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I really Know why Eve don't get more Players....
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Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#161 - 2012-05-24 20:34:48 UTC
mxzf wrote:
So, your 'solution' for a problem that doesn't actually exist (Eve being a niche game isn't a problem, it's a feature) is to suggest that the very heart of Eve (dangerous space with PvP anywhere and everywhere) be ripped out and thrown away. It's not going to happen.


this

Go beyond the edge of space... Explore
Newz Bie
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#162 - 2012-05-24 20:36:23 UTC
I play eve BECAUSE its different, so by offering a place for the nasty disgusting people who play WoW to congregate in eve would quite probably stop me from playing it.

I think if we change EvE to be like the other MMO's out there the current playerbase would stop playing and that would hurt CCP. Eve has a pretty nice community for the most part and if we start to attract people from other MMO's that community would perish.

-1
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#163 - 2012-05-24 20:36:49 UTC
Grimolfr Ronuken wrote:
My understanding is that joining a corp or even fleeting up with someone, among the obvious potential benefits, also gives them the right to basically blow you up and steal your crap even in 1-sec with no repurcussions.

Joining a corp lets them blow you up. It's up to you how to not be fool enough to join a corp that actually does that. Joining a fleet lets them loot the same wrecks as you, but other than that, no real access to your stuff. Same with the corp. Maybe you need to read more closely.

Grimolfr Ronuken wrote:
BTW, you might want to work on your Google rankings. I just did a search for "EVE Rookie Help" and your blog isn't on either of the first two pages of results. Not meant to be mean or snarky in any way. If your goal is really to help rookie pilots, they need to be able to find you using the methods they're going to try.

Perhaps. There are several reasons that may be happening -- among them me not caring that much about SEO right now -- but this thread isn't the place to discuss them.
Grimolfr Ronuken wrote:
How exactly is a "True Rookie" supposed to know which sources are reliable and which ones lead down the path of despair? Is there some special tattoo that differentiates trustworthy veterans from scammers? (<-- hyperbole)

Common sense, and recommendations of others. If you ask for a cheap newbie PvE fit and someone gives you a T2-fit 90 mil ISK Drake, while someone else gives you a 10 mil ISK Rupture, who would you rather trust?
Grimolfr Ronuken wrote:
No, but it is relevant to whether or not it's worthwhile to have some way for rookie's to get worked into the snake pit gradually instead of thrown in head first: Here's a ship. Here's some ammo. Here's a gun. Here's how you put the gun on the ship. Here's how you fire it. Bye.

The new player experience is difficult, and has been for years. CCP is working at making it better, but they have a long way to go. Birds fly, fish swim, and Eve's NPE is like faceplanting into a brick wall and being told to climb it. There are others climbing it too, who you could ask for help or collaboration. There are some at the top of the wall that are pissing on the climbers, some who are standing high and mighty, and some who are actually reaching to help those climbing. I'll leave it to you to figure out what to do.
Grimolfr Ronuken wrote:
I didn't ask, but thank you. I'll hold onto that for when I actually have the money and skills to afford and operate that ship and those guns. (<-- I'm trying to reiterate a subtle point there. Not-so-subtle any more, I'm afraid.)

And I will reiterate something I said: I can make a much cheaper setup that works just as well if I had more specific requirements than "a PvE setup". L1 missions/hisec belts? I have some destroyer fits that are pretty neat. L2 missions/lowsec belts? I have some cruisers I can recommend.

Solo Eve is pretty much horrible. Working together is essential. However, there are shades of grey. The line between "friend", "ally", "foe" and "scammer" is blurred, so you need to be careful what you do and how you do it.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#164 - 2012-05-24 20:45:00 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:


Solo Eve is pretty much horrible. Working together is essential. However, there are shades of grey. The line between "friend", "ally", "foe" and "scammer" is blurred, so you need to be careful what you do and how you do it.

Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#165 - 2012-05-24 20:57:08 UTC
Allyxy wrote:

Before coming to the point, I’ve to say that I’ve been myself a game developer and now CEO of an IT firm, I also played a lot of games online and offline for many years, including many of the today online best-of-breed games and a core eve player since more than two years now running multiple accounts.



Allyxy,

Let me say, before coming to my point, that I have been myself a maritime navigation systems developer, the CEO of two IT firms, spent three weeks as Acting Supreme Commander, NATO Allied Forces Europe (it's classified, I can't talk about it), and am now the democratically elected President of the Federated States of Micronesia. I have also been playing checkers almost my entire life and I can spit a watermelon seed fifty yards on a calm day.

All of this relevant experience has led me to the inescapable conclusion that you, sir, are a boob.

Good day to you.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-05-24 21:00:38 UTC
alittlebirdy wrote:
TLDR we found out anyways the servers can't deal with many more people

Also I've is not used how you think it is.


