These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

First Impression of Faction Warfare -- post inferno patch

First post
Author
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-05-25 15:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
I have been having a blast. I plexed before to get fights, but the activity has increased. I ran missions occasionally before, but now I don't have to. Considering re-rigging and re-fitting my Ishtar...

And I disagree about plexes taking the strategy out of it. I think there is far more. It forces you to make due with a limited set of tools, and not just the 'Jesus Blob' or 'Put a cyno on every ship' paradigm. Plexes make ships like blaster ships, griffins, Keres, Celestis, caracals, etc useful. And you can still nano fleet and armor fleet and use logi, etc. more than one fight has come down to the attackers charging in and trying to push while the defenders are trying to run the last 30 seconds off of the button.

Jesus blob and cyno bait fleets still fight outside just like they did before, but the plexes add a whole new dimension. I'm loving it.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#22 - 2012-05-25 15:19:46 UTC
As it should be, people have been complaining about no diminishing returns if you are winning...before even thinking about it. We can't possibly keep upgrades in place with all our systems, its impossible to effectively maintain. I like that as it helps the pendulum swing the other way. Its good design IMO. We get LP bonuses and discounts, but they get far more offensive plexing and the ability to grief us by downgrading systems. A turn in the sovereignty war is happening as we speak with the hundreds of new caldari carebears. And I thank CCP for making these changes as I am loving all the fights :)

David Campbell wrote:
it's kind of like the loosing side wins.

.

nom nom

BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-05-25 15:22:53 UTC
I love the patch, its keeping me busy (more so on militia admin) trying to get caught up from spending 4 18 hour day sitting on eve.

The new patch has so many small scale fights its unbelievable. I am trying to test new ship types that allow for the pelxing of the lp (farming) but also allow you to fight instead of run.

Example I was flying the malediction and can speed tank majors and mediums. I cant get into the minors (problem) bt the biggest problem is if something were to come at my I have to fly off. So striking a new balance is important. Fight and speed.

I disagree with who gets in the pelx first wins. It is that way now, yes however tactics need to be adjusted to manage this.

For example Nexx and his dang 110k cormorant. Well how do you combat that. Damps. We will be seeing lots of new strategies.

The other thing is if you are taking systems that you do not own you will have to coordinate small minor fleets with the other two. It will make for interesting fights.

The thing I like that IMO makes this work, is people do not want to share their LP from the plexes with others. So you get more 2s and 3s out in the areas spreading people out.

I love it.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#24 - 2012-05-25 15:26:12 UTC
+1, massive numbers of fights. Let's hope it lasts.

Rewards based on being active. Being active leads to pew.

Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#25 - 2012-05-25 15:26:21 UTC
CORMI O DOOM!

BolsterBomb wrote:

For example Nexx and his dang 110k cormorant. Well how do you combat that. Damps. We will be seeing lots of new strategies.

nom nom

BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-05-25 15:32:09 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
+1, massive numbers of fights. Let's hope it lasts.

Rewards based on being active. Being active leads to pew.




QFT now indoctrinate the nay sayers on this. I think some people are still just "Im not doing it and I dont care how good it is, this patch sucks mindset"

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#27 - 2012-05-25 15:43:27 UTC
This expansion has definitely increased the amount pvp and plexing. I would do plexing before the patch - allot of it. However, I would just use the plexes to get pvp and not really run the timer.

I did get to participate in some of the fights in and around kam and Kourm that happened before the changes took effect. It was allot of fun but I really hope we don't just end up with the old "blob kourm" is the only pvp to be had mechanic. I used to like to pvp in the back waters like in frerstorn etc. Now I would be easily camped in there via the hoff cooridor so I don’t go there anymore. Looking at the killboard its pretty clear there is precious little pvp more than 2 jumps outside kourm.

However I also missed allot of the fun in kam and kourm because I had to move tons of stuff out of the war zone (including drugs that can't be contracted) and still do. It was stuff I had spent a good amount of time planting there throughout the zone so I could get more pvp. Having to spend time undoing this work really leaves a bitter taste.

And I am not done yet. I still have allot more stuff to move around and *allot* more logistics to do to get ships into the new base. This sort of shuffling work makes me dread signing on the game. Being a casual player I know I will never base out of the faction war zone again. Not unless ccp removes this no docking rule and gives some assurance they won’t implement it again.

