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Revisiting the rattle snake. Keeping it passive or going active.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-05-25 23:32:49 UTC
I have a passive shield tanked RS that has been collecting dust since I got to the point of using T2 cruise missiles on the SNI/CNR. With the Drona damage amplifiers it may be time to give it a new lease on life. This does present me with a dilemma. It's currently passive fit. T1 purger rigs, so if I do switch the loss is inconsequential, but I'm wondering it it's worthwhile to give up the tank that shrugs of everything a lvl 4 can throw at it for a much weaker active tank. This would, however, have the added advantage of freeing up more lows for the new damage mod.

Unfortunately I'm in a place that I cannot load up EFT and play with it now that EFT has been updated. That being the case, I was wondering if anyone else had fits using the new mod for comparison in tank and gank between passive and active tanks.

Thanks in advance.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-26 00:20:45 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I have a passive shield tanked RS that has been collecting dust since I got to the point of using T2 cruise missiles on the SNI/CNR. With the Drona damage amplifiers it may be time to give it a new lease on life. This does present me with a dilemma. It's currently passive fit. T1 purger rigs, so if I do switch the loss is inconsequential, but I'm wondering it it's worthwhile to give up the tank that shrugs of everything a lvl 4 can throw at it for a much weaker active tank. This would, however, have the added advantage of freeing up more lows for the new damage mod.

Unfortunately I'm in a place that I cannot load up EFT and play with it now that EFT has been updated. That being the case, I was wondering if anyone else had fits using the new mod for comparison in tank and gank between passive and active tanks.

Thanks in advance.


No need for that kind of tank just for lvl4s anyway. Go active.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#3 - 2012-05-26 03:29:38 UTC
Go active.

Even before on level 4's with max skills the active tank was a better way to fit more spank on a Torp set up.

Now your probly going to want to do it fit more spank on a Drone set up.

Ether way a passive Rattler was only good for soloing High sec level 5's when they were a hot iteam.

Active tank is more then good for level 4's.

Remeaber Spank is tank also.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#4 - 2012-05-26 10:28:22 UTC
Active all the way, passive is for ******** pussy Drake pilots anyway, so you don't want that. Also shame on you for training Cruise missiles to T2.


Damage on an active boosted RS or Navy Issue Dominix is godly, so take advantage of that and have a lot of fun in your 1300 DPS ship :)
Nlex
Domini Canium
#5 - 2012-05-26 15:36:58 UTC
Any examples of active shield tanked Rattlesnake or Navy Domi fits? Can they be made capstable? Or T2 only? Or capstable T2 only?
First time fitting active shield after all that armour, and it just doesn't click.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-26 16:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Nlex wrote:
Any examples of active shield tanked Rattlesnake or Navy Domi fits? Can they be made capstable? Or T2 only? Or capstable T2 only?
First time fitting active shield after all that armour, and it just doesn't click.

Given the unanimous nature of the replies I started playing around since active seems the obvious way to go:

[Rattlesnake, Active]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Ogre II x5

Cap stable for me, but I have max cap skills and shield comp V.

All V character stats:
436 Omni tank, gets better of course going rat specific
861 DPS (728 from drones) using Garde II's
Cap stable @ 40%

Thoughts?
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-05-26 16:05:21 UTC
Nlex wrote:
Any examples of active shield tanked Rattlesnake or Navy Domi fits? Can they be made capstable? Or T2 only? Or capstable T2 only?
First time fitting active shield after all that armour, and it just doesn't click.

High end mission active shield tank tend to be not cap stable. Their high damage output means that rats rarely life long enough to actually test your tank. The only reasion to want a stable active tank is for when pilots are too lazy to activate/deactivate the shiled booster. As this point you'll need to gimp your fit enough that you won't have a high end missioning boat anymore but something definately average.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-05-26 16:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Nlex wrote:
Any examples of active shield tanked Rattlesnake or Navy Domi fits? Can they be made capstable? Or T2 only? Or capstable T2 only?
First time fitting active shield after all that armour, and it just doesn't click.

High end mission active shield tank tend to be not cap stable. Their high damage output means that rats rarely life long enough to actually test your tank. The only reasion to want a stable active tank is for when pilots are too lazy to activate/deactivate the shiled booster. As this point you'll need to gimp your fit enough that you won't have a high end missioning boat anymore but something definately average.

