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[SYNE] Information Appeal - Change in Incursion Tactics
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#21 - 2012-05-24 19:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
You are doing it again telling me stories only and majority are two different things in my book,but that's alright my mind is set long time ago how to deal with your master and what opinion to take.

No one is exempted from moral and questioning the same,but from tactical point of view I must favor the most I need to work with people that lack on many ways but provide on other,and make decisions that are typical for pod pilots and all the wrong that may come with it.

You lobotomy and other disturbing things your master practice is not relevant I do not care for excuses for doing em.

I lost patience for you..anyway if any fleet tactics is needed or relative data is needed I am under clearance to provide those,it is nothing to keep out of public eye sansha feel it on their skin already.

Regards M.S.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#22 - 2012-05-24 19:52:26 UTC
Okay, you can dismiss me if you like. It doesn't change the logic behind my statements, it just means you are closing your eyes.

Believe it or not, Ms. Sebiestar, I want very much the greatest potential outcome for both humanity-as-a-whole, and Sansha's Nation-in-particular. Closing your ears to my advice just because of my allegiance is a bit of a foolish move for your long term well-being.

Regardless, I wish you the best.
Unit XS365BT
Unit Commune
#23 - 2012-05-24 20:34:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Unit XS365BT
Pilot Thessalonia.

there have, at this time, been 3 major events, where Nation changed it's strategy regarding incursions.

The first was the beginning of this current wave of incursions and use of 'second generation' vessel loadouts. this took approximately 1 week for capsuleers to counter.

The second was a smaller change in the task force size and reinforcement schedule, this took less than a day for capsuleers to counter.

This current change is not unlike those that have already occurred, there is precident that shows that capsuleers will simply counter these changes, and none to show that this, as you so vehemently claim, is the beginning of the downfall of anti-nation operations.

The evidence simply does not support your assertion.

Nation will fall, and that traitor Endoma will die by my hand

We Return.

Unit XS365BT. Designated Communications Officer. Unit Commune.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#24 - 2012-05-24 20:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberious Thessalonia
Unit XS365BT wrote:
Pilot Thessalonia.

there have, at this time, been 3 major events, where Nation changed it's strategy regarding incursions.

The first was the beginning of this current wave of incursions and use of 'second generation' vessel loadouts. this took approximately 1 week for capsuleers to counter.

The second was a smaller change in the task force size and reinforcement schedule, this took less than a day for capsuleers to counter.

This current change is not unlike those that have already occurred, there is precident that shows that capsuleers will simply counter these changes, and none to show that this, as you so vehemently claim, is the beginning of the downfall of anti-nation operations.

The evidence simply does not support your assertion.

Nation will fall, and that traitor Endoma will die by my hand

We Return.


Time will tell, and we have so very much time.

Edit: Interesting that I caught something extra in your post.
Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#25 - 2012-05-25 02:57:17 UTC
The war is neither won nor lost. No amount of posturing will change that fact.

Both sides should understand this.
Ollie Rundle
#26 - 2012-05-25 09:12:30 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
You are doing it again telling me stories only ...


Welcome to the IGS Ms. Sebiestar. Tib does indeed make a habit of piling assertion on assertion, rarely backing it with any evidence that stands up to even the slightest of considered scrutiny. When called on it, he invariably retreats into his fortress of 'logic' but having sorted through those arguments more than a few times I'm not entirely convinced he's using the word right.

We excuse him his eccentricities, of course, as he still maintains the facade of being everyone's loveable, doddering uncle who truly, really means no harm and just wants us all to live in peace and harmony.

There was of course that customs office in Perbhe a few months back which he took part in the destruction of. I'm sure he can justify the deaths or abductions of the customs workers there, of course. They were probably shaking their fists at his capsuleer controlled space-ship and gesturing threateningly or some such. Down with the oppressors and all that.

I'm sure it was only coincidence that a Nation loyalist owned office and planetary infrastructure went up on the planet a few hours later. I'm sure he and his band of noble peace-seekers aren't using those facilities for anything as banal as lowering taxes to optimise profit-based outcomes.

And given his generous and emotive use of the term 'we' when describing the great fiction of Nation persecution, I'm sure we will - at some point - see him bravely taking up arms with his fellows in the Nation incursions. Rather than just giving lip service from afar to his belief in Sansha's unity, that is.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#27 - 2012-05-25 10:54:21 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
You are doing it again telling me stories only ...


Welcome to the IGS Ms. Sebiestar. Tib does indeed make a habit of piling assertion on assertion, rarely backing it with any evidence that stands up to even the slightest of considered scrutiny. When called on it, he invariably retreats into his fortress of 'logic' but having sorted through those arguments more than a few times I'm not entirely convinced he's using the word right.

We excuse him his eccentricities, of course, as he still maintains the facade of being everyone's loveable, doddering uncle who truly, really means no harm and just wants us all to live in peace and harmony.

There was of course that customs office in Perbhe a few months back which he took part in the destruction of. I'm sure he can justify the deaths or abductions of the customs workers there, of course. They were probably shaking their fists at his capsuleer controlled space-ship and gesturing threateningly or some such. Down with the oppressors and all that.

