowledge of humanity's origins as well as their own from Earth and the Milky Way became lost. Five major distinct societies rose to prominence from the colonies, each growing into interstellar spaceflight-capable civilizations. The states based around these colonies make up the five major factions in Eve Online: the Amarr Empire, the Caldari State, the Gallente Federation, the Minmatar Republic and the Jove Directorate.


So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?



You cannot even read.

After all that fighting for resources, THEN the WH was discovered and THEN New Eden began and they built the 'new world'.

It says nothing of their behavior after that.

Wrong as always you are.


Can't quote either, apparently, since the caps portion in OP's post contains the additional words "scarce and limited," added to the original.

What did OP think, we would all swoon at the brilliance of the revelation? Resources are neither scarce nor limited in the game, no matter what the back story says.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-05-26 21:30:03 UTC
Pisov viet wrote:
If there were that many people unsatisfied with the current moon distribution, I have no doubt they'll find a way to band together and take them, and protect them. Unless, of course, they are not that numerous, or not that organized, or not that competent, or not that determined.


Unfortunately, (and especially after loosing brain cells reading this cesspool forum), no matter any potential outcome, there would be the hard accusations of potential taint by CCP or individual developers.

Moon Holding Alliance versus Up-Start Alliance

- During the battle, the server can not withstand the onslaught and crashes, causing some to many of one alliance to be dropped from the game. Neither alliance would accept the other alliance was victorious and complain to CCP to do something to correct the issue.
- If CCP does an emergency reboot or a rare reset, then accusations fly that the loosing alliance is in cahoots with CCP.

- Moon Holding Alliance is victorious and the forums will be flooded with propaganda about how hardcore these members are while telling everyone else they need to harden the **** up. Up-Start Alliance will proclaim that the other alliance is too massive and CCP needs to do something about huge power blocks.

- Up-Start Alliance is victorious and Moon Holding Alliance will loudly disclaim they did not want those moons anyway while boldly claiming they are quite tired of this game and all 200,00 accounts will be leaving shortly.

- Depending upon how the forums and general populace of players view the winning alliance, if CCP does nothing to the prized moons, then both the winners and developers are beer (and potential more) buddies.
- But if CCP does decide to take a look at these prized moons, then another outbreak of complaints on the forums that CCP
is helping the loosing alliance by fixing a broken aspect to the game or alleviating the overall losses by redistribution into an easier, more claimable form of gathering these moons' resources.
- And depending upon how fast or how slow CCP reacts, more forum complaints that CCP is helping their buddy alliance by quickly patching changes or stalling for time.

Pretty sure I have forgotten something.
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-05-26 21:32:00 UTC
Miilla wrote:

So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?


There's a backstory?

IMO since the game is a sandbox then you can't complain if someone wants to run missions.

Or if someone wants to kill a mission runner in hisec.



Tippia wrote:
Really? And here I thought the problem was that only a few alliances had access to the (tech moons).


I've read from the mittiani's articles on one of the gaming sites that this is the case and that most of the groups with the tech moons have formed a cartel. I don't know if either part is true though given the source.

I can has blogging skills!
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#14 - 2012-05-26 21:42:39 UTC
Pisov viet wrote:
Avid Bumhumper wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Darth Kilth wrote:
Its a shame most rescources aren't that limited... *cough* tech moons *cough*


So go fight over them and make them limited :)



Just out of curiousity, how would you go about doing that?

The Techholders have banded together half of nullsec to protect their moons.



The old NC had banded together to protect their moon, until the DRF came and banded together to take and protect these moons. And then the CFC came to take a good chunck of these moon and protect them afterward.

If there were that many people unsatisfied with the current moon distribution, I have no doubt they'll find a way to band together and take them, and protect them. Unless, of course, they are not that numerous, or not that organized, or not that competent, or not that determined.


I m biased to believe its actually the 4 things, most players aren't that organized, competent, determined and numerous as goons.


so basically what we have is a bunch of useless people wandering around like lost cows and a big bad ass MI-26 gunning down each cow that tries to do anything that resembles one of those 4 characteriztics.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-05-26 21:50:56 UTC
Miilla wrote:
So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?

Did you ever know?

