Assembly Hall

IMHO Bounty Hunting branches off and modifies reactions to crimes for which CONCORD would already approve some sort of action.

LOL - I can even theoretically see "instant" bounty hunting off stealing and GCC (probably special system bulletin board and lots of player preset choices under a single UI button to post it in timely manner).

But Vengeance for other crimes (or simple competitive advantage) that are too complex for CONCORD to rubberstamp should be covered by MERCENARY CONTRACTS and maybe some sort of new wardec by corps against individuals.

Wardeccing individual toons to expedite Mercenary vengeance should be expensive (100M per week?) and grow rapidly more expensive after some initial period of time - say 3 weeks. Only corps should be able to do it. Maybe only certain merc corps with licenses (purchase plus other requirements) and good CONCORD and faction area standings. Repeat wardecs within 6 months against the same individual by the same corp should be counted as a single cumulative wardec for fee purposes. Because opening new corps is easy, the total non-overlapping wardec time against a given individual should gathered from corps in the past 6 months employment histories of the declaring CEO or directors. That said, its the individual problem if they manage to offend multiple corps in rapid succession.

Corp, fleet and and alliance mates may want a flashing signal (green?) alternating with normal status to quickly alert them that its an individual wardec matter. However since you wouldn't see individual corpmate as GCC nor mercs aggression flagged to corp, alliance, fleet -- things should work out automatically in a natural manner. That is you can RR your friendly and enter the fight or be stupid and shoot someone not GCC or wardec flagged to you and see CONCORD same as normal.

To keep things simple Merc corps probably should be responsible for posting wardec fees against an individual --- its a business expense & gamble on their part. They can of course simply opt to gank in high sec or wait for victim to leave high sec. The same if a corp decides to pursue vengeance themselves.

Of course all the same victory/fractional reward conditions and calculation can apply to actual merc vengeance contract as to CONCORD backed bounty contracts.

*NOTE: Individuals with beef against another individual should normally be able to get CEO to post wardec against an individual.

CCP has already everything needed after inferno. Costs of the whole kill (pod and ship). In fact the FW LP payout mechanic already works analogous to my bounty proposal (link below).

Contracts could be added on top of that once core mechanics are fixed. Thats fine since contracts are controled by players, so if a player makes a mistake and contracts the wrong guy it can be "exploited". However the bounty system itself should be un-exploitable. The same way as insurances are not exploitable. (more details in the link below)

Do you all know why the current bounty system in EVE doesn't work and is a joke? It is actually quite simple. There are no real *consequences* or *penalty* for being one( a pirate or having a bounty). Even if you do run up a -10. security rating you can hang in null sec and never worry about it. Even if some idiot post a 1bil bounty on you it can easily be exploited - just have a friend pop you in game and split the reward.

No, you want this system to work, you'll have to add a real threat of *consequences* and a real threat of *penalty* for choosing the life of an outlaw.

That means when you are killed(by anyone to collect the reward - even if it is a friend or your own alt) you are captured by Concorde. For the next 10 days you cannot do anything - nothing - you cannot log the toon in and you cannot train that toon. It is in stasis. Your character is in stasis(prison) awaiting trial. After 10 days, your character goes to trial. Depending on how low your security rating is and the crimes you have committed to get that rating will determine how much it will cost to set you free from prison. If you cannot pay immediately. You must stay in prison another day. Each day you spend in prison it cost you a % of the total amount due - raising your fee to get free higher and higher.

Cost to be set free from prison depends on your security rating at the time and crimes committed. This can all be worked out by people involved in actually setting up this system - but it cannot be something that doesn't sting. It should sting.


So unless your pirate buddies are willing to put forth the ISK to set you free or you yourself are willing to spend ISK to set you free, you'll sit in jail and incur more expenses costing you more ISK to be set free.

After 30 days of being in jail, if you cannot pay, you are automatically set free. However, you are released with no ISK and lose all items you once had in your possession no matter where they were. You start at 0 security rating and a starter ship.

If you continue to wish to be a pirate and incur the penalty of someone placing a bounty on you, again, each time you are caught the consequences get steeper and steeper. The game keeps track of each time you are placed in stasis. First time in prison it is ten days. Next is 12. Next time is 14. Next time is 16. Eventually you'll be spending more time in prison than playing.

And that is how you make a real bounty system in game work. This mamby pamby, no consequences for ones actions is why the current system and the one proposed will never work. It can be too easily manipulated and exploited. This way, even having a friend pop you will cost you dearly. In fact you'd want to avoid getting popped at all if you can help it.