Moreover fighting in plexes is a real pain when you can't repair rat damage except by going a few jumps out and coming back. (or using alts. yes there are options but none of them are good) The enemy warps in you have to warp out because half your tank is gone. The enemy sees you leave local assumes you are gone for good and by the time you come back he is gone too.

There is lots of new and newb blood. I don't think I have killed this many t1 fit ships in pvp ever. It has been described as a turkey shoot.

As far as the 16x multiplier yes it makes the losing sides lp pretty much worthless. But so long as there is no lp for defensive plexing I think the tides may turn.

So I don't mind it too much and I would be willing to wait to see what happens here - if they would undue the no docking rule.

But really even if they undue the no docking rule there would still not be enough to balance things out without help from a bigger alliance. If nothing else changes I think the losing side is stuck having to negotiate with a large alliances to bail them out, or just hope one decides to turn the tides for their militia for the lulz. (although I think caldari may be able to change the tides for other reasons and once/if they do gallente will basically be in the same boat)

The no docking rule is a real detriment to being able to get pvp frequently. It forces people to take more time with every reship and take more time with logistic crap. It's just a bad idea that was tacked on to what was otherwise well thought out changes. Perhaps it was the shock ccp needed to get people to do plexing again. But it’s no longer anything but a detriment to pvp.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#28 - 2012-05-25 15:48:26 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
QFT now indoctrinate the nay sayers on this. I think some people are still just "Im not doing it and I dont care how good it is, this patch sucks mindset"
No point. A certain Amarr roleplayer who shall remain nameless but has a last name of "Yoshida" will be bitter about everything associated with FW.

To be fair we'll need to see how long this lasts, but for now the pew is great and I expect lots of players to sign up as FW is reaching some sort of pew pew harmonic convergence.

To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes!
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-05-25 15:51:16 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
[quote=BolsterBomb]

To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes!



Explain

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#30 - 2012-05-25 15:51:30 UTC
Hail Goddess wrote:
I've been thinking about returning to faction warfare, because of these changes. I wont depend on it for pvp, but It will add to the mix. Caldari and Amarr side for sure. Maybe Minmatar.

I wonder if these changes have made farming faction warfare missions difficult?


The no docking rule has made farming missions easier - at least for the winning side. You will find that wartargets can't even dock in many of the systems you are sent to mission in.

The lp from the losing side is pretty much worthless so yeah there would be no point in running missions for them anyway.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#31 - 2012-05-25 15:52:14 UTC
Cearain wrote:


The no docking rule is a real detriment to being able to get pvp frequently. It forces people to take more time with every reship and take more time with logistic crap. It's just a bad idea that was tacked on to what was otherwise well thought out changes. Perhaps it was the shock ccp needed to get people to do plexing again. But it’s no longer anything but a detriment to pvp.

QCATS, the all time leading private corporation in FW kills, has quadrupled its daily number of kills since the patch. We've had no problems fighting 4 jumps into enemy territory. It seems the increase in pew vastly outweighs the costs in reshipping (so far).
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#32 - 2012-05-25 15:57:36 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
[quote=BolsterBomb]

To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes!

Explain

Incursus gets a 50% bonus to repping power and you can fit two of them into your low slots. This leads to massive repping power. You need to blob or neut these things to kill them.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-05-25 15:58:05 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
[quote=BolsterBomb]

To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes!

Explain

Incursus gets a 50% bonus to repping power and you can fit two of them into your low slots. This leads to massive repping power. You need to blob or neut these things to kill them.



How do you get 4 for 10k lp. I know the ship.....

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#34 - 2012-05-25 16:00:20 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:


The no docking rule is a real detriment to being able to get pvp frequently. It forces people to take more time with every reship and take more time with logistic crap. It's just a bad idea that was tacked on to what was otherwise well thought out changes. Perhaps it was the shock ccp needed to get people to do plexing again. But it’s no longer anything but a detriment to pvp.

QCATS, the all time leading private corporation in FW kills, has quadrupled its daily number of kills since the patch. We've had no problems fighting 4 jumps into enemy territory. It seems the increase in pew vastly outweighs the costs in reshipping (so far).


