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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Spying on the test server

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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#61 - 2012-05-26 13:12:50 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm pretty sure you didn't read them so go ahead and do so again.
Well then congratulations, you are wrong. I have indeed read them. The sticky that details the Hydra/Outbreak ban is the "Teams Removed from Competition".
Quote:
It was widely known after the finals last year that Hydra Reloaded and Outbreak. had worked together as a single unit in order to game the competition. It was our hope that they would take their winnings and enter this year’s tournament as separate entities without having to consider a replay of last year. They are both individually highly competitive teams and when they are working in their own interests they are among the best. Unfortunately Hydra and Outbreak are working from the same playbook as last year, practicing together in a single corporation on the test server in a single wormhole. We view them as they represent themselves, which mirrors how they represented themselves last year, as a single entity. For that reason they are barred from competition having entered the tournament masquerading as two units while functioning in reality as one.
So then the reason you banned them is because you view them as a single entity.... because they worked together... in a single corp, in a single wormhole. (Semantics. Fun.)

Yet strangely enough their emails did ask if they could work together on SiSi, and whether or not that was breaking the rules. Y'know, those emails that you seem to think are irrelevant and didn't bother to respond to. And what's also strange is that the petition response did say they could share fits and work together. And then when they do, you view them as "masquerading as two units while functioning in reality as one".

So once again, how do you not see that as a problem?
Shiroi Okami
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#62 - 2012-05-26 13:13:58 UTC
While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.

My Latest Video: Freestyle III
Qlfon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-05-26 13:24:07 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I can recommend the two stickied threads at the top of the forum if you are truly looking for an explanation.


So i did, today, yesterday and day before.

And everytime i get in there i read:

Quote:
Sparring against each other and testing ship setups is not breaking the rules as the GM rightly stated. It is still not breaking the rules.


So, you have to admit, they are not same people, and it was all legit, as you say this it not breaking the rules.

Then this follows and here i have difficulty understanding, because they were asking in e-mails about such situation, that they may have problems with the number of people available for training.

Quote:
However, that is not the activity which these teams were engaged in. As of our count yesterday 28 players had moved on SISI from Outbreak to Hydra. They were acting as a single team and a single organization for whatever purposes, which is similar to the problems that were the actual basis for these rule’s creation.


This is obvious, that if i'm low on numbers in my team, or i need more experienced players in given ship that training could take place, i get people from other team. I think here is that HUGE missunderstanding.

Quote:
The question was never asked, nor was the GM response given that it was ok to function as a single cohesive unit as relates to the tournament. We cannot gauge intent, but even were we to try we have only past experience to look at as we cannot (yet) predict the future. Had they simply entered as a single team, as they were operating, this would never have come into question. "Wormhole logistics" are also not an acceptable response as A) You're choosing to be in a wormhole and B) You're choosing to do so with half the effort the other teams would need to put in to do so.


Question you talking about were asked, and they got green light, i think many people will agree.
But You insist that they were working for one team and You you have the audacity to tell them they themselves are to blame, and teach them how to make logistics/training:
Quote:
A) You're choosing to be in a wormhole and B) You're choosing to do so with half the effort the other teams would need to put in to do so.


Sorry, Mr Sreegs, but i missed somewhere important information, how many Alliance Tournaments did you WON?
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-05-26 13:53:19 UTC
I like Sreegs as a bot/rmt ban hammer... not as anything to do with atx... he is doing a horrible job so far talking to the community... he is talking down to people... being like Hilmar before if was put in his place...

My old ceo was always good at telling me when to shut up when I was hurting my corps public image, and potentially causing a pr issue... maybe your ceo should do the same... also, stick to what you are good at and don't do alliance tourny next year

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CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#65 - 2012-05-26 14:30:23 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
I like Sreegs as a bot/rmt ban hammer... not as anything to do with atx... he is doing a horrible job so far talking to the community... he is talking down to people... being like Hilmar before if was put in his place...

