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CCP: What are you going to do about the storyline?

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Llyandrian
Livestock Science Exchange
#61 - 2012-05-24 17:26:28 UTC

I'm reminded of Plato's Cave with CCP Abraxas as the Puppet Master and CCP Drop Bear as the educator.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-05-24 18:09:05 UTC
Llyandrian wrote:
I'm reminded of Plato's Cave with CCP Abraxas as the Puppet Master and CCP Drop Bear as the educator.


Wow. That's pretty deep.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#63 - 2012-05-24 19:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Seismic Stan
I think it is a misconception that lore-driven game events and player-driven ones are mutually exclusive.

Throughout the playerbase there are degrees of appreciation for immersion and the backstory. If there was no backstory there would be no character or variety to many aspects of the game. Players would simply be in Ship Type A fitted with Weapon Type B and Defence Type C. Even those who refuse to acknowledge EVE's lore are still pretending to fly around in spaceships. Whether they like it or not, that's a kind of roleplaying.

Appreciating the storylines woven into EVE doesn't have to be an active pursuit that influences your gameplay decisions, it can simply be something that gives the game experience more depth and character in the same way the canon of Star Wars does for a multitude of games.

I would imagine the vast majority of EVE players have at least some appreciation for science fiction like Star Wars, Star Trek, Dune, Battlestar Galactica and so on. EVE's backstory can evoke the same sentiments in its players - waiting to hear of new developments in the lore which directly influence gameplay could have as much impact on players as a new season of Firefly would on its fans.

For players to ignore or dismiss the lore or even worse for CCP to discard it entirely would be tragedy and a missed opportunity in the frontier of emergent online gaming.

EVE Online: The Text Adventure --- GameSkinny Correspondent --- Freebooted Blogger
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2012-05-24 19:31:55 UTC
The problem with the storyline from an in-game perspective is that there are no consequences (until the latest FW buff) for anything you do to NPCs other then they pop out isk and loot. You can live in Sansha's backyard and kill his children nonstop, but not only will he not care, he will let you dock and use his stations as much as you like. Factional systems are won and lost, but this effects noone in any meaningful way. Sansha can literally abduct millions of people, but CONCORD won't do anything except pay LP for capsuleers to kill them, they don't move an inch unlessl a player shoots another player and then they shoot hydrogen bombs at the offender. What is the point of even trying to impose order on such an irrational in-character world?

Even World of Warcraft can provide a sort of 'cultural distinction' between Alliance and Horde players, but for some reason this never happens in EVE.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-05-24 22:02:14 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Even World of Warcraft can provide a sort of 'cultural distinction' between Alliance and Horde players, but for some reason this never happens in EVE.


This is why I liked the concept of Incarna. I just wish they'd waited, rolling it out when it had a meaningful impact on the game.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-05-24 22:18:27 UTC
Glad one of these threads showed up

When are you fleshing out the Enheduanni storyline CCP?
Verone
Veto Corp
#67 - 2012-05-24 23:26:15 UTC
Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote:
Glad one of these threads showed up

When are you fleshing out the Enheduanni storyline CCP?


Read Templar One.

Verone CEO & Executor Veto Corp WWW.VETO-CORP.COM
Math'ra Hiede
Trinity's Vanguard
#68 - 2012-05-24 23:40:35 UTC
I have been consistently dissapointed with the direction the EVE lore has been taken ever since the release of The Empyrean Age and the beginnings of the Factional-Warfare mumbo-jumbo.

As has been previously stated, the greatest asset to EVE appeal for alot of people, the gritty dark realistic space story has just been worn down over the last two years or so to the story equivalent of fluffy bunnies and magic.

We have gone from complex leaders of factions, with hugely interesting character stories and complexities to stereotypes with no interest what so ever.

We have seen the greatest potential for the stories development , Factional Warfare, turn into "IMMA SHOOT YA, KAY!?" instead of something of great depth and meaning, why couldn't the State have felt pushed into a corner by a drive by the Gallente government into reducing the State's ability to trade forcing it to act, why couldn't the Amarr have had a slave rebellion that has been fueled by the Republic over the last decade, seeded stories to the effect and watched when the Republics slow and careful build up of forces on the border of the Federation is given moral rights to jump on the Empire, similar to what actually happened but just maybe, MAYBE, we could have had something there to make it believable.