Well there have been several other changes besides the no docking rule. I think they have indeed helped promote pvp and plexing.


I think your post is an example of what I am seeing allot of with respect to these changes. So I would ask that you consider this:

Cearain wrote:
Arguments I am seeing:

Permise 1: CCP made 15 different changes to faction war.

Premise 2: PVP and plexing has increased.

Conclusion: Therefore each and every one of the 15 changes was good and none of them could be bad.



While I agree that premise 1 and 2 are true the logic is horrible.


This is why the idea of lets "wait and see" what happens is illogical. The data won't answer what changes are causeing which results because there are simply too many changes at once. They are essentially confounding variables.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Wenron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-05-25 16:01:51 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
One problem I see is the LP multiplier for the losing faction. Rich faggots like me don't care about the LP. But I've listened to a decent amount of people on comms talk about how they aren't sure if they'll be able to continue funding their losses via FW. The 4x multiplier Amarr started with pretty much made their LP useless. But we'll see. Again, doesn't really affect me but it will definitely impact newer/poorer players.


In theory if you need more LP for the same object then the price for the object should rise over time which should compensate the higher need of LP. We will see how this will work out in practice for example on Slicer prices.


I think we will see the demand for those products drop; especially when prices for pirates ships (which tend to be superior) are holding steady.



Seems to me that datacore market manipulation by the reduced LP faction would be the way to go. Added bonus if you have ties with invention. But that is just a theory. vOv
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#36 - 2012-05-25 16:04:25 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
[quote=BolsterBomb]

To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes!

Explain

Incursus gets a 50% bonus to repping power and you can fit two of them into your low slots. This leads to massive repping power. You need to blob or neut these things to kill them.



How do you get 4 for 10k lp. I know the ship.....

10k LP = 1 comet, 1 comet = 20 mil, 20 mil = 4 incursus. Rough estimate of course, assuming baseline LP payout.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#37 - 2012-05-25 16:07:04 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
QFT now indoctrinate the nay sayers on this. I think some people are still just "Im not doing it and I dont care how good it is, this patch sucks mindset"
No point. A certain Amarr roleplayer who shall remain nameless but has a last name of "Yoshida" will be bitter about everything associated with FW.

To be fair we'll need to see how long this lasts, but for now the pew is great and I expect lots of players to sign up as FW is reaching some sort of pew pew harmonic convergence.

To all the newer players out there. Gallente FW needs you! Join the FDU! 10k LP/ minor plex means you can buy 4 dual rep Incursus (these things are beasts) every 10 minutes!



Yeah right. All amarr are just whiners. That explains why they are less keen on this expansion than the other militias.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-05-25 16:08:37 UTC

10k LP = 1 comet, 1 comet = 20 mil, 20 mil = 4 incursus. Rough estimate of course, assuming baseline LP payout.[/quote]


How are you getting 10k comets? I thought you were at the same warzone control as us (tier 1) . What am I missing?

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#39 - 2012-05-25 16:09:24 UTC
Wenron wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
One problem I see is the LP multiplier for the losing faction. Rich faggots like me don't care about the LP. But I've listened to a decent amount of people on comms talk about how they aren't sure if they'll be able to continue funding their losses via FW. The 4x multiplier Amarr started with pretty much made their LP useless. But we'll see. Again, doesn't really affect me but it will definitely impact newer/poorer players.


In theory if you need more LP for the same object then the price for the object should rise over time which should compensate the higher need of LP. We will see how this will work out in practice for example on Slicer prices.


I think we will see the demand for those products drop; especially when prices for pirates ships (which tend to be superior) are holding steady.



Seems to me that datacore market manipulation by the reduced LP faction would be the way to go. Added bonus if you have ties with invention. But that is just a theory. vOv


This will work if all the people with research agents are dumb and don't have their research alts getting the amarr datacores. How long do you think that will last?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#40 - 2012-05-25 16:10:48 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
It seems the increase in pew vastly outweighs the costs in reshipping (so far).
Emphasizing that cost associated with not being able to reship is acknowledged. Also emphasizing the cost is less than the benefit of the 14 other things CCP has implemented.

Geez, have some fun and quit nitpicking game design. You have the fights you've always claimed you've wanted for the past 3 years. Enjoy them while you can.