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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Spying on the test server

First post
Author
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#41 - 2012-05-26 12:00:08 UTC
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Thank you for posting the email. My statement hasn't changed. I do find it amusing that you want to paint this as some giant conspiracy as if we needed some event to occur to remove you. If we truly wanted you out it as you suggest, it would have been easier and just as possible to do so up front or even last year. The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview.
You replied to the conspiracy part of my post, thanks. however, it's not something i want to discuss because it is my personal opinion.

The other part: you say, petition message was ambiguous and we didn't follow reply closely. It may be true, okay. You say, email is the same as petition, but in other words, okay.

If it's similar and ambiguous, i want you to point at the statement of email which we didn't follow and broke. I'll even split them so you can mark them with "true" or "false":

1) Hydra and 0utbreak have been different groups on TQ for the past year
2) will have different people leading the teams this year
3) We do not intend to work together or colaborate in any way in the tournament matches starting on June 30th
4) We only intend to test together in the preparation through the medium of testing on SiSi.

And the final question "Assuming that there's no collaboration between our alliances in any way in the actual tournament, apart from testing, are we classed in the A/B team criteria?" is not a statement, it just a summary with the request for your opinion, so i'm not including it.

I don't want you to write blabbing post, just statement numbers and "true" and "false", with the reasoning behind "false" if possible.


You don't have to worry about bla because the contents of the email you keep harping on are absolutely irrelevant. You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

Kadesh Priestess
Goryn Clade
#42 - 2012-05-26 12:04:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kadesh Priestess
CCP Sreegs wrote:
because the contents of the email you keep harping on are absolutely irrelevant
I'm not surprised. I'm just pointing you at the fact that petition and email requests are far from being the same meaning expressed in different words, so just avoid putting equality sign between those two.

CCP Sreegs wrote:
We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions.
But you (here i mean AT10 team) had all the unambiguous info on the intentions so could just prevent both alliaces from breaking (your interpretation of ambiguous) rule by replying "no u cant", 9 key strokes.

Can you say, did you see this email (or quotes from it) before reading Garmon's reply here?
Nebula XII
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2012-05-26 12:15:59 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview.


The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal.
So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#44 - 2012-05-26 12:22:49 UTC
Nebula XII wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview.


The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal.
So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it.


By all means keep deflecting from the fact that you got kicked out for what you did though. Not for getting prizes last year or for sending emails.

What you did.

No amount of vague conspiracy drivel or insinuation of wrongdoing will change that.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#45 - 2012-05-26 12:30:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Raimo
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
because the contents of the email you keep harping on are absolutely irrelevant
I'm not surprised. I'm just pointing you at the fact that petition and email requests are far from being the same meaning expressed in different words, so just avoid putting equality sign between those two.

CCP Sreegs wrote:
We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions.
But you (here i mean AT10 team) had all the unambiguous info on the intentions so could just prevent both alliaces from breaking (your interpretation of ambiguous) rule by replying "no u cant", 9 key strokes.

Can you say, did you see this email (or quotes from it) before reading Garmon's reply here?


Interesting question as he already took fault for not responding to them in this very thread

CCP Sreegs wrote:

The emails were just as purposely obtuse as the petition. I'll mea culpa that we should have responded but to be honest it wouldn't have changed anything ...



Edit: New somethingawhul.com CCP word, "Drivel" added to "Tears" "Spewing" and "mad"
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#46 - 2012-05-26 12:30:44 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did.
Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them.

You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously?
Nebula XII
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2012-05-26 12:31:35 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Nebula XII wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview.


The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal.
So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it.


By all means keep deflecting from the fact that you got kicked out for what you did though. Not for getting prizes last year or for sending emails.

What you did.

No amount of vague conspiracy drivel or insinuation of wrongdoing will change that.


Of course we did that because you framed us
And now we're caught with a gun over a dead body, nice job.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#48 - 2012-05-26 12:33:16 UTC
Nebula XII wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Nebula XII wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview.


The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal.
So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it.


By all means keep deflecting from the fact that you got kicked out for what you did though. Not for getting prizes last year or for sending emails.

What you did.

No amount of vague conspiracy drivel or insinuation of wrongdoing will change that.


Of course we did that because you framed us
And now we're caught with a gun over a dead body, nice job.


If catching you doing bad things is framing you then I guess you're right. Sorry bro the system's corrupt. You can stop posting about it now because we're just going to get you anyway.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

Anna Katarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-05-26 12:33:41 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did.
Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them.

You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously?


"its a trap!"

he wanted an excuse to ban them, they delivered, trusting the call of some "random gm"... i read the word "conspiracy" here a few times now, its not a conspiracy by all means, since its pretty obvious...
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#50 - 2012-05-26 12:33:52 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did.
Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them.

You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously?


You can't read stickies so I'll go ahead and re-explain that working together isn't against the rules. That isn't what happened.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#51 - 2012-05-26 12:35:07 UTC
Anna Katarr wrote:
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did.
Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them.

You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously?


"its a trap!"

he wanted an excuse to ban them, they delivered, trusting the call of some "random gm"... i read the word "conspiracy" here a few times now, its not a conspiracy by all means, since its pretty obvious...


I don't need an excuse. Doing it this way is actually a lot more work which is where these conspiracies fall apart. I think "pathetic" was the proper phrasing.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

Kalvunia IV
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2012-05-26 12:38:00 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did.
Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them.

You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously?


You can't read stickies so I'll go ahead and re-explain that working together isn't against the rules. That isn't what happened.


Then tell us what did happen, exactly what happened
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#53 - 2012-05-26 12:39:02 UTC
Kalvunia IV wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did.
Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them.

You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously?