And then there is the Sansha, the sansha used to be the scariest most impressively fearful lot of the Pirate factions simply because of Kuvakei's dream being something that really could have inspired millions to join him, despite his nefarious ideals and what he actually did, and instead of his revenge being simply to do what he did best and stir the masses against the Empires, reap worlds simply by giving them ample and free opportunities to leave, using the minions he had as meat shields so that the 'true' citizens might fulfil his dreams.
Nope.
We have evil space Zombies, no reasoning for their motives other than simple revenge and that just isn't convincing, not for someone as truly intelligent and powerful as Kuvakei appears to be, no gritty dark here, just a convenient bad-guy made boring for the purposes of a new and annoying mechanic that has no bearing on a sandbox universe, no tangible results.

And then there is the development of the Factions, the Amarr empire especially.
While it is true there is a lot of fiction and resources that paint the Amarr in the light that I originally saw them in, Imperials built on a core of faith that through their faith the rest of the misguided humans in the cluster could be saved, and while ultimately the Amarr see themselves as superior they understand and appreciate the value of willing allies, the Khanid, Ammatar and Ni-Kunni, the Emperor/Empress would be the glories and age defying leader of a monotheistic superpower, they would experienced backed by countless other wise individuals with a complete belief in the faith and its goals.

Again, nope, we have a telepathic zombie-queen ruling a squable of slavers, not even good ones just simply slavery because its what we do now.

I admit, I am a bitter veteran and after nearly 5 years in game I am sad to say that thing that really got me into this game, the chronicles, story and wonder at how in depth and just... believable to story was, I loved it so much that I delved into this game head first and lived this game because it was engaging and immersive.

I couldn't get that feeling again if I tried, the wealth of background has been pushed into the shadows, and yes, as Aldrith said the Evelopedia is an amazing resource, perhaps it would be better if some of the recently finished articles where higlighted as news articles in game.
eg "As the cluster of New Eden is torn apart by conflict, one history proffesor at the University of Caille released a paper on the timeline of Amarrian Empire" etc etc, all it takes is a little fluff around it and suddenly we have news articles, access in the minds of pilots that maybe want to learn more.

I have almost lost all hope for the progress of the Story any more, the RP community is dying a slow death, the story has ceased all development, the lever sheer frustration we all feel that our beloved EVE is loosing its grounding to what made it so famous and attractive there will be soon nothing left other than Goons.

And Goons, you guys are cool, but where would you be without noobs to troll?
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#69 - 2012-05-24 23:43:16 UTC

also:
Theres a story?

I thought WE created the story (or that was the reason they were giving that they were pulling away from the story of EVE itself and saying we make the story so they dont have to)

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Math'ra Hiede
Trinity's Vanguard
#70 - 2012-05-24 23:51:23 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

also:
Theres a story?

I thought WE created the story (or that was the reason they were giving that they were pulling away from the story of EVE itself and saying we make the story so they dont have to)


It's true, players make their own stories - the great ones of the Null-Sec alliances are some of the best tales you can find in an MMO.

That being said, the background to those stories, this is an MMORPG we can't rely singularly on player driven content, because without Dev's to help drive it players burn out, don't feel satisfied and generally get up and leave.

And thats exactly whats happening now, the story has dwindled, players creating the stories are leaving as there is nothing left to work with.
As for the null-sec guys? I have no idea, and thats the problem.
I have no idea what these guys are up to, I can try and do some digging and sure I would probably find out something but it would be nice to have the DED: Null sec reports back if possible, or at least some way from the devs to support public promotion of the great alliances in EVE and give them a chance to say "Hey guys, we are :insert-name here: and we want you because :rhetoric:"

I want to see recruitment vids, wars of ideology other than 'he has better space than me' and I don't know - more DEPTH.
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#71 - 2012-05-24 23:51:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Seismic Stan
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

also:
Theres a story?

I thought WE created the story (or that was the reason they were giving that they were pulling away from the story of EVE itself and saying we make the story so they dont have to)

Yes, there's absolutely a story! If CCP showed a little more vision, they could weave the lore and the player narrative together. I wrote about this in my foreword to Mark726's excellent EVE Lore Survival Guide.

Freebooted wrote:
EVE Online: The Greatest Story Still Being Told

Science fiction literature has brought forth many mind-bending and society-changing stories. From the classic novels of Jules Verne, H.G. Wells and Aldous Huxley to the grand visions of Arthur C. Clarke, Robert Heinlein and Philip K. ****. Entire universes were conjured in our minds by Asimov's Foundation series and Frank Herbert's Dune saga.

