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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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HYDRA / PL / OUTBREAK

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Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-05-25 20:09:36 UTC
Zarathushtra wrote:
Also I really dont understand how would you ever come to think of us as a B-Team.


If the highest you plan to compete for is second place, your a B-team by any metric.
ScoRpS
Moist Wanted.
OnlyFleets.
#82 - 2012-05-25 20:17:58 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Zarathushtra wrote:
Also I really dont understand how would you ever come to think of us as a B-Team.


If the highest you plan to compete for is second place, your a B-team by any metric.


Did you get that from your crystal ball? I dont remember copying you in on anything we intended to do.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#83 - 2012-05-25 20:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Killer Gandry
CCP.
Butthurt since AT9. Revenge since ATX.
Fail since ....
Kalvunia IV
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-05-25 21:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalvunia IV
Just wanted to voice my support for Hydra/OB.

I feel more disappointed with how CCP is handling this situation then I was with how Hydra/OB handled last years finals. If CCP wants to bring the highest quality PVP to AT10 it should be obvious to them that dialog with Hydra/OB would be important, and yes I am suggesting that CCP should have been on the front foot and contacted Hydra/OB even before the attempts from Hydra/OB were made to CCP.

The Alliance Tournament generates a lot of PR for CCP, and in a positive way. And there for the AT should be the best against the best. Every year I'm looking forward to seeing what setups Hydra brings out, will Darkside. beat them? Will PL make a comeback this year? Who will be the underdog that gets in to the semi's against all odds? I can't help but feel that I might be missing out on some part of that this year if neither Hydra nor OB is in the AT.

The little contact I've had with Garmon and other people from Hydra they seam like nice helpfull people. They obviously take the AT very seriously, even put EIE on hold for it.

So please CCP at least allow them to enter as one team, if not for their sake do it for the viewers.
Luis Graca
#85 - 2012-05-25 21:56:46 UTC
This just passed my mind (or whats left of it) If PL and hydra create a torny with 16 invited teams and broadcasted it, what torny would have more people seeing it?
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#86 - 2012-05-26 02:41:58 UTC
CCP this is some major ******* bullshit. A GM says it's ok, Hydra/Outbreak go ahead and do it, and then you ban them? That's ******. If the GM shouldn't have told them that, then it sounds like an issue with your crappy internal communication. Y'know, the stuff you said you were gonna fix. You people suck. What makes it even more bullshit is that after the mistake has been made you have explicitly decided not to readdress the situation. Way to compound an error. And on top of all that you let PL slide for fielding two teams. Nice "impartial judgement" there. And now you are just gonna stand the line and keep on screaming "no no no" even though you guys clearly ****** up. Like you needed any more bad press. Fucktards.
Kaleesa
Pathogen Inc.
#87 - 2012-05-26 03:06:50 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP this is some major ******* bullshit. A GM says it's ok, Hydra/Outbreak go ahead and do it, and then you ban them? That's ******. If the GM shouldn't have told them that, then it sounds like an issue with your crappy internal communication. Y'know, the stuff you said you were gonna fix. You people suck. What makes it even more bullshit is that after the mistake has been made you have explicitly decided not to readdress the situation. Way to compound an error. And on top of all that you let PL slide for fielding two teams. Nice "impartial judgement" there. And now you are just gonna stand the line and keep on screaming "no no no" even though you guys clearly ****** up. Like you needed any more bad press. Fucktards.



Dude... Imagine you are Hydra or Outbreak, you hear about the rule regarding B and C teams, which is obviously meant to stop what happened at last years final. What would your first thought be? I'll tell you what mine would be, it would be "gee I better make a real effort to avoid any contact with Outbreak during tournament training, I don't want things to be misinterpreted". Without any other information that little tidbit would have been enough to stop this happening.... Just a poor judgement call by Hydra/OB, like it or not they brought this on themselves. I for one don't like it because i'd like to fight Hydra in the tourney (even if we lost), but blaming CCP and ranting at them for trying to make this years tournament fair and entertaining... Shame on you.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-05-26 03:06:58 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP this is some major ******* bullshit. A GM says it's ok, Hydra/Outbreak go ahead and do it, and then you ban them? That's ******. If the GM shouldn't have told them that, then it sounds like an issue with your crappy internal communication. Y'know, the stuff you said you were gonna fix. You people suck. What makes it even more bullshit is that after the mistake has been made you have explicitly decided not to readdress the situation. Way to compound an error. And on top of all that you let PL slide for fielding two teams. Nice "impartial judgement" there. And now you are just gonna stand the line and keep on screaming "no no no" even though you guys clearly ****** up. Like you needed any more bad press. Fucktards.


You do realize what they told the GM was not the whole truth right?
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#89 - 2012-05-26 03:09:56 UTC
Haha.

Cheaters get caught, tears ensue.

