Science & Industry

already have one... but i'll see what i can do

Try that with T2 ships you'll be unhappy, say a popular line of T2 ships like umm interceptors where the T2BPO crushes inventors ROI.

So you think it's fair that players are ruled out of entire inventions due to the fact that CCP has created and gifted out T2BPO's which are far to efficent at creating those line of T2 items?

If T2BPO is so great please seed a bunch more, oh wait CCP understands the error of T2BPO and no longer seeds them. If only they got off their ass and nerfed/removed the ones still in game to have lower stats than invented BPC's.

I believe it's your entire point : as you are too lazy or unimaginative to be able to afford one, or you want another seeding or you prefer they not exist.

I said unimaginative because you are still after interceptors which are not profitable to invent at this moment, which were profitable in the past, which are NOT popular hence the UNPROFITABILITY to invent them

T2 Bpos are still seeded, in the sell order forum. Watch there.

Cool can I purchase it using research points? Oh wait no I can't then I'm not intrested. Oh wait can I get one from a dropped rat, eh no? OK, How about a dev just give me one you know just because?

Naw if I'm not going to be able to get these items through corrupt means or just plain gifted then I'm not really happy.

I think you have an odd definition of "popular". Interceptors stopped being really popular a good while back. And when they used to be really popular, inventing them was quite profitable.
So, you were saying, again, what exactly ?


It's about as fair as many other things in EVE which are intentionally unfair to some degree.
T2 BPOs are intentionally slightly unfair, and what makes them more fair rather than unfair is the fact people can trade the BPOs freely between themselves.
If anything, the current situation is far, far fairer than back in the day the lottery was still active.


Yes, you can. Indirectly.
Buy datacores with RP, sell datacores, use ISK to buy BPO.
Problem solved !
If you want more of a lottery feel, be my guest and use that ISK to enter player-organized lotteries to multiply it to the levels you'd need to purchase a T2 BPO. Or maybe even enter a player-organized lottery that offers T2 BPOs as prizes !

I even figured with back-of-envelope guesstimations that it is quite probable that the total value of RPs that were used up post-lottery on datacores already exceeds the sum of RP that were spent acquiring T2 BPOs back in the days of the lottery (and will keep going up), so in a twisted sense, you're better off doing research today than you were back in the day when the lottery was still active, and it's only getting better.


You keep saying that some people gamed the lottery with info from devs. Where is the hard proof of that ? I'd wager CCP Internal Affairs would love some leads regarding that. Oh, wait, you have none, it's just wild speculations and baseless conjectures.
And even if some people did get some degree of assistance, unless you want to claim some dev actually manually manipulated the draw of the lottery, it doesn't really matter even if some of them did get some hints as to what would be easier. It's not like a regular player couldn't have figured the same thing, just with no certitude.
You also keep saying that some people got blueprints from rat drops. Guess what, those were Miner II BPOs, and there's only a handful of them, it happened BEFORE the lottery was introduced (it's actually THE reason the lottery was introduced, because people complained it was "too unfair" towards active event participating combat pilots), and they represent something like roughly 20 out of over 10000 blueprints after the end of the lottery (i.e. less than 0.2% of the grand total, so that leaves 99.8% initially earned via lottery).
At least you don't keep droning about BPOs allegedly handed directly over to players (see: t20) because you probably realized those were all removed (and they kind of sucked to begin with, and there were very few too).
THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PEOPLE OBTAINED THEIR T2 BPOs INITIALLY FAIR AND SQUARE - AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF CURRENT OWNERS PURCHASED THEM WITH ISK FROM THE PEOPLE THAT WON THEM IN THE LOTTERY or other former owners who purchased them with ISK (as opposed to having won them in the lottery themselves).

Even in the extremely unlikely case that you would be right about any of the distribution unfairness topics (and I can only repeat that I am of the opinion that you are almost totally wrong), how exactly would removing T2 BPOs TODAY solve any of the issues regarding how they were first introduced ?
The obvious answer is that it wouldn't solve nor fix anything except give some people with entitlement issues a very brief sense of accomplishment which will soon fade as they find other issues they feel self-conscious about, while the core veteran player base just shakes their head in disbelief at a major CCP blunder in caving in to unreasonable demands.
Again, there's no way to "safely" remove T2 BPOs from the game without causing a whole lot more trouble than simply letting them in.
You used to agree that buffing invention massively would be a better alternative - what happened to that position you eventually agreed on - did you completely forget about it ?

AkitaT I considered the invention buff ie allowing invented T2BPC's to inherit their t1bpo stats but that idea is flawed as it would generate a problem akin to T2BPO but on an even larger scale. Allowing inventions to inherent stats would close margins and prevent newbie inventors from competing with inventors who have a highly researched t1bpo.

Buffing invention run levels and success chance is an option yes also reducing material needs to insure that it falls equal to T2BPO or slightly less is an option too.

The easiest and fairest method that I feel CCP should implement would be to insure that a T2BPO falls shortly behind a T2BPC on material efficiency taking into account invention chance. This would allow T2BPO's to retain value and continue to be an attractive item in fields that have demand while still allowing inventors to produce items. The T2BPO would be attractive in the fact that it is afk isk slowly churning out items 23/7 but in a sligtly less efficient manner while t2bpc's require a click fest of operations.

Another option would be to allow invention not to create T2 items alone but have a chance at creating a new set of faction called 'inventions' that have higher stats than T2 items.

I like bacon

I'm still confused as to why everything has to be completely fair, all the time, and how that would somehow make EVE more 'real'.

I missed something, what has changed exactly about invention mechanics with the last patch ? more runs ? cheaper datacores ? More decryptor drops ? I don't get it, please someone tell me.