Then, the only people who will truly be wanting to pop you are real bounty hunter type players. They will go out of their way to pop you. They'll want to collect the reward and watch your tears flow as your character becomes a prisoner of Concorde. In fact they'll want to pop you whenever there is a bounty placed on you - almost strictly for the tears.

Then the real pirates and their pirate gangs will become notorious outlaws that should be feared if they can escape being popped. Those are truly the pirates to fear.

With out real consequences and penalties - the bounty system in this game will always be a joke. Add consequences and real penalties and the bounty system will be something to fear - as it should be.

The gist of your post is something that I utterly and irrevocably oppose. It completely contradicts the entire point of having a working bounty system which is player consequences for player acts, and would in fact gut the whole system. If you want to argue that CCP should take sides in player disputes and punish people you don't like for being mean to you, then make your own terrible proposal thread and confine your terrible ideas to that thread instead of trying to contaminate mine with them.

Okay, first this goes against game law. You can't detain a capsuleer. They will just kill themselves and wake up in a new clone where ever they want. Secondly, bounties are put on capsuleers by other capsuleers and have nothing to do with CONCORD. Thirdly, this would be very very prone to exploiting. A new player fresh out of the tutorials could put a 1 ISK bounty on every member of Goonsawm and the next time any of them died they would end up not being able to do anything whilst they awaited "trial". You could cripple an entire alliance practically for free... Fourthly, its only broken because the method of payout and ability to choose who takes the bounty is broken. No other reasons. Fithly, nothing in a game should ever have consequences that harsh, because it might as well not be a game after that point. Nothing in Eve is that harsh, nothing. And Eve is the harshest game I can think of off the top of my head.

I could keep going. There are seemingly infinite problems with your suggestion. In future, dont bother posting unless you understand what your implicating. If you really do understand what your implicating, then you want CCP to lose all its customers andjust be a generally terrible game. In which case, you should find another game.

Yes, lets totally ignore that no bounty system you come up with that is ran completely by players can be circumvented easily - and when I mean easily - your system is no better than CCP's current system because it doesn't stop anyone with a bounty on their head from being taken out by a friend in game.

Also, this was merely a proposal, a proposal to actually add a layer by which players could not circumvent. I didn't work out the fine details and make a mega post about how all it would work and how much it might cost a player in the end if they pursued being a pirate. BTW who said it would cost a billion ISK to get of or staisis? Oh and about a noob placing a 1ISK bounty on a Goon. Rules - the bounty system would have, you know...rules about how it would work. A good bounty system would have rules so that people couldn't use it as a means of griefing. It would actually require a player to break one of games tenants in game before someone can just slap a bounty on you willy nilly, and also require a certain level of security rating. Rules regarding the bounty system would need written up.

Also, you people are always saying how *hardcore* and harsh this game is, but when someone actually submits an ideal that has a harsh undertone to it you toss it aside and scream - that's too mean.

For a bounty system to work - there has to be consequences and penalties - otherwise you're just pissing in the wind.

Malcanis I am sorry you think someone discussing the bounty system in a thread about the bounty system is a bad thing(even if you created it - when you posted in this forum - it opens it up to all for discussion. I was pointing out, and you said it yourself that even your system can be exploited, so that people can circumvent anyone other than someone close to you collecting the bounty and splitting it. I think it is silly to sit and type up a huge thing about reworking the bounty system, then say...oh yeah there is still loopholes that you can fly a Titan through...but hey, at least we have a new system - even if it is no better than the previous one. Come up with a serious bounty system and stop coddling players.

BTW I'd be interested to see you post 2 of these "loopholes you can fly a titan through" (there must be at least 2 if you can speak of them in the plural)

Detail them for us, please.

In that case I retract my offer of a free wardec.

Mal, would you be able to update the OP to include that you think the Bounty payout system needs fixing first and keeping seperate from the contract system? It would be much easier to rally support if thats clear in the OP.

Lets face it, this thread is huge now. No one is going to read it from start to finnish just to get an idea of what we're talking about.

I can tell you the thoughts/ suggestions I have:

Firstly though, a caveat.

You have to read this with a thought to how this would work in the 'real world' in-game story line of EVE. To our characters, the world of EVE is not a computer game with mechanics, it is their real lives where they mine, sleep, eat, make love, fight, flee, work and steal. Concord and the Empire Navies are there to make sure that those that break the law would be punished, which would likely mean something more severe than losing your ship.