Katrina Oniseki
Karbox Delacroix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-05-26 03:10:55 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP this is some major ******* bullshit. A GM says it's ok, Hydra/Outbreak go ahead and do it, and then you ban them? That's ******. If the GM shouldn't have told them that, then it sounds like an issue with your crappy internal communication. Y'know, the stuff you said you were gonna fix. You people suck. What makes it even more bullshit is that after the mistake has been made you have explicitly decided not to readdress the situation. Way to compound an error. And on top of all that you let PL slide for fielding two teams. Nice "impartial judgement" there. And now you are just gonna stand the line and keep on screaming "no no no" even though you guys clearly ****** up. Like you needed any more bad press. Fucktards.


You do realize what they told the GM was not the whole truth right?


You do realize that you have no evidence that they were planning to throw any fights.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-05-26 03:20:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/05/alliance-tournament-x-hydra-rule.html

The last half of the article has been rewritten; less beholden to hyperbole and quick summations of the relationships involved, more questions on CCP rulings.

Last year was my first alliance tournament. Not as a competitor. Obviously. As a spectator. I was super excited about watching it. And barring the final match (more on that in a smidgen), the tournament exceeded all of my expectations. Mainly because of CCP. Damn, they put on a great show. I've never watched video game tournaments before, and did not quite realize how sporting event-like they could be. It was like watching a compressed version of the Final Four tournament (a big American college basketball tournament, which I don't actually watch, because basketball is hell of boring, but if you live in North America you can't help but know something about it.)

Alliance Tournament IX was quite exciting. I especially enjoyed all the in-match commentating by actual players (flown out to Iceland for the job on CCP's dime, no less.) The inter-match banter and analysis was even more fantastic. Damn, if CCP Soundwave isn't the funniest person living in the middle of the North Atlantic. CCP put on an excellent show that flaunted their game most spectacularly.

Some of the shine to all this CCP and competitive excellence was taken off the event with the shenanigans of the final match. One alliance, Hydra Reloaded, decides to cozy-up with another alliance, Outbreak, train, strategize, share tactics together, two teams become one. They ensured they were in separate draws come the final day of the tournament. Effectively, one team makes it to the final match.

So come the tournament final, Outbreak throws the match for Hydra Reloaded. It was a complete farce. Their apology afterwards? They were sorry they couldn't have faked their fight more convincingly. Like, what the hell? Fake is fake, convincing or not. That **** would have got out no matter, no way to keep that secret. People in EVE can't keep their mouths shut if they think they've pulled one over.

So the rule for the upcoming Alliance Tournament X, alliances will not be allowed to field multiple teams, consider it the Hydra Reloaded rule. They won last year's tournament, so they get the infamy of the new rule named after them.

We wouldn't be particularly enthused if the University of Indiana were fielding two teams in the Final Four tournament. Even worse if the University of Indiana created the University of Central Indiana, which doesn't normally have any students except during March when suddenly basketball players, and those basketball players are students at the University of Indiana the rest of the year.

So, this year, so far, three alliances have been banned from Alliance Tournament X. Hydra Reloaded and Outbreak. Because they figured they could do as they did last year, two teams from, effectively, one alliance. As well, Your Votes Don't Count has been banned, apparently Pandemic Legion's version of Outbreak.

The rules do state that only the B and C teams of an alliance will be disqualified, which should mean that only Outbreak is out of the tournament. So, why Hydra Reloaded as well? They got it right with Your Votes Don't Count, they being the alternative team of Pandemic Legion. Team B out, Team A remains. So, again, why is Hydra gone? In that case both Teams A and B were disqualified.

The new rule against pre-tournament collusion, it's good in essence, if not so much in wording or in the quality of the actions taken so far by CCP.

So kudos to CCP Sreegs for trying to make the starting line of Alliance Tournament X fairer, even if he's somewhat failing at the moment to come down hard on folks trying to game the pre-tournament entry process. (Why is Sreegs such a **** in all his forum responses? Still too much Goon in him? I find his sarcasm hilarious, but it doesn't help the situation. Most people don't appreciate good sarcasm.)

One alliance, one team. Seems fair enough to me.
Kaleesa
Pathogen Inc.
#92 - 2012-05-26 03:20:35 UTC
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP this is some major ******* bullshit. A GM says it's ok, Hydra/Outbreak go ahead and do it, and then you ban them? That's ******. If the GM shouldn't have told them that, then it sounds like an issue with your crappy internal communication. Y'know, the stuff you said you were gonna fix. You people suck. What makes it even more bullshit is that after the mistake has been made you have explicitly decided not to readdress the situation. Way to compound an error. And on top of all that you let PL slide for fielding two teams. Nice "impartial judgement" there. And now you are just gonna stand the line and keep on screaming "no no no" even though you guys clearly ****** up. Like you needed any more bad press. Fucktards.


You do realize what they told the GM was not the whole truth right?


You do realize that you have no evidence that they were planning to throw any fights.