You can't read stickies so I'll go ahead and re-explain that working together isn't against the rules. That isn't what happened.


Then tell us what did happen, exactly what happened


There's two stickies at the top of the forum you seem to want to ignore so I'll just go ahead and tell you there's two stickies at the top of the forum until you figure out how this works.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

Qlfon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-05-26 12:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Qlfon
Mr Sreegs wants to say, that Outbreak./Hydra guys were only asking about training together, and they got permission only for that, but they went far and merged into ONE corp, right?
But Mr Sreegs, do preffer BAN them without even warning, or answering any of their emails, he don't want to listen explanations that they were merged into one corp due to logistics effort.
Mr Sreegs is security guy in CCP, there is no better person in whole CCP Team to check if they were sharing accounts or were logging in from same IP address, or paying for game with same CC, or beeing same people IRL, right?
But still Mr Sreegs preffer BAN, and say they are same team.
Or maybe, Mr Sreegs when he was playing this game, was very bad at this game, got humiliated by Outbreak./Hydra guys, maybe they killed him one time to much and now hes taking revenge.

No offence, just trying to figure out why do so and not otherwise.
SwindonBadger
0utbreak
#55 - 2012-05-26 12:47:04 UTC
ly obtuse as the petition. I'll mea culpa that we should have responded but to be honest it wouldn't have changed anything because you got booted for doing what you did, not doing what you sent in emails and petitions. You can continue to flood every forum you can find with your noise generation as if the emails are really what matters but in case you're not getting it from everyone else I'll spell it out for you.

You were booted for the reasons outlined in our two posts on the subject. What you sent in the emails and the petition was virtually identical in content regardless of if one had more words and I know it's convenient to pretend that's a major issue, but the fact is that it isn't and no response to the question that was posed would have changed the outcome. Posting over and over again about it won't change that and our annoyance with said childish behavior has reached its limit."

You should have responded, thats the whole point, with any amount of discusion right at the start we would have all been ok with following any responce given, you never gave us that chance, (as many more people then us where confused by your what is A, B team and vague new rules).

You did not respond, but you did respond for others, eg PL (even admited on live eve tv last year by Ravi as being 2 teams) who are still competing, RvB who again you changed your own rules for/ and have been in contact with.

One simple bit of coumnication would have resolved this, you know this, but you chose to be vendictve, you also know any kind of petion will be too late. People can see this quite easily.

I would have been fine with anything you asked us to do, even not compete, before training started but the way in which you have done things is something I do no tollerate from anyone.

I am quite happy to be banned for standing up to people like yourself, Its very clear you have a very high self rating but you made seriouse errors here.

Most other organisations would have worked closly with the top two teams to ensure a good tourney this year, you did the complete oppisite to get what you personally want.

The one thing that tickles me is the support we have gotten from people who normaly shout at us in the hope we go away.

so thank you sreegs its obviouse to me CCP has chosen a really "great bloke" really great., and Im sure if you keep up this great work you wont make them look bad.

I always stand up for the small entites that you like to squash so maybe for you this might look like just about 0B/ hydra tears but Im hoping if we work hard enough you will think harder in the future for next years tourney just incase someone else is given the same venictive treatment.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#56 - 2012-05-26 12:48:07 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You can't read stickies so I'll go ahead and re-explain that working together isn't against the rules. That isn't what happened.
No, actually I can read stickies. In fact I have read all the stickies in this forum. Reading English is a trick I picked up at age 5. But thanks for your mildly insulting comment anyway.

So if it's not the fact that they were working together, then the reason they were banned is simply because the were all in one corp in one wormhole? That's it?

CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#57 - 2012-05-26 12:49:19 UTC
Qlfon wrote:
Mr Sreegs wants to say, that Outbreak./Hydra guys were only asking about training together, and they got permission only for that, but they went far and merged into ONE corp, right?
But Mr Sreegs, do preffer BAN them without even warning, or answering any of their emails, he don't want to listen explanations that they were merged into one corp due to logistics effort.
Mr Sreegs is security guy in CCP, there is no better person in whole CCP Team to check if they were sharing accounts or were logging in from same IP address, or paying for game with same CC, or beeing same people IRL, right?
But still Mr Sreegs preffer BAN, and say they are same team.
Or maybe, Mr Sreegs when he was playing this game, was very bad at this game, got humiliated by Outbreak./Hydra guys, maybe they killed him one time to much and now hes taking revenge.

No offence, just trying to figure out why do so and not otherwise.


I can recommend the two stickied threads at the top of the forum if you are truly looking for an explanation.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#58 - 2012-05-26 12:50:09 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You can't read stickies so I'll go ahead and re-explain that working together isn't against the rules. That isn't what happened.
No, actually I can read stickies. In fact I have read all the stickies in this forum. Reading English is a trick I picked up at age 5. But thanks for your mildly insulting comment anyway.

So if it's not the fact that they were working together, then the reason they were banned is simply because the were all in one corp in one wormhole? That's it?



I'm pretty sure you didn't read them so go ahead and do so again.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

Kadesh Priestess
Goryn Clade
#59 - 2012-05-26 12:55:38 UTC
Stop posting, Sreegs. You already look a way more bitter than I am, and I'm really bitter about it.
Intigo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-05-26 12:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Intigo
Thank you for making the rules so clear and taking the time to respond to teams emailing for clarification, Sreegs.

It seems CVA was confused too: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113071&find=unread

It is fortunate that you banned both teams before they went ahead and did that because I am sure they would have been in trouble too, right?

You made the rules intentionally vague and ignored all attempts at communication so you could pull this stunt. The fact that CVA (and others) were confused about the rules too just goes to show how vague and useless said rules were.

It's sad to see things come to this.

hydra provail