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Ally wardec system allready showing its flaws ?
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CEO 01
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2012-05-25 16:03:34 UTC
I agree that it is stupid, there should probably be a cap on how many allies can join. All this does is promote the 0.0 blob in high sec. Last thing EVE needs is 500 man war dec blobs running around.

And as someone else said, I also agree with the "if you war dec someone, be preparred to fight" etc. etc. But you shouldn't turn a war from 30 v 30 to 300 v 30. Its just a free way for those who get war dec'd to essentially end the war. There are enough corps out there who will ally for free at the prospect of potential free high sec targets.
Cursed Soldier Cursed
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#42 - 2012-05-25 16:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Cursed Soldier Cursed
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
We told them this would happen (Alekseyev Karrde made a big write-up on it in another forum section that summarized these concerns), and they didn't listen.

My take on it is that it was simply another concession to carebears, since these changes act as a painfully-obvious nerf to high-sec war aggression.


Is there a problem with this? now instead of being faced by a merc corp with neutral RR and not having anyway for other corps to help us, there is now a way for us to have actual allies that can help defend us. This ally system is just taking the RR that the mercs got and making it so that we can have someone help us without having to hop into corp.

Edit: under the old dec system, the other corp would have to create a seperate war dec and not be able to join the active dec like in the new dec system. This is what I meant by helping out. Example I was high sec war dec'ed, my buddy and his corp watned to help, but didnt want to maintain a separate war dec so they didnt help. No neut RR either since no one wanted to risk being overwhelmed without their entire corp being able to help.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-05-25 16:15:43 UTC
So are you saying this is a good thing because now PVP can flourish amongst those who want it, and that people who dont want it can now call in help from those who do but without paying the billions of isk pricetag of station camping mercs?

I agree!

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-05-25 16:15:55 UTC
Pretty much everyone who read the devblog and knows how the game works told them this would happen, but they went ahead and released it anyway.
Naburi NasNaburi
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-05-25 16:20:24 UTC
We are 10 active people and had a blast in the past deccing other corps about our size or bigger
Now... we really have to think about the costs.. having 3 active wars will easily get you to 450 mil a week.. IF you dont have an alliance in those decs.. (our RP wardec on ccp is billed with 366 mil per week)

Assisting would make us mercs of some sort.. and we always stayed wayyyy out of mercland. Its not our business.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-05-25 20:53:38 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Sandbox

How is it "sandbox?" I fail to see how it can be "sandbox," unless your definition of sandbox is having all the adults on the playground beat the living **** out of the kid who knocked down another kid's sandcastle.
.

yup, That's pretty much what a real sandbox should be like

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-05-25 20:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Naburi NasNaburi wrote:
We are 10 active people and had a blast in the past deccing other corps about our size or bigger
Now... we really have to think about the costs.. having 3 active wars will easily get you to 450 mil a week.. IF you dont have an alliance in those decs.. (our RP wardec on ccp is billed with 366 mil per week)

Assisting would make us mercs of some sort.. and we always stayed wayyyy out of mercland. Its not our business.


If your goal was to have quick cheap wars, then you better start mercin, In fact it's better than before, you won't have to pay for wars, you'll get paid for them!

CEO 01 wrote:
I agree that it is stupid, there should probably be a cap on how many allies can join. All this does is promote the 0.0 blob in high sec. Last thing EVE needs is 500 man war dec blobs running around.

And as someone else said, I also agree with the "if you war dec someone, be preparred to fight" etc. etc. But you shouldn't turn a war from 30 v 30 to 300 v 30. Its just a free way for those who get war dec'd to essentially end the war. There are enough corps out there who will ally for free at the prospect of potential free high sec targets.


I think that both sides should be allowed to bring people in. Starting with the defenders getting to pick one ally. Then the attackers can bring a merc in, and then the defender can bring a merc in, and so on, it stops when one team chooses to not use the merc option. So you limit how many defenders there can be and give the merc a chance to score more contracts with the aggressive corps.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-05-25 21:22:56 UTC
Fuji 9000 wrote:
Plentath wrote:
It works fine.
If you want a powerful ally that will actually hunt and destroy the target effectively, pay for it like you would before.

you're missing the point, why hire a 'powerful ally' and pay them what they are worth, when you can hire unlimited scrubs for free?
most corps/alliances will go the free option


Supply and Demand ... it's a b*** ...


Love hearing the so called "elite PvP'ers" complaining about "Too Much PvP" now .... LOLOLOLOLOL
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-05-25 21:58:44 UTC
I could see some people disliking it.

i love it.

im a solo player, i ally with whoever and get **** loads of targets.

if i dec people no one will ally with them because im only one person.

sweet.
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-05-25 22:14:12 UTC

highsec griefers crying that they can't get easy kills

War decs don't need to be used in nullsec at all so that point is pretty mute

lowsec the penalties for killing is so low that again, you don't need wardecs.


its not conceding to care bears its "hard core" pvpers can't get easy ass kills with no effort. adapt or die.
Plentath
Sparkle Motion.
#51 - 2012-05-25 22:35:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Plentath
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Plentath wrote:
It works fine.

If you want random scrubs helping you (and everyone else) at the same time, accept the free offers.

If you want a powerful ally that will actually hunt and destroy the target effectively, pay for it like you would before.

Except the people who are putting out 0.00isk assistance offers are the exact same people who are listed in the merc contracts channel. So no, not really.

