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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Open letter to CCP and the community regarding HYDRA and OB ban from ATX

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CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#221 - 2012-05-26 14:58:17 UTC
carbomb wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
[

None of those teams had a history of cheating using the exact same methods they were using again this year. Were we not to have to enforce these new rules a conversation with PL or RvB wouldn't have been necessary because those teams would have been in.

I hope this helps but it probably won't.




I'm Sorry, where did it say that what happend in AT9 was against the rules? No rules were broken! therefore they can not be regarded as "cheats" for it.

What would probably end all this posting is an admission from sreegs and co that basically this is them hitting back at last years finalists out of spite. You outmetagamed the metagamers and fair play ccp, you did it well. Just admit that this is payback and this matter will be closed. Its pretty pathetic how you are behaving. Most people can see that this was your attempt at revenge. You really are a bunch of kids at times. You made mistakes, you tried cover them up. admit your wrong doings and move along. By the way, If one of my employee's spoke to my customers the way you do to yours you would be out on your ear! Show some professionalism, man.

also love how you hung the Senior GM who responded to Hydra/0utbreak out to dry to cover you behinds. Smooth!


Read the stickies. You seem to have missed them

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Intigo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#222 - 2012-05-26 14:59:22 UTC
Reiterating "read the stickies" does not explain anything at all. CVA & 4th considered doing the very same thing we did without being aware at all that it was not allowed because your rules were so vague that you can suit any ruling to fit your needs.

Does the fact that they had the same plan initially not give you a hint at how vague your ruleset is and how silly it is for the entire Alliance Tournament team to ignore all attempts at communication from Garmon?

And yet you instantly ban 3 teams taking all those things into consideration.

It's impressive.

hydra provail
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#223 - 2012-05-26 14:59:54 UTC
iLLeLogicaL wrote:
Even a simpleton can easily why they went off together for the sake of convenience.
And if you're a bit serious about winning, like Hydra & outbreak are.
You go practice in a wormhole.

They only need 1 corp.
They can train against worthy adversaries.
Fleet finder is a nifty handy tool when you can just tick "corporation".

And there's this super awesome feature introduced (after being pushed by an elected official of the playerbase, TwoStep) called Corporation Bookmarks.

As wormhole dwelling resident, I can tell you this one was a lifechanger.


If you're serious about winning you enter two teams and act that way. Just like every team that will be competing this year.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#224 - 2012-05-26 15:00:14 UTC
Intigo wrote:
Reiterating "read the stickies" does not explain anything at all. CVA & 4th considered doing the very same thing we did without being aware at all that it was not allowed because your rules were so vague that you can suit any ruling to fit your needs.

Does the fact that they had the same plan initially not give you a hint at how vague your ruleset is and how silly it is for the entire Alliance Tournament team to ignore all attempts at communication from Garmon?

And yet you instantly ban 3 teams taking all those things into consideration.

It's impressive.


Read the stickies.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
IamBeastx
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#225 - 2012-05-26 15:00:15 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

We did mention it somewhere it just really isn't worth my time digging it up for people who won't be participating in this year's alliance tournament.


Of course it is, you are currently the only member of CCP staff actively and publicly replying to this issue.
Most arguments are about them being completely excluded are based on no rules say 'A' teams will be banned as well if found to have 'B' / 'C' etc teams.

Your saying there is a section saying these teams will be removed but won't link/quote it.

Also, there are competing teams asking for this information so dig it up for them.

All my life i wanted to be someone, now i know i should have been more specific.
iLLeLogicaL
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#226 - 2012-05-26 15:00:38 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
iLLeLogicaL wrote:
Even a simpleton can easily why they went off together for the sake of convenience.
And if you're a bit serious about winning, like Hydra & outbreak are.
You go practice in a wormhole.

They only need 1 corp.
They can train against worthy adversaries.
Fleet finder is a nifty handy tool when you can just tick "corporation".