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Serene Repose
#16 - 2012-05-26 22:00:21 UTC
I love it when Miilla preaches about the game. He who spends so much time in Rens peddling Hulk contracts and no ship included. Just the asking price. If the OP calls that playing...I don't have much use for his opinions on the game.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Josef Djugashvilis
#17 - 2012-05-26 22:13:44 UTC
Eve has a story line?

This is not a signature.
Bl4ck Ph03n1x
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-05-26 22:34:27 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Quote:
Set more than 21,000 years in the future, the background story of Eve Online explains that humanity, having used up most of Earth's resources through centuries of explosive population growth, began colonizing the rest of the Milky Way. In turn, this expansion also led to competition and fighting over available resources as it did on Earth, but everything changed with the discovery of a natural wormhole leading to an unexplored galaxy named "New Eden". Dozens of colonies were founded, and a structure was built to stabilize the wormhole that bridged the intergalactic colonies with the rest of human civilization, a giant gateway bearing the name "EVE". However, when the natural wormhole unexpectedly collapsed, it destroyed the gate. Cut off from the rest of humanity and supplies from Earth, the colonies of New Eden were left starved and disconnected from one another; some died out entirely. Over the eons the descendants of the colonists managed to survive and rebuild their own societies, but the memories and knowledge of humanity's origins as well as their own from Earth and the Milky Way became lost. Five major distinct societies rose to prominence from the colonies, each growing into interstellar spaceflight-capable civilizations. The states based around these colonies make up the five major factions in Eve Online: the Amarr Empire, the Caldari State, the Gallente Federation, the Minmatar Republic and the Jove Directorate.


So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?




This is what I mean.

People will harp on "this is EvE! HTFU" and "Go back to WoW" but this is a game that is PVP oriented over resources - resources that NEVER RUN OUT.


How many of those leet 0.0 dwellers would cry their eyes out if it became possible to mine a tech moon until it was depleted?

Would we be seeing such a NAPfest?

How populated would high sec be if it were possible to mine every roid out of a system? How about the pirate factions getting a clue and realizing they have to move out of a high sec system when everybody and their brother are taking missions to kill them? The "mission faucet" running out, and missioners having to find work elsewhere.


Every war we have seen in history boils down to resources: either the protection of them, or the taking of them, or in many cases, the projected need for them and the politics, of which war is "by other means" and the resistance to it thereof.

Unlimited resources are what makes this game miss the mark over what everybody says it's supposed to be about. If missions and roids in high sec were limited, people would fight over it and there would be actual real war declarations aimed at securing resources instead of the usual 10 high SP greifers versus 3 miners BS that gives war decs a bad reputation. If tech moons can be mined flat or to such extent that it would have be left alone for a year to replenish , we would not be seeing a deserted 0.0 space ringed by gate blobs manned by renters and slaves. No these leet players who say this is all about PVP would actually be engaging in PVP with each other instead of trying to claim that gate camping is PVP.

CCP should demonstrate some Roden-sized bawls (read "Templar One" for an idea of how huge Roden's cajones are) here they would make resources, missions, roids, moons, gas, etc, limited and this game would become everything that everybody who ever padded their KB with a rookie ship says it should be.



This, CCP.

Don't feed the trolls.
nodcaleb
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-05-26 22:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: nodcaleb
As others have said, its about conflict and the war over resources, but with people and alliances living off near unlimited amounts of isk from the tech moons, the war part doesn't really happen in the way that CCP wants it to.

After i started playing back in 2010 and after watching a few of the trailers and ccp videos, I can add in the words of Indiana Jones

"Fortune and Glory kid, Fortune and Glory" says it better

I wouldn't mind the tech moons begin depletable though, then alliances would have to fight for resources properly
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
#20 - 2012-05-27 00:25:42 UTC
Miilla wrote:
So... given the back story for Eve online, why are people crying about "FIGHTING OVER AVAILABLE SCARCE AND LIMITED RESOURCES"?

I don't get it... isn't this what Eve is about? Why on earth would you whine and cry about people fighting over scarce resources (ORE for example) by killing those mining it (just one example). This is what the game you purchased is about, did you not read the product description?


Eve is about what the people playing it want it to be about. And I want it to be about murder.
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