Also, commas and other puncuations are used in sentences sometimes. Big smile


I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Tech3ZH
Doomheim
#167 - 2012-05-25 07:07:10 UTC
Allyxy wrote:

5. Ah, one very brilliant idea posted a few comments up: remove stargates in non-pvp area! Let ppl to slowboating around, enjoy the scenery, fly low altitude on planet surfaces etc... no more gate camps! (in non-pvp areas obv). Actually this idea is quite cool for PVP area too but prolly deserve much more time to get tested well.




Shocked Dude? Do you have any idea of the distances involved and how horribly long it would take people to slowboat them?

1 AU (Astronomical Unit, see how many are in your next jump) = 149.000.000 km

149 million km! How long does it take you to go 100 km? How many 100s go into 1 million?...x149....xhowever many AU between places... I'm sure you see how long it would take to get around?

RL cryogenic-chamber gameplay...doesn't sound like much fun...
Plentath
Sparkle Motion.
#168 - 2012-05-25 08:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Plentath
Grimolfr Ronuken wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

You've caught me, I run a for-newbies blog, answers questions in the new player Q&A forum (which, by the way, has LOTS of info and a newbie-friendly community), and recruit people with no experience or skill points whatsoever in order to help them get started in Eve... but I am actually just a newbie griefer. It really amuses me when people toss out silly ignorant accusations.


Yes... Grim can read. The one who thinks I have no right to want a Ferrari or eat in 5-star restaurants mentioned that you run a rookie guild.

You completely missed the point of the analogy. It was to show that changing something to suit a lower common denominator can be monumentally detrimental.
We can all agree that a larger space for luggage in a car is better, yes? We can all agree there is never a NEED for less, yes? Surely, all else being equal, larger luggage space sells more cars? This is a logical truth.

Now. Consider the Ferrari 599 GTO. Would the car be as desirable if they trippled the luggage space, and in doing so ruined the design and performance?

Applied to EvE, where the playerbase love the game BECAUSE it is brutal and hard, making it easier at the expence of it's unique selling point has to be the worst idea possible.

Beyond that, saying I can't discuss this because I'm not a noob is fundamentally flawed; I had to start somewhere and so do you. In fact - it's getting easier and easier to be a new player, so YOU don't know what it's like Roll

The whole thing is like a teenager yelling at his parents that they DON'T UNDERSTAND MAN!

Having said all that, there really IS a massive amount of information out there on EvE to read up on.

Here's one such piece to keep you busy: http://www.isktheguide.com/

Anything else is pretty specific, but yes, it is very much out there. Need to probe? "Eve probing guide" in google does wonders. Need to mine? "eve mining guide" -- etc.

No one is against you being new, we are against you coming on here and giving terrible advice when you have no idea what you're doing. It's like me having one driving lesson, then going onto a forum about driving and saying "I find it better to leave my foot slightly on the brake pedal, it's better as you can react faster" - well intentioned, perhaps, but completely wrong with the danger of being massively nocuous to the original aim.

Your position as it stands is to read and listen, and potentially assist other new players, but not to come and make sweeping statements like "EvE isn't worth playing in the first month."

Good news is you're at least trying to engage with the community, which puts you one-up with most of the idiots you'll find littering highsec.

Read around, always consider the source of any advice you hear, and try to apply it - ask specifics when it goes wrong.

Good luck, and sodding play the game.

n.b. it sounds like you've not completed the Sisters of EvE epic arc, so haul your ass to Arnon (star system) and get on it.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#169 - 2012-05-25 09:09:16 UTC
I prefer a game where I actually have to think to succeed.

I prefer a game where I can pull out all the stops, because the other players are doing the same.

I prefer a game where I can be either a hero or an absolute villain because I choose my own path, the game doesn't choose it for me.

I prefer a game where if I want safety, I have to figure out how to create and enforce it.

I prefer a game where if I attain my goals I earned it, not because the game set goals for me and decides how and when I will automatically reach them.

I don't think I'd like your game very much, that's why I play EVE instead.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2012-05-25 09:45:50 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
yes, let's take eve and turn into the lowest common denominator prolefeed to appease subhuman mongrels like yourself

you mean Eve being "griefing online" is not the lowest common denominator? Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#171 - 2012-05-25 09:55:26 UTC
Yes, I would love for EVE to get 10 million more subscribers. But only if those 10 million subscribers want to pew. If not they can go play something else.

I like it best when the beats are naked.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#172 - 2012-05-25 10:03:30 UTC
I agree.

Add new non-PvP space, or reduce empire to non PvP by eliminating suicide ganking in empire.

Low sec, whs and null can retain their "we live to blow stuff up" lifestyle

Expand on WiS gameplay to allow social areas and pvp areas.

If all you wanna do is blow stuff up, Battlefield 3 is that way ->

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#173 - 2012-05-25 10:15:12 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
I agree.

Add new non-PvP space, or reduce empire to non PvP by eliminating suicide ganking in empire.

Low sec, whs and null can retain their "we live to blow stuff up" lifestyle

Expand on WiS gameplay to allow social areas and pvp areas.