My old ceo was always good at telling me when to shut up when I was hurting my corps public image, and potentially causing a pr issue... maybe your ceo should do the same... also, stick to what you are good at and don't do alliance tourny next year


Post it in a few more threads buddy I didn't see this same thing in the last one.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Karbox Delacroix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-05-26 14:57:04 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Nebula XII wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Nebula XII wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview.


The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal.
So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it.


By all means keep deflecting from the fact that you got kicked out for what you did though. Not for getting prizes last year or for sending emails.

What you did.

No amount of vague conspiracy drivel or insinuation of wrongdoing will change that.


Of course we did that because you framed us
And now we're caught with a gun over a dead body, nice job.


If catching you doing bad things is framing you then I guess you're right. Sorry bro the system's corrupt. You can stop posting about it now because we're just going to get you anyway.


It is called entrapment. Asking the authority if it is ok to do something, having the authority say yes, and then getting punished for doing it is a textbook definition of entrapment. It would be like pre GCC changes asking a GM if you could use a tornado to warp around grid and pop multiple people, being told yes, and then being banned for exploits.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#67 - 2012-05-26 15:12:55 UTC
So, why is CCP allowing this thread to go off topic about teams spying in wormholes on each other? All bad posters should have their posts removed immediately.
Mercurial Blood
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#68 - 2012-05-26 15:14:02 UTC
Sreegs, in all honestly we can't stop you from acting this way.

But I want to address you on one point. From everything that has been shown and talked about, you simply MUST admit that there is a double standard here.

The communication you were able to give to RedVsBlue, but not Hydra or Outbreak just makes no sense to me.

I am obviously biased, and even discounting anything relating to the GM mail, how is it acceptable that no one replied to the multiple emails we sent to the alliance tournament team, regardless of how you feel they were vague or not. If they were vague, you should reply asking for clarification, that's how communication works. Not with "Oh, its those guys, screw them", just because you have a bone to pick and in your mind we have to be walking on thin ice.

Now I can't know for sure if this is just a result of a personal vendetta of yours, but from all your posts its sure as hell looking like it.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#69 - 2012-05-26 15:14:52 UTC
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Nebula XII wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Nebula XII wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview.


The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal.
So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it.


By all means keep deflecting from the fact that you got kicked out for what you did though. Not for getting prizes last year or for sending emails.

What you did.

No amount of vague conspiracy drivel or insinuation of wrongdoing will change that.


Of course we did that because you framed us
And now we're caught with a gun over a dead body, nice job.


If catching you doing bad things is framing you then I guess you're right. Sorry bro the system's corrupt. You can stop posting about it now because we're just going to get you anyway.


It is called entrapment. Asking the authority if it is ok to do something, having the authority say yes, and then getting punished for doing it is a textbook definition of entrapment. It would be like pre GCC changes asking a GM if you could use a tornado to warp around grid and pop multiple people, being told yes, and then being banned for exploits.


thanks for explaining your interpretation of a legal word for me buddy but this isn't the real world nor is it applicable

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#70 - 2012-05-26 15:15:10 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
So, why is CCP allowing this thread to go off topic about teams spying in wormholes on each other? All bad posters should have their posts removed immediately.


I agree

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#71 - 2012-05-26 15:15:49 UTC
Mercurial Blood wrote:
Sreegs, in all honestly we can't stop you from acting this way.

But I want to address you on one point. From everything that has been shown and talked about, you simply MUST admit that there is a double standard here.

The communication you were able to give to RedVsBlue, but not Hydra or Outbreak just makes no sense to me.

I am obviously biased, and even discounting anything relating to the GM mail, how is it acceptable that no one replied to the multiple emails we sent to the alliance tournament team, regardless of how you feel they were vague or not. If they were vague, you should reply asking for clarification, that's how communication works. Not with "Oh, its those guys, screw them", just because you have a bone to pick and in your mind we have to be walking on thin ice.

Now I can't know for sure if this is just a result of a personal vendetta of yours, but from all your posts its sure as hell looking like it.


hey maybe if you guys make 3 more threads about it I'll give you the answer you want to hear instead of the same one I've been giving from the get go

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Mercurial Blood
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#72 - 2012-05-26 15:20:59 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Mercurial Blood wrote:
Sreegs, in all honestly we can't stop you from acting this way.