And there's this super awesome feature introduced (after being pushed by an elected official of the playerbase, TwoStep) called Corporation Bookmarks.

As wormhole dwelling resident, I can tell you this one was a lifechanger.


If you're serious about winning you enter two teams and act that way. Just like every team that will be competing this year.

And so they did! They just trained against each other!
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#227 - 2012-05-26 15:01:30 UTC
iLLeLogicaL wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
iLLeLogicaL wrote:
Even a simpleton can easily why they went off together for the sake of convenience.
And if you're a bit serious about winning, like Hydra & outbreak are.
You go practice in a wormhole.

They only need 1 corp.
They can train against worthy adversaries.
Fleet finder is a nifty handy tool when you can just tick "corporation".

And there's this super awesome feature introduced (after being pushed by an elected official of the playerbase, TwoStep) called Corporation Bookmarks.

As wormhole dwelling resident, I can tell you this one was a lifechanger.


If you're serious about winning you enter two teams and act that way. Just like every team that will be competing this year.

And so they did! They just trained against each other!


oh it's this old untruth again haven't seen that one before!

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#228 - 2012-05-26 15:02:36 UTC
Quote:
How can you justify banning HYDRA & Outbreak without any warning, without responding to any attempts at communication when other teams had considered doing the very same thing that HYDRA & Outbreak did in order to make wormhole practicing ENDURABLE?!


Without any warning ? Really ? Only if they were blind or didn't bother to read the rules.
ENDURABLE ? Really ? You actually think it's that hard ? Maybe you should try actually living in a wormhole before acting like being in two corps and using two poses would've been an insurmountable obstacle.

As for other teams, they would've been able to get away with more due to a lack of history of collusion, but working that closely together is pretty dubious even when it isn't hydrabreak.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#229 - 2012-05-26 15:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Sreegs
IamBeastx wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

We did mention it somewhere it just really isn't worth my time digging it up for people who won't be participating in this year's alliance tournament.


Of course it is, you are currently the only member of CCP staff actively and publicly replying to this issue.
Most arguments are about them being completely excluded are based on no rules say 'A' teams will be banned as well if found to have 'B' / 'C' etc teams.

Your saying there is a section saying these teams will be removed but won't link/quote it.

Also, there are competing teams asking for this information so dig it up for them.


Whether we'd remove both teams or not is irrelevant to the team in question who is spamming these forums at the moment. The team who won't be competing. I'll try to dig it up in a second.

:edit: here you go: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28644

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#230 - 2012-05-26 15:03:26 UTC
HYDRA RELOADED and Outbreak. (Refered to commonly as Hydra) seem to be missing the point. I still think that Outbreak. is the better team, but everyone calls them HYDRA.

It is not about words, statements, a-teams and b-teams. That is the way the rule is "worded" (which you are harping on) but that is not the point. Since you seem to be too dense to understand the meaning behind the rules, perhaps I will lay it all out for you in an easy to understand format which highlights the key points.

It is about COLLUSION.

Since you seem to not know what that is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion

And if you are too lazy to look at that here you go:

Collusion is an agreement between two or more persons, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair advantage.

Now what you did last year is you DEMONSTRATED a PATTERN of COLLUSION which NECESSITATED a RULE CHANGE which INCONVENIENCED a lot of LEGITIMATE TEAMS this year due to its IMPLEMENTATION. COLLUSION is BANNED in most tournament formats including poker for the UNFAIR ADVANTAGE that it give teams WORKING TOGETHER over the rest of the FIELD.

What you are doing this year is EXACTLY THE SAME as what you did last year, and CCP had NO CHOICE but to ban you.

Yes, you guys made a mistake. Karma is a *****.

Also to summarize what is going on in this thread.


WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BHHAHAHWWWWHHAHAAAAAAAAA WHAAA WHHAAA WHHAAAAAAAAaAAAAAa
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#231 - 2012-05-26 15:04:21 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
[quote=Suleiman Shouaa]CCP still mad due to AT IX Final (despite the semi-finals being better than most finals).
CCP staff who are dedicated to the AT chose not to respond to Hydra's emails, despite responding to other emails from other teams.
CCP bans 0utbreak/Genos, despite them having all the time in the world to tell them to knock it off if they actually wanted them in the tournament (ie. greater good for all the viewers).
CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this

:shocker:


-snipe-


I don't delete posts nor have I asked for any to be deleted. Please don't say what I did or didn't know. I'm not a psychic and neither are you. The email sent is irrelevant as I've already pointed out and I'm tired of explaining that. I'm also tired of explaining that how good someone is doesn't have any bearing on the rules or how they're applied.

I'm also tired of explaining that if I didn't want them in the tournament they wouldn't have been able to apply.

I know it all seems pretty simple when I write that but that's because it is.

You won't be seeing Hydra or Outbreak in this tournament in any form as per the stickies. I already said that as well.


When did I say you were the one deleting them? I said "CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this". Are you saying that someone outside CCP is deleting them? What?

So if all teams are treated equally regardless of how good they, how come one team was responded to but another team or two wasn't responded to?

This is what I don't understand. You're willing to work with RvB, PL etc. so they can participate. But not with 0utbreak or Genos. Why not? And don't say they're previous cheaters when there were no rules against what they did (in fact, PL did the same thing, just were less successful - no insult to PL meant).

There's a difference between being firm and just refusing to listen.
iLLeLogicaL
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#232 - 2012-05-26 15:06:01 UTC
Pulled out of context, but a truth never the less I think.
(Unless you're unlike what you say you are, a pshychic)
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Please don't say what I did or didn't know. I'm not a psychic and neither are you..


So do you have proof that this year they were going to do the same thing as last year?
Did you watch them while traininig?
Do you have a spy on their voice servers relaying you intel?
Or which source is telling you that this year's AT will be the same one as the one before?


Because if the logs show nothing, what's your decision resting on.
Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#233 - 2012-05-26 15:07:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
CCP Sreegs wrote:

No conversation was had with PL. The conversation with RvB was about how to ensure that they were functioning properly for the tournament.


And Hydra (+Outbreak) who tried to initiate a similar conversation so they could function properly in the tournament (the oft mentioned emails) did not deserve it but RvB did? Dev favouritism, plain and simple.

Edit: Off topic part removed, CCP Phantom
Karbox Delacroix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#234 - 2012-05-26 15:08:23 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:


I'm not a psychic and neither are you.


Actually, yes you are, or at least you are claiming to be. You are claiming this because you seem to be stating that because they trained together, YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, that they intended to collude together during the ATX(*) and possibly throw matches like the final ATIX.

So yes, you are claiming a motivation that is inside the mind of the individuals. You would have to be psychic to know that they were intending to collude together because they were sparring together.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#235 - 2012-05-26 15:09:35 UTC
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
[quote=Suleiman Shouaa]CCP still mad due to AT IX Final (despite the semi-finals being better than most finals).
CCP staff who are dedicated to the AT chose not to respond to Hydra's emails, despite responding to other emails from other teams.
CCP bans 0utbreak/Genos, despite them having all the time in the world to tell them to knock it off if they actually wanted them in the tournament (ie. greater good for all the viewers).
CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this

:shocker:


-snipe-


I don't delete posts nor have I asked for any to be deleted. Please don't say what I did or didn't know. I'm not a psychic and neither are you. The email sent is irrelevant as I've already pointed out and I'm tired of explaining that. I'm also tired of explaining that how good someone is doesn't have any bearing on the rules or how they're applied.

I'm also tired of explaining that if I didn't want them in the tournament they wouldn't have been able to apply.

I know it all seems pretty simple when I write that but that's because it is.

You won't be seeing Hydra or Outbreak in this tournament in any form as per the stickies. I already said that as well.


When did I say you were the one deleting them? I said "CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this". Are you saying that someone outside CCP is deleting them? What?