You can't read this thinking 'Oh, I don't like this simply because it would make things HARDER for my Pirate character." Too bad. In EVE, just as in the real world, a life of crime would have consequences. These would be conceived by the governments, Police, Navies, and other law enforcement agencies of the in game, in character, story line world of EVE in terms other than game mechanics such as GCC gate, negative sec status, etc.

Firstly,

1. Yes, Transferrable Kill rights are a very good idea.

That's the way bounties work in real life.The fact that there is a bounty on someone's head means they are too dangerous for the average person to handle, so the authorities need to place a cash reward for a kill or capture.

The way I would do it is this.

Let's say Blackbeard the two year old Pirate ganks Marty the Miner, a newer player. Marty now has kill rights, but not the skillpoints to take care of that pirate himself, so the 'kill rights' are useless to him.

Now, instead of paying a bounty on the pirate (which the Pirate will collect) Marty now has the option to file a complaint with the NPC DED corporation, (i.e. the Poiice) for a small fee. (like a war dec is bribing Concord). When DED collects enough of these killrights along with the filing fees, they start reassigning them through their agents to a registered bounty hunter player pilot.

-DED is the already existing in game NPC corporation that is -supposed- to be focusing their energy and efforts on the 'worst of the worst' pirates. In game of course they really do nothing except hand out missions.

-For aspiring DED 'bounty hunter agents' could be included in every station that has that bounty hunter button, with each tranferrable kill right being assigned through a DED agent. It won't be a random, assignment, there would probably be a way to match skill point levels of target and bounty, or levels of danger/ risk displayed.

-To become a bounty hunter, you would have to grind your standings with DED to a high enough point that you would be 'registered', or get a license. This would involve hunting down some NPC pirates in deadspace missions 1 through 5, before the DED agent would start assigning you kill rights. Those people who are truly dedicated to being bounty hunters would be willing to do this, but a Pirate would be unlikely to do with with an alt just to collect their own bounty.

-The bounty amount would be an amount fixed by DED, most likely something tied to skillpoints. You would also get LP points (and stores) for both bounty hunter missions and player kills.

-The target bounty would have NO way of knowing how much the bounty on them was, neither would anyone else. Only the 'Wanted' sign would appear on their profile. It might be possible that a registered/ licensed bounty hunter could still see the bounty amount, to allow for opportunistic kills.

I would also suggest that if a Pirate with a bounty gets podded, they lose their rights to use the 'legal' cloning vats.

Yes I know Pirates won't like this 'restriction', but it makes 'in game' sense.

If you are a criminal wanted dead or alive by the Police, you are shot dead in space, and if they know where all your clones are, don't you think those inanimate, stationary clones would either be arrested or destroyed before the Pirate got podded? If we discovered the exact location where clones of a condemned criminal were being grown, don't you think the Police would realistically seek out and destroy those clones?

There are of course, already illegal clone vats in the game. Pirates with a bounty on them would be restricted to using this handful of illegal, untraced cloning facilities, or possibly one in a cap ship. These illegal cloning facilities could all be placed in low sec, or null sec, or somewhere else slightly inconvenient.

I would even suggest their clones could reanimate 'already arrested' in a 'prison system', or penal colony.

The world of EVE is a 'real place', remember? DED and concord aren't computer controlled 'rats', they are actual thinking human people who would formulate a rational, logical plan to kill or capture those with a bounty.

I'm imagining something like an NPC station that has factories and a refining centre with BPCs for mining ships and modules so the pirates would have to mine, refine and build their own ships. Kind of like building your own 'shiv' in prison. Pirates could raise their sec status by killing each other. It would also be possible to do stuff like make drugs, meet other pirates and so on.

This limited access, 'dead-end' system would have it's jump-gate entrance guarded by powerful but destructible rats (like Navy) for things like jailbreaks and so on. Pirates could use their alts to haul things in and out of the system. It should be a challenge but not impossible to escape from the prison system.

What I am also thinking though is that the Pirates would have their own version of the bounty system, the 'Marked' system. While you can place a bounty on a low standings player through DED, you can place a 'Hit contract' on another player though an NPC Pirate corp. Grind standings with a pirate corp to become registered as a hitman or assassin. Then, you will be able to access assassination contracts against other players.

Same deal as with the bounty hunters, just on the other side of the law.