I have the same criteria as Nlex due to not having uninterrupted play time. I've had to step away fro the PC in the middle of a mission before and most likely will again. Not exactly a safe thing to do, but keeps the tank running at least. And the one time I did try an cap boosted boat I almost lost a maelstrom. Clearly doing something wrong, but not sure what.
stoicfaux
#9 - 2012-05-26 16:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Meh. Cruise missile DPS: 305. Garde II DPS: 634. 939 total DPS. (In EFT, you can add 3x Sentry II rigs to get the damage numbers for 3x Drone Damage mods.)

Add 3x Damage Drone thingies in the empty low slots.

[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Garde II x5
Warden II x5
Bouncer II x5

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-05-27 07:23:19 UTC
Stay passive, and enjoy your 800dps afk boat.

missile damage from a snake sucks, not worth using BCses once you get your DDAs on.

this fit does 866 dps with garde IIs, and probably tanks better than a carrier, you can easily drop the spendy bits for T2 and still tank damn near anything while afk.

More than 3 DDAs is not worth it, if you have 3 DDAs sentry rigs are not worth it, the dps gain in either case is less than 20 dps.

[Rattlesnake, rattlesnake serpentis ratter]

Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Pith B-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith B-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I


Garde II x5
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#11 - 2012-05-27 21:59:21 UTC
that 866 dps is with your missiles... and without painters/rigors, well those fury missiles won't be doing a whole lot. although near 700 afk dps is pretty shibby :D

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-05-29 18:31:33 UTC
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
Stay passive, and enjoy your 800dps afk boat.

missile damage from a snake sucks, not worth using BCses once you get your DDAs on.

this fit does 866 dps with garde IIs, and probably tanks better than a carrier, you can easily drop the spendy bits for T2 and still tank damn near anything while afk.

More than 3 DDAs is not worth it, if you have 3 DDAs sentry rigs are not worth it, the dps gain in either case is less than 20 dps.

[Rattlesnake, rattlesnake serpentis ratter]

Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Pith B-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith B-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I


Garde II x5

Not sure about the 4th DDA. From what I'm seeing given the high base numbers the 4th DDA still gives a decent boost. BCS's on the other hand I do agree on. Apparently, unless you are using 5% missile ROF and damage implants a 4th DDA beats a 3 CN BCU even with fury's from what I'm seeing on EFT. And considering I won't be using fury's without Rigors + TP, I may not fit any BCU's at all.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-05-29 19:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
[Rattlesnake, New Setup 2]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Caldari Navy Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Torpedo
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I


Garde II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Ogre II x5

1.3k applied dps @ 45km
GreenSeed
#14 - 2012-05-29 21:45:00 UTC
The rattler is as AFK as they come, don’t try to boost sentry damage with torps, they just don’t work... the real in game dps is laughable. If you want max dps go with a navy dominix, now that is a Gunboat with drone support and will actually deliver 1.2kdps in game, the rattler is just a drone boat.

Still, 730 DPS with NO ammo, NO targeting, and an absolutely ******** high tracking is nothing to sneeze at. Especially if you draw agro and tab to the noctis alt, like you should.

I actually fit t2 rocket launchers on mine, to draw full room agro you don’t need to actually "hit" them you just have to fire something at the rats. After i get agro i drop the gardes and let them chew the battleships/battlecruisers/cruisers while the rockets make short work of the frigs once they get close. Personally i feel that not swapping the sentries for lights once all the big ships are gone is a better DPS increase over trying to dps with torps. and it frees up fitting slots all over the place.

gardes with 2x faction links will hit cruisers and destroyers as if they were standing still. So you will only be firing rockets at frigs.



the only downside to rattlers is that you actually need lvl5 interfacing and lvl5 gallBS and lvl5 sentry interfacing, thats 3 months of training on those lvl5s alone. and you dont get THAT much in return for all that SP... still its a LOT more than what you would get if you inverst the millons of SP it will take to actually do some damage with torps.Lol
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#15 - 2012-05-30 00:54:11 UTC
Torps are fail in general and more so on the Rattler, just don't use em.

You shouldn't use a passive tank because it is less slot/cap efficient than an active tank and has always been on the Rattler (and all other BS). Using an active tank will free so many slots that you can afford to have 2 Omnis, 3 Rigors and a TP that will allow you to project all your drone dps as well as your missile dps to anything Cruiser sized and up.