I'm sure it was only coincidence that a Nation loyalist owned office and planetary infrastructure went up on the planet a few hours later. I'm sure he and his band of noble peace-seekers aren't using those facilities for anything as banal as lowering taxes to optimise profit-based outcomes.

And given his generous and emotive use of the term 'we' when describing the great fiction of Nation persecution, I'm sure we will - at some point - see him bravely taking up arms with his fellows in the Nation incursions. Rather than just giving lip service from afar to his belief in Sansha's unity, that is.


Wait. Hold on. Are you seriously going to start saying that I'm evil because we replaced an interbus customs office with one of our own? Really?

For your information, that process took a long enough time that there were absolutely zero casualties. We made our intentions clear from the start, and its existing crew were allowed to either leave, or stay on with our own.

This is a relatively routine transaction, Ollie, and one in which many capsuleer organizations engage.

Less benevolent was the pirate organization which later destroyed that particular customs office themselves, with a much larger fleet, leaving much less time for the crew to escape. Foundations personelle are often saved through ReAwakening. The non-foundations personelle who chose to stay on were less lucky.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#28 - 2012-05-25 10:59:06 UTC
I mean, really Ollie, this particular accusation seems a bit below you. I've always considered you to be one of the saner members of SYNE. Trying to accuse us of villainy in what is a normal occurance in space is... well... its a bit silly.
Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
#29 - 2012-05-25 11:12:30 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
You are doing it again telling me stories only ...
There was of course that customs office in Perbhe a few months back which he took part in the destruction of. I'm sure he can justify the deaths or abductions of the customs workers there, of course. They were probably shaking their fists at his capsuleer controlled space-ship and gesturing threateningly or some such. Down with the oppressors and all that.

I'm sure it was only coincidence that a Nation loyalist owned office and planetary infrastructure went up on the planet a few hours later. I'm sure he and his band of noble peace-seekers aren't using those facilities for anything as banal as lowering taxes to optimise profit-based outcomes.


You assert that the facility was destroyed [in a sufficiently small time frame] to prohibit meaningful evacuation. As a stationary civilian structure, you can be assured time was taken in its systematic removal to allow an evacuation window. That is a luxury one cannot usually afford to military installations, such as the starbases you Capsuleers are so fond of.

As for the establishment of our own facility, there is very little leeway that can be afforded in those types of devices. In more simple words, your postulation is correct - the primary purpose was taxation reduction. Anything else is merely secondary ; the facilities have a rigid inflexibility and its impossible to completely halt Capsuleer interference on planets. Mitigation, while helpful, is a salve to an already deadly wound.

Tch - SCC limitations, I do not want to even begin to describe how annoying mass produced layouts are to work with.

True Slave Foundations Overseer

ϕ
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#30 - 2012-05-25 11:16:31 UTC
Sansha's Nation is a center of excellence in the field of being ready to conquer the galaxy, having years of experience in almost being there.

Honest.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#31 - 2012-05-25 12:38:11 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:
And given his generous and emotive use of the term 'we' when describing the great fiction of Nation persecution, I'm sure we will - at some point - see him bravely taking up arms with his fellows in the Nation incursions. Rather than just giving lip service from afar to his belief in Sansha's unity, that is.


As for this, the second we can aid the incursions without CONCORD immediately jumping on us, blowing us up, and then sitting there doing nothing about the incursion they just jumped in on, you will see me out there, flying against anti-incursion fleets. At the moment, our efforts are better applied elsewhere.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#32 - 2012-05-25 12:39:11 UTC
Really, what I'm saying is that CONCORD's behavior doesn't make a lick of sense. CONCORD must be crazy.
Ollie Rundle
#33 - 2012-05-25 17:03:37 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Wait. Hold on. Are you seriously going to start saying that I'm evil because we replaced an interbus customs office with one of our own? Really?


Good? Evil? That's a little too black and white for me.

No, Tib. I'm saying that you - like the rest of us - are 'greed motivated', something you routinely criticise others for. A point which is confirmed by comments later in your same post and Ghost's also. In this thread you've stated or implied all you wish to do is peacefully co-exist and be allowed to pursue your own beliefs, but this conclusively establishes you as aggressors going about the 'relatively routine transactions' of day-to-day capsuleer business simply for the sake of saving a few ISK. Oh, the transhumanity ...

Quote:
Less benevolent was the pirate organization which later destroyed that particular customs office themselves, with a much larger fleet, leaving much less time for the crew to escape.


And I should believe you evacuated the customs office but these guys didn't? Pot, meet kettle. I'm sure I don't need to say that you have no proof one way or the other to support your claims, do you?

Quote:
The second we can aid the incursions without CONCORD immediately jumping on us, blowing us up, and then sitting there doing nothing about the incursion they just jumped in on, you will see me out there, flying against anti-incursion fleets. At the moment, our efforts are better applied elsewhere.