And is that my fault?

If they chose to price themselves out of a business, let them.

Fuji 9000 wrote:
you're missing the point, why hire a 'powerful ally' and pay them what they are worth, when you can hire unlimited scrubs for free?

Because they're powerful and worth what you pay? Aren't you making my point for me?

No one is going to hire five 2-man corps for free and see themselves as well protected as hiring Noir.

"hired merc for 0 ISK to save my faction tower and they just stayed in Jita and did nothing" will be the new complaint on C&P
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#52 - 2012-05-25 23:01:13 UTC
Isokuro wrote:
for a quick example: Against All Authorities wardecced Pandemic Legion.
Now because of the higher wardec costs all the high sec pvp allainces and corporations are all
offering to be an ally for PL like Flies on a big fat pile of **** just so they can have these free wars.

I hear your words, but all they're saying is AAA just got a shitload of freebie wardecs.

The problem is?

Mercs have to deal with supply and demand as well. Buhu if the supply far outweighs the demand.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#53 - 2012-05-25 23:17:15 UTC
Plentath wrote:
"hired merc for 0 ISK to save my faction tower and they just stayed in Jita and did nothing" will be the new complaint on C&P

That's because they have to camp Jita to kill the enemy freighters !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-05-25 23:18:47 UTC
I wouldn't be opposed to say letting the attacker call in 1 ally for every 2 defender allies.

But if you are really complaining that you are getting too many "scrubs" on the defender side, then guess what you are the scrub. HTFU mercbear.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#55 - 2012-05-26 00:43:44 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:

I think that both sides should be allowed to bring people in. Starting with the defenders getting to pick one ally. Then the attackers can bring a merc in, and then the defender can bring a merc in, and so on, it stops when one team chooses to not use the merc option. So you limit how many defenders there can be and give the merc a chance to score more contracts with the aggressive corps.


Too easy for the attackers to game the system to their advantage. The attacker chose to open the can of worms. In the case of wardecs, the attackers have far more to gain from gaming the system then the defenders do.

If the attacker wants to bring in additional help, they can just have those players join their corp - or have another corp/alliance wardec the target.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#56 - 2012-05-26 00:47:36 UTC
see sig too

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#57 - 2012-05-26 00:49:45 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Sandbox

it'll work itself out

If the system wasn't open to this sort of abuse it would be too closed to promote sandbox gameplay. If the playerbase in eve want to ruin the ally system for a while, it'll happen.

CCP already knew this would be a great way to let people get free wars, and get their allies into war with them for free.

If anything if you're tagging your self as someone who needs defenders it should only be if you're looking to pay someone. There should be an easy way to bring in free allies without littering the merc marketplace with people who don't want someone to give them an offer.


holy crap are you a drow?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#58 - 2012-05-26 00:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Ten Bulls wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
We told them this would happen ... and they didn't listen.


CCP have made concerted efforts so they look like they listen to the players, they even made the CSM with 14 players, 2 of which represent and care about the majority of players.

They post on these forums regularly telling us how it will be, and criticise or ignore objectors, and generally keeping us informed of who the boss is.

How is that now players can see through their mask...


funny how I see nothing but "watch what they do not listen to what they say"

Fuji 9000 wrote:
Plentath wrote:
It works fine.
If you want a powerful ally that will actually hunt and destroy the target effectively, pay for it like you would before.

you're missing the point, why hire a 'powerful ally' and pay them what they are worth, when you can hire unlimited scrubs for free?
most corps/alliances will go the free option


Isnt that how Goon started? unlimited scrubs

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#59 - 2012-05-26 01:05:42 UTC
Here's another idea: if the defending corporation brings in an ally, then the war fee itself is refunded. The "product" one paid for has turned out to be something else entirely, right? In the first-world societies that the honorable types love equating EVE to, this results in refunds.

I mean, how would you feel if you paid for some strippers, and didn't quite get exactly what you bargained for?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Jonathan Malcom
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-05-26 01:33:37 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Jonathan Malcom wrote:
DestinyCorrupted wrote:

Before the changes, there was an actual mercenary market where people could hire mercenaries by reputation, and mercenaries actually got paid for their work. What we have now is a bunch of privateer-style groups doing the same for free. So point 1 is that there is no more mercenary work, because mercenaries get paid.


So, you're trying to charge for a service that others are willing to provide for free. That kind of makes you an idiot.

They didn't provide it for free when there was a war fee attached. In most cases, that fee was so significant (due to their existing amount of outgoing wars), that clients would balk at hiring them, even if they didn't charge for anything but the war fee. For example, The Orphanage does "free" work, as long as the client covers the war fee. How many small groups would be willing to shell out upper-hundreds of millions, sometimes even billions, for a week of war? Most balk at paying even 200-300 million, fee included, to a small mercenary group that will actually devote a significant amount of time to going after the targets. Now, they can get a few thousand people without having to pay a single cent, and let numbers do all the work.On top of that, Inferno made it significantly more expensive to declare war.

2/10 for getting me to reply I guess.


Your complaint seems to be that the barrier to entry in the field of Empire wardec circle-jerking has been lowered to essentially zero and the influx of fresh, ravenous combatants who have no concern for remuneration is depriving you (the "mercenary" community) of your deserved fee.

Which is exactly what I said the first time.

I'm not trolling you. You really are an idiot.