Cinema was quick to embrace the opportunity to portray the future of man with Fritz Lang's Metropolis and eventually went on to give us the ever growing extended universes of Lucas' Star Wars and Roddenberry's Star Trek along with many others, both original works and adaptations of previously written stories.

Rich futuristic civilisations have sprung forth from other sources too; Games Workshop's dystopian Warhammer 40,000 universe and FASA Corporation's feudal BattleTech worlds to name just two. Comics have given us everything from Dan Dare to Judge Dredd and in recent years digital entertainment has stepped into the arena with enduring original storytelling like Half Life and Mass Effect.

But the future of storytelling is changing and EVE Online stands on the frontier.

When Science-Fiction and Science-Fact Collide

Every story mentioned above, no matter how engaging and wonderful, has one thing in common: They were all written to be enjoyed by the individual reader, viewer or player (or in the case of tabletop games, a small group). EVE Online is different.

EVE Online's universe of New Eden is an epic story told on an unprecedented scale, enacted and recorded by and for its thousands of participants. The freeform universe engulfs the player as soon as a character is created, fusing him into the story by simply being present in a single-sharded science-fiction universe.

Everyone Plays a Role

Even those participants who choose to shun the lore are still woven into the tapestry as they select their race and bloodline, starship piloting skills and then head off into the player-populated organisation of their choice. Every player becomes the citizen of a galaxy seething with politics and treachery, violence and opportunity.

The lore of EVE Online is not purely a resource for hardcore roleplayers, it's there to be passively enjoyed by everyone with even a passing interest in epic science fiction concepts. The themes colour the environment in which the metagamers plot, it provides character to the engines of mass destruction flown in huge invasion fleets and it flavours the tactical equipment options made by every pilot.

In fact, now our entertainment is so immersive, with participants so involved in adrenaline-pumping ship-to-ship combat, our bodies can't differentiate between a fictional spaceship environment and a primordial threat that triggers a fight-or-flight response. Likewise with pleasure - we get our dopamine hits from the digital stimuli of our pixellated victories. Those players who furiously claim that they are not "roleplayers" would be right in a sense; whether they are an e-sports combat pilot, a stoic fleet commander or the "King of Space", they aren't playing a role, they're living it.

No Wizard's Hat Required

Yet the depth of fiction available for those who also choose a lore-driven path of immersion is immense. With a backstory that has grown organically over the last decade, the epic interplay of warring civilisations in a universe of amoral, technologically-enhanced humans can be overwhelming for the newcomer.

But fear not, if your interest has been piqued and you'd like to know how to dip your toe in the pond of EVE lore - or perhaps even go for a paddle - help is at hand. I am proud to present renowned EVE content-explorer and lorehound Mark726's EVE Lore Survival Guide.

I approached Mark with the idea of an "EVE Lore for Dummies"-type concept, knowing his knowledge and writing style would make him the perfect author for such a project. What I expected was two or three articles providing a quick insight. What I got was that and much more; 20,000 words of light, well-researched explanation that could be presented in short, digestible chunks. I have given it pride of place along the top bar of this very blog, but I think it deserves to evolve into something more. I suspect Mark was hoping I'd stop asking him stupid questions once he'd written it, but now I have a host of new stupid questions and after reading it, I'm sure you will too.

The Greatest Story Not Yet Told

As EVE Online continues to grow and its capsuleers live the story as it unfolds, we can only hope that the content developers at CCP have the vision to continue to push the narrative envelope, creating content that will ensnare and inspire.

H.G. Wells had only the written word to inspire millions and by simply adding audio he managed to troll a nation. Just think what is possible with a state-of-the-art server cluster, a cast and crew of hundreds of thousands and a universe as deep and stunning as New Eden.

Go tell Asimov, the future is happening. We're living it.

EVE Online: The Text Adventure --- GameSkinny Correspondent --- Freebooted Blogger
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#72 - 2012-05-25 00:19:18 UTC
EVE is big now...as someone has mentioned, they don't want to cater to the niche market that desire lore and story. They're showing off their big bucks business selling points, like emergent gameplay.

EVE is real, you are your avatar, you are the story. That rakes in the cash. Not storyline.

Meh. Maybe when they recruit again, they'll make Content/Storyline larger again.