Can I perhaps suggest a change of tactical perspective? To my knowledge, incursions also take place in low- and null-sec space - areas where CONCORD's interference with anyone wishing to defend Nation as they go about their attempts to pillage and burn their way towards Unity is far more limited. Shifting your focus of operations to these theatres from the relatively incursion-free backwaters of western Kor-Azor might allow you to continue to fly the Sansha banner high while also helping to address the fear you have of what CONCORD will do to your shiny ships.

After all, where there's a will there's a way. And you are so very fond of spouting off endlessly about the superior will of Nation.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#34 - 2012-05-25 17:11:20 UTC
I dont know if you've noticed, but the vast majority of low-and null-security incursions never get touched by the defenders. They stay there until they complete their objectives, and then they withdraw.

Quite simply, Ollie, there is no reason to get involved with those ones. You certaintly arent.

As to the 'greed' thing, there is a difference between seeking money in terms of wealth, and seeking money because it helps us enforce our will on our surroundings. We do not use money internally, but neither are we given ships freely. We procure our own materials, and that means dealing with the outside world... something to which we are not wholy opposed, which you would know if you ever actually opened your eyes.

I'm dissapointed, Ollie. Usually you don't fall to this level of pettiness. We widely considered you one of the wisest members of SYNE. This is no longer the case, after this.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#35 - 2012-05-25 17:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I dont know if you've noticed, but the vast majority of low-and null-security incursions never get touched by the defenders. They stay there until they complete their objectives, and then they withdraw.

Quite simply, Ollie, there is no reason to get involved with those ones. You certaintly arent.

As to the 'greed' thing, there is a difference between seeking money in terms of wealth, and seeking money because it helps us enforce our will on our surroundings. We do not use money internally, but neither are we given ships freely. We procure our own materials, and that means dealing with the outside world... something to which we are not wholy opposed, which you would know if you ever actually opened your eyes.

I'm dissapointed, Ollie. Usually you don't fall to this level of pettiness. We widely considered you one of the wisest members of SYNE. This is no longer the case, after this.


I've made a conscious attempt to just observe here, but I dont think anyone in SYNE is going to be losing sleep over what supporters of kidnap, mass murder, piracy, identity theft of the highest order, and everything else I presume to be on Kuvakei's charge list, think of our personal qualities.

I would point out how condescending you sound, but I dont think you'd care much, and frankly its beside the point and would be a distraction.

**Vherokior **
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#36 - 2012-05-25 17:20:01 UTC
Okay. You know it doesn't help SYNE's public image when they accuse people of doing relatively common things as being the worst things in the world? Nice ad hominem, by the way, N'maro. This is why you were not on our 'reasonable enemies' list.
Ollie Rundle
#37 - 2012-05-25 17:28:05 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I'm dissapointed, Ollie. Usually you don't fall to this level of pettiness. We widely considered you one of the wisest members of SYNE. This is no longer the case, after this.


If pettiness is bringing to light the false foundations your assertions are based on and exposing your justifications and proclaimed ideology for the brittle things they are, count me happy to disappoint Tib.

While not as obvious or prevalent as those occurring in high-sec, some incursions in lower security space are indeed contested. There are any number of public comm channels which make monitoring of these efforts quite simple.

Sophistry aside it simply comes down to the conviction of your beliefs. You can either continue to hide behind the fear of CONCORD blowing you up in high-sec or you can seek out those incursions that are occurring farther from their scrutiny and make your mark there.

Or you can continue to mine, operate planetary facilities, run agent missions and pick off capsuleer targets of opportunity for ISK and loot in your current theatre of operations. Just like your regular run-of-the-mill capsuleer types.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#38 - 2012-05-25 17:31:36 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Okay. You know it doesn't help SYNE's public image when they accuse people of doing relatively common things as being the worst things in the world? Nice ad hominem, by the way, N'maro. This is why you were not on our 'reasonable enemies' list.


Again, last part, not important.

Now the important bit:

1) We know you physically, i.e. by means of high power ship mounted weapons or "guns" destroyed a Customs office.

2) Wait what? You let the workers leave? Well, we're enemies and all but damn it you just said it with such trustworthiness, so I'm not going to ask for evidence, like, y'know living as opposed to flash frozen dead customs workers, and just take your word for it.

3) If its not taxes, then your subsidising your own activities and that of Nation, and all the killing, kindnap, and planned cultural genocide attached. I'm not seeing how not doing it for tax reasons is making you guys moral winners, frankly.

**Vherokior **
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#39 - 2012-05-25 17:33:59 UTC
Anyways, when True Power needs us, we come to the call. For most incursions, they do not need us, hence they do not call. We apply our talents in more useful ways. Everything proceeds according to the Master's plan.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#40 - 2012-05-25 17:38:33 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Anyways, when True Power needs us, we come to the call. For most incursions, they do not need us, hence they do not call. We apply our talents in more useful ways. Everything proceeds according to the Master's plan.


N'maro Makari wrote:
killing, kindnap, and planned cultural genocide


Moral winners I'm told.

**Vherokior **