But I want to address you on one point. From everything that has been shown and talked about, you simply MUST admit that there is a double standard here.

The communication you were able to give to RedVsBlue, but not Hydra or Outbreak just makes no sense to me.

I am obviously biased, and even discounting anything relating to the GM mail, how is it acceptable that no one replied to the multiple emails we sent to the alliance tournament team, regardless of how you feel they were vague or not. If they were vague, you should reply asking for clarification, that's how communication works. Not with "Oh, its those guys, screw them", just because you have a bone to pick and in your mind we have to be walking on thin ice.

Now I can't know for sure if this is just a result of a personal vendetta of yours, but from all your posts its sure as hell looking like it.


hey maybe if you guys make 3 more threads about it I'll give you the answer you want to hear instead of the same one I've been giving from the get go


You have never satisfactorily addressed why you (or the ATX team) never responded to our emails. I have been no-life'ing it here and I am pretty sure I have read at least 95% of all of your posts on this.

I just want a direct response to that one question, that isn't "I thought the question was too vague so it wasn't worth responding to" because that is nonsensical.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#73 - 2012-05-26 15:31:34 UTC
Mercurial Blood wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Mercurial Blood wrote:
Sreegs, in all honestly we can't stop you from acting this way.

But I want to address you on one point. From everything that has been shown and talked about, you simply MUST admit that there is a double standard here.

The communication you were able to give to RedVsBlue, but not Hydra or Outbreak just makes no sense to me.

I am obviously biased, and even discounting anything relating to the GM mail, how is it acceptable that no one replied to the multiple emails we sent to the alliance tournament team, regardless of how you feel they were vague or not. If they were vague, you should reply asking for clarification, that's how communication works. Not with "Oh, its those guys, screw them", just because you have a bone to pick and in your mind we have to be walking on thin ice.

Now I can't know for sure if this is just a result of a personal vendetta of yours, but from all your posts its sure as hell looking like it.


hey maybe if you guys make 3 more threads about it I'll give you the answer you want to hear instead of the same one I've been giving from the get go


You have never satisfactorily addressed why you (or the ATX team) never responded to our emails. I have been no-life'ing it here and I am pretty sure I have read at least 95% of all of your posts on this.

I just want a direct response to that one question, that isn't "I thought the question was too vague so it wasn't worth responding to" because that is nonsensical.


Stop shitting up threads.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#74 - 2012-05-26 17:24:11 UTC
Shiroi Okami wrote:
While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.

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Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Tawa Suyo
C.O.D.E
#75 - 2012-05-26 17:42:08 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
Shiroi Okami wrote:
While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.
DA Cassel
Svenska Rymdbolaget
#76 - 2012-05-26 17:47:12 UTC
Tawa Suyo wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
Shiroi Okami wrote:
While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.




This is a realy good post, could somebody from ccp who isnt furios please answer.
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#77 - 2012-05-26 18:01:53 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
Shiroi Okami wrote:
While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.
Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
#78 - 2012-05-26 18:16:49 UTC
DA Cassel wrote:
Shiroi Okami wrote:
While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.


This is a realy good post, could somebody from ccp who isnt furios please answer.


I'd like to know as well.

Blahblah
Karbox Delacroix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-05-26 18:26:47 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:


thanks for explaining your interpretation of a legal word for me buddy but this isn't the real world nor is it applicable


Glad to provide the service, because the issue is not one of being framed, it is about entrapment. Regarding your quip about this not being the real world (eve is real joke) that doesn't matter. It is a legal principle, like presumption of innocence or the proper chain of evidence. No one is forced to accept any legal principle, but they do enlighten our understanding of fair play and due process.
Kan'loch Lacoud
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2012-05-26 18:29:22 UTC
This seems a bit déja vu.


Keep up the good work Sreegs, it's refreshing to see a developer just boosh forum bitching instead of kowtowing to it.