Here's a fit:
[Rattlesnake, Active]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy EM Ward Field
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5

1000 applied dps @ 60km with Gardes or 905 dps @ 95km with Bouncers. I don't run this Rattler but I have a CNR with the same rig layout + 1 TP and I know that fury cruise missiles with that setup will hit cruisers for 90% damage and full damage for BC/BS, excellent tracking on the sentries with enough space to carry Heavies/Meds/Lights as well.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-05-30 04:21:17 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Torps are fail in general and more so on the Rattler, just don't use em.

You shouldn't use a passive tank because it is less slot/cap efficient than an active tank and has always been on the Rattler (and all other BS). Using an active tank will free so many slots that you can afford to have 2 Omnis, 3 Rigors and a TP that will allow you to project all your drone dps as well as your missile dps to anything Cruiser sized and up.

Here's a fit:
[Rattlesnake, Active]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy EM Ward Field
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5

1000 applied dps @ 60km with Gardes or 905 dps @ 95km with Bouncers. I don't run this Rattler but I have a CNR with the same rig layout + 1 TP and I know that fury cruise missiles with that setup will hit cruisers for 90% damage and full damage for BC/BS, excellent tracking on the sentries with enough space to carry Heavies/Meds/Lights as well.


Fury Cruise has exp radius a quarter larger, and exp velocity a quarter lower than torps. It won't hit anywhere near 90% on cruisers. There's a reason no one uses them.
Allyxy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-05-30 16:10:26 UTC
The propblem of Rattlesnake is not the DPS is the tank.

On paper has great stats and good tank, in reality the very large sig radius and slow motion make it very vulnerable.

Apart from lvl4 mission its almost useless, I tried to fit it for active and passive tanking with faction items, over 1.5bill fit and tried to run 0.0 plexes and well...
Ishtar to them better and cost one third of it or less.

Don't really understand why it cost so much a so stupid hull.

AY
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#18 - 2012-05-31 03:20:36 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I


1000 applied dps @ 60km with Gardes or 905 dps @ 95km with Bouncers. I don't run this Rattler but I have a CNR with the same rig layout + 1 TP and I know that fury cruise missiles with that setup will hit cruisers for 90% damage and full damage for BC/BS, excellent tracking on the sentries with enough space to carry Heavies/Meds/Lights as well.


Fury Cruise has exp radius a quarter larger, and exp velocity a quarter lower than torps. It won't hit anywhere near 90% on cruisers. There's a reason no one uses them.


and that is why you fit rigor rigs and target painters to a cruise boat! tbh I have no idea what the actual % is on cruisers but my cnr will 1 or 2 shot most of them.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#19 - 2012-05-31 06:28:55 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I


1000 applied dps @ 60km with Gardes or 905 dps @ 95km with Bouncers. I don't run this Rattler but I have a CNR with the same rig layout + 1 TP and I know that fury cruise missiles with that setup will hit cruisers for 90% damage and full damage for BC/BS, excellent tracking on the sentries with enough space to carry Heavies/Meds/Lights as well.


Fury Cruise has exp radius a quarter larger, and exp velocity a quarter lower than torps. It won't hit anywhere near 90% on cruisers. There's a reason no one uses them.


and that is why you fit rigor rigs and target painters to a cruise boat! tbh I have no idea what the actual % is on cruisers but my cnr will 1 or 2 shot most of them.


Yeap, Chainsaw knows what he's talking about, you will hit for less on elite cruisers mostly because of the speed/resists, but still nothing lower than 50% your damage, and you can always shoot BC/BS/Cruisers with your cruise while taking out Elite Cruisers with your drones to make sure you apply all your dps. Oh, and destroyers instapop with only 3 Launchers on the CNR so you should be able to do the same with this, frigs can be left to drones.

About the fury cruise vs torps, I've been using Fury Cruise on my CNR for almost a year now and I'm 100% sure that with the rig setup and TP, you can hit what matters for more damage than regular cruise. Torps explosion radius can't be made smaller by rigs, and I'm not sure how it works exactly, but smaller explosion radius helps with faster moving targets as well (need someone to confirm) and you also get a flare AND a TP to help further, Torps on the other hand are limited to TPs for damage application as you almost always need your rig slots to get decent range out of them.

Oh, and theres enough tank even with huge sig and not moving, it sports more tank/dps than my CNR that also sits still and has about the same sig.