CCP publicizes nullsec the most, even if there are more players in highsec than their...I think having IC commentaries to player actions would be great. For example, a corporation that bases in this one lowsec system and pretty much as a monopoly on all industrial activity there is ruined by pirates.

We receive a news story about how the inhabitants of that system now are suddenly unemployed. But nothing GENERIC, though...if it was a Gallente system, what will happen will be in accordance to how stuff like that goes in the Federation...same with Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar. In Fed, it goes to the local government, who debate how they're going to respond to this...meanwhile in the State, a subsidiary of the Big Eight just steps in to fill the gap.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#73 - 2012-05-25 00:36:38 UTC
Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote:
Glad one of these threads showed up

When are you fleshing out the Enheduanni storyline CCP?



I think the best way to flesh that out is an addendum where a Gallentean novelist puts down the pen and goes aw that was a satifying work of fiction to write.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-05-25 03:14:28 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
CCP publicizes nullsec the most, even if there are more players in highsec than their...I think having IC commentaries to player actions would be great. For example, a corporation that bases in this one lowsec system and pretty much as a monopoly on all industrial activity there is ruined by pirates.


Well it's in no way a stretch to imagine that the powerblocs controlling entire regions would have at least some political impact on the inner systems.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#75 - 2012-05-25 14:29:22 UTC
CCP is stuck in a Catch 22.

They aren't dedicating any effort to storyline because they're not seeing an interest in it, and there will be no interest in the storyline unless they dedicate effort to it.

Having devs work storyline stuff and events in their hours off isn't going to cut it. CCP needs to realize the marketing value of EVE's background and invest in it.

Amarrad - Amarr language project
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#76 - 2012-05-25 15:15:43 UTC
At least a new Chronicle was released today!

From my naive perspective this chronicle contains some interesting aspects, but I will see if I can point a somewhat more qualified person than me to this thread Smile

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
CCP Delegate Zero
C C P
C C P Alliance
#77 - 2012-05-25 17:09:53 UTC
Busy times, so I missed this thread until now. And as it goes, I don't make decisions on this stuff even if I do get involved from time to time.

So, answer to question one, from my personal knowledge and work with the EVE Content and Storyline teams: yes, we intend to continue the storyline.

The answer to question two is more complicated (but you knew that). The when is really now and continuing. World news is being published and developed. But the pace is not necessarily going to be a continuous flow and flood. I've seen many complaints in the past about 'ridiculous stories' ("why would we care about a few dozen miners trapped in an asteroid?" "why are we hearing about a food riot in which five people were killed?") that were, looking back, a direct result of having to produce a constant outpouring of material. Look more for tidal movements and peak moments. It's about what can be done and done well.

The how is not entirely nailed down. There are traditional ways of doing it and other means that we really have to look at because they frankly let us do more with what we have in terms of resources.

I can say a couple of things about what I personally am doing and will do in terms of the storyline and related content

Number one: in my own work on web content I still have feedback on the content of eveonline.com on my personal roadmap. There are things that I do want, and intend, to address given time.

Number two: I and colleagues am working with the EVE Content and Storyline teams on a plan to give much greater prominence and focus to the EVE story and background. This sh... stuff will happen. We will be handling this better in the future and it will make a big difference. It's a longer term plan but it will happen.

Number three: I'm actually working, as a side project, on closing a significant hanging thread in the storyline. This is getting very close to fruition.

Number four: I continue to care about this stuff and argue for its importance and prominence. It doesn't take that much incidentally, contrary to some mythology it's really pushing at an open door.

These may not be the answers you were looking for but they are the answers I can give you.

Delegate Zero (AKA Abel Jarek Blink)

CCP Delegate Zero | Content Designer - Writer | @CCPDelegateZero
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-05-25 17:15:40 UTC
I've always wondered if CCP had any *long term* story-lines.

Something akin to the old "Babylon 5" story arc, rather than the "Star Trek" episode model. Story arcs are harder, especially so when you don't know what the players will do with it (see the Sleeper Enigma and CCP Dropbear's continuing frustration that WH dwellers didn't "get" whatever clue that was out there...).

Would love to see epic arcs (empire/Sov wide, not just mission arcs). Would love to see FW redefining boundaries... etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2012-05-25 17:47:57 UTC
Jovians... please? :)

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-05-25 17:58:44 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Jovians... please? :)


They're all dead.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.