You do realize that the rule didn't say anything about throwing fights.
Karbox Delacroix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-05-26 03:47:10 UTC
Kaleesa wrote:
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
CCP this is some major ******* bullshit. A GM says it's ok, Hydra/Outbreak go ahead and do it, and then you ban them? That's ******. If the GM shouldn't have told them that, then it sounds like an issue with your crappy internal communication. Y'know, the stuff you said you were gonna fix. You people suck. What makes it even more bullshit is that after the mistake has been made you have explicitly decided not to readdress the situation. Way to compound an error. And on top of all that you let PL slide for fielding two teams. Nice "impartial judgement" there. And now you are just gonna stand the line and keep on screaming "no no no" even though you guys clearly ****** up. Like you needed any more bad press. Fucktards.


You do realize what they told the GM was not the whole truth right?


You do realize that you have no evidence that they were planning to throw any fights.


You do realize that the rule didn't say anything about throwing fights.



The rules do not prohibit sparring. The rules cannot prohibit the sharing of information because CCP cannot monitor who says what on mumble or jabber or TS. The anger about ATIX was because Outbreak threw the match.

All CCP can really do is punish people for, badly, throwing a fight. Everything else is imagined allegations because the very nature of the meta means that you do not know. What if Goonswarm ends up fighting a Dekco member alliance.? What if tech moons get distributed differently after the next war? You simply don't know and crying about WH ops on the Test server is silly, silly, silly.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#94 - 2012-05-26 05:09:28 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
You do realize what they told the GM was not the whole truth right?
How do you figure? They asked if they could spar and share ship fits. They were told it was okay as long as they "are not working for the same team, so to speak". So teams can share, communicate, and test together.

How does forming up into one corp on the test server change that? Does the sharing, communicating, and testing suddenly become more special? If I join a corp on the test server do I suddenly become their soulmates? Or is it possible to be in a corp with other players and still be willing to make their ships explode when the contest is on the line?

Also Hydra/Outbreak claim they sent multiple email/petitions to the Alliance Team asking for clarification which supposedly went ignored for weeks. And yet as soon as they form up on SiSi there is the Alliance Team ready to act. Doesn't that seem a little weird to you?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2012-05-26 05:15:06 UTC
Hydra Reloaded and Outbreak should boycott Alliance Tournament X ... oh, wait ...
Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#96 - 2012-05-26 06:34:53 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:


Also Hydra/Outbreak claim they sent multiple email/petitions to the Alliance Team asking for clarification which supposedly went ignored for weeks. And yet as soon as they form up on SiSi there is the Alliance Team ready to act. Doesn't that seem a little weird to you?


Indeed.
Lucas Quaan
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#97 - 2012-05-26 07:46:17 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Also Hydra/Outbreak claim they sent multiple email/petitions to the Alliance Team asking for clarification which supposedly went ignored for weeks. And yet as soon as they form up on SiSi there is the Alliance Team ready to act.

Then maybe they should have started testing separately until they got an answer instead of doing something all signs pointed to would actually be against the rules.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#98 - 2012-05-26 08:38:34 UTC
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Then maybe they should have started testing separately until they got an answer instead of doing something all signs pointed to would actually be against the rules.
Except they already had a "senior" GM's statement that sharing info and sparring was totally legit.

In retrospect you are absolutely correct. Congrats on your 20/20 hindsight btw. Now that everyone knows that a GM's statement means absolutely nothing, nobody in their right mind would have made the choice to start testing as a combined group. Funny thing is, that for the past 9 years or so we have been made to believe (by CCP amusingly enough) that a GM's statement can be taken as fact. Especially a senior GM's since they really know their ****.

So yeah, we can totally say "you shoulda known". But given the info they had, it seems reasonable enough for them to go ahead with testing. Especially when the Alliance Team was apparently not going to make an effort to reply to emails/petitions.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#99 - 2012-05-26 08:44:56 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:

How does forming up into one corp on the test server change that?


Because it makes them one team dumbass, christ.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Intigo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2012-05-26 08:46:00 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Then maybe they should have started testing separately until they got an answer instead of doing something all signs pointed to would actually be against the rules.
Except they already had a "senior" GM's statement that sharing info and sparring was totally legit.

In retrospect you are absolutely correct. Congrats on your 20/20 hindsight btw. Now that everyone knows that a GM's statement means absolutely nothing, nobody in their right mind would have made the choice to start testing as a combined group. Funny thing is, that for the past 9 years or so we have been made to believe (by CCP amusingly enough) that a GM's statement can be taken as fact. Especially a senior GM's since they really know their ****.

So yeah, we can totally say "you shoulda known". But given the info they had, it seems reasonable enough for them to go ahead with testing. Especially when the Alliance Team was apparently not going to make an effort to reply to emails/petitions.


HYDRA is clearly at fault for thinking Senior GMs could be trusted.

And I applaud CCP for their excellent communication with us on this matter. It's great to see that the Alliance Tournament team is always ready to respond to questions posed by competitors.

hydra provail