So if all teams are treated equally regardless of how good they, how come one team was responded to but another team or two wasn't responded to?

This is what I don't understand. You're willing to work with RvB, PL etc. so they can participate. But not with 0utbreak or Genos. Why not? And don't say they're previous cheaters when there were no rules against what they did (in fact, PL did the same thing, just were less successful - no insult to PL meant).

There's a difference between being firm and just refusing to listen.


Neither one of those teams was cheating in this way. I hope this helps.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#236 - 2012-05-26 15:09:58 UTC
iLLeLogicaL wrote:
So do you have proof that this year they were going to do the same thing as last year?
Did you watch them while traininig?
Do you have a spy on their voice servers relaying you intel?
Or which source is telling you that this year's AT will be the same one as the one before?


Because if the logs show nothing, what's your decision resting on.


You seem to be confused, CCP was never going to be able to know for sure, all they have to go on is appearances and pattern of behavior.
Hydra and 0utbreak only have themselves to blame for presenting the wrong ones.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#237 - 2012-05-26 15:10:01 UTC
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:


I'm not a psychic and neither are you.


Actually, yes you are, or at least you are claiming to be. You are claiming this because you seem to be stating that because they trained together, YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, that they intended to collude together during the ATX(*) and possibly throw matches like the final ATIX.

So yes, you are claiming a motivation that is inside the mind of the individuals. You would have to be psychic to know that they were intending to collude together because they were sparring together.


No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
iLLeLogicaL
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2012-05-26 15:11:47 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:


I'm not a psychic and neither are you.


Actually, yes you are, or at least you are claiming to be. You are claiming this because you seem to be stating that because they trained together, YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, that they intended to collude together during the ATX(*) and possibly throw matches like the final ATIX.

So yes, you are claiming a motivation that is inside the mind of the individuals. You would have to be psychic to know that they were intending to collude together because they were sparring together.


No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome.

A fact that could also easily be achieved by just banning one of them.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#239 - 2012-05-26 15:11:47 UTC
Raimo wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

No conversation was had with PL. The conversation with RvB was about how to ensure that they were functioning properly for the tournament.


And Hydra (+Outbreak) who tried to initiate a similar conversation so they could function properly in the tournament (the oft mentioned emails) did not deserve it but RvB did? Dev favouritism, plain and simple.

Also, this thread with all them (archived elsewhere) game dev responses are pure comedy gold. When the weekend is over some CCP high ups will be very interested I'm sure...



You cannot invent this stuff. Somebody who is actually employed and would assumedly need to keep his manners up :)

CCP Sreegs wrote:


Did you read the CVA thread yet?


Do you maybe speak Spanish? How do I say "Read the stickies" in Spanish? Someone help this guy out.




Ed: This


Suleiman Shouaa wrote:


This is what I don't understand. You're willing to work with RvB, PL etc. so they can participate. But not with 0utbreak or Genos. Why not? And don't say they're previous cheaters when there were no rules against what they did (in fact, PL did the same thing, just were less successful - no insult to PL meant).

There's a difference between being firm and just refusing to listen.
[/quote]

Hi you seem to have missed the stickies on this topic. Please read them. I'd say come back when you're done but you've already said the same thing enough today.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#240 - 2012-05-26 15:12:37 UTC
iLLeLogicaL wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:


I'm not a psychic and neither are you.


Actually, yes you are, or at least you are claiming to be. You are claiming this because you seem to be stating that because they trained together, YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, that they intended to collude together during the ATX(*) and possibly throw matches like the final ATIX.

So yes, you are claiming a motivation that is inside the mind of the individuals. You would have to be psychic to know that they were intending to collude together because they were sparring together.


No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome.

A fact that could also easily be achieved by just banning one of them.


Deleting TQ or cancelling the tournament would solve that problem also while we're conjecturing. I think I'm getting good at this. It's so much easier than dealing with reality thanks!

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012