If all you wanna do is blow stuff up, Battlefield 3 is that way ->


If all I want to do is blow stuff up, EVE is right here. CCP's marketing agrees with me. CCP Devs agree with me. The 8 years of not changing the focus of EVE agree with me.

If you want EvE without non-consensual PvP, SISI is just a short install away.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ymmi Stenson
Future Overlords
#174 - 2012-05-25 10:18:17 UTC
Allyxy wrote:
I think I’m going to express now a very controversial opinion that will be prolly fought especially by veteran eve players.

However I feel I have to talk. Shocked

It seems that there is a “mantra” in eve that cannot be discussed because, for many players, it’is the fundamental reason why they play Eve… at the same time I think this is exactly the same reason why Eve is a relatively “Niche” game that, in it’s current format, cannot really aspire to a larger audience of players.

Before coming to the point, I’ve to say that I’ve been myself a game developer and now CEO of an IT firm, I also played a lot of games online and offline for many years, including many of the today online best-of-breed games and a core eve player since more than two years now running multiple accounts.

So, In my modest opinion, the MAIN big point why EVE, in its current form, is destined to remain a “core ppl game” with a relatively small number of players is this:

“PVP”

Wow PVP!!!!

Yes, this is the main reason why many of us like this game so much and this is exactly why much more ppl don’t like it.
It’s easily to check with relatives and friends the main problems they encounter when they get into the game, we all know about learning curve, scarce tutorial, cold interface, complex actions etc… however if you dig deeper, while some like to try pvp sooner or later, many more are completely scared by it, frustrated if they try it and, most important, they don’t want to care about competition!

Yes, think about it without prejudice: compared to the number of competitive ppl that like games like EVE today, many more prefer cooperative game environment.

Don’t tell me that EVE is cooperative…. I know it is, but most of the cooperation is always open to PVP and you have to plan all you work on the game, you corp, your alliance etc… around PVP.

A simplistic example: I met many many ppl that would love to join fleet where they cannot kill each other nor be attacked by other players etc… but just focus con carebearing things like exploration, plexing, mining etc…
Beware, I’m not saying remove PVP from EVE!

What I’m saying is that if we would like to have double players, or triple or ten times what we have today, EVE shall implement places where non-competitive, non-aggressive, friendly players can simply enjoy the fly in space and the sandbox universe (OBV Empire today is not the answer, way too much PVP takes place there).
Most non-pvp ppl don’t really want to care about win something against other players, but just fix their own simple targets and try to make those with some friends or even alone.

Someone could argue: do we really want 10 times more players in eve? Or 10 times more carebears?
My answer would be YESSSSS!!!! All life long!

At least three very good reasons:
1. We can finally have some (or some more) RL friends playing the game we love with us!
2. CCP will have 10 time more real life ISKS to provide us a much better game, with faster implementation and a bigger universe
3. We will have a bigger market, more options, more isks and overall more fun

To finish this long and probably boring issue, something for CCP:
Every time you say, advertise, write or in any other way put out sentences like “more shooting in face, more player wars etc…” while you push up the core-players for sure, you LOSE MANY MANY more potential players!

I had to say the above for the passion I have toward EVE, don’t shoot me now but if you want to I’m ready Bear

Allyxy
Lol


It is a sandbox. Nothing is forcing you to PVP.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#175 - 2012-05-25 10:19:14 UTC
Allyxy wrote:


Before coming to the point, I’ve to say that I’ve been myself a game developer and now CEO of an IT firm, I also played a lot of games online and offline for many years, including many of the today online best-of-breed games and a core eve player since more than two years now running multiple accounts.




You write like a high school kid. Maybe English is not your first language.
Do any of the games you developed have 20k+ players on every day?
Why exactly does your thinking run in the "more is better" rut? Quality =/= quantity.
Why do people who should be dancing try to tell the dj what to play? Why do they pay any attention to the dj at all?
Why are all the suggestions in this thread complete garbage, without exception?



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Rogue Drone Recovery Syndicate
#176 - 2012-05-25 11:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: destiny2
compairing wow to eve in pvp lol. wow is for pansies. in wow when you die you can waltz back to your body and all your stuffs is still there in eve. that doesnt happen to much.

you also have to look at the new games that just came out as well.

Diablo III
Aeon
Old Republic,
etc

i know alot of eve players are prolly spending alot of their time on Diablo III as it does look to be a intresting game.

I got alot of buddies who pay same price per month as i do 14.95$ to play World Of Warcraft,

but i wont play wow as eve can offer a hell of a lot more oppurtunities. then world of warcraft can.
Angel Scott
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#177 - 2012-05-25 11:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Angel Scott
Re: OP's Post.

When I first started playing eve, I spent most of my time in Deltole zipping about the Comet static plex. It was usually populated with the same peeps who all pretty much lived there. We used to have a lot of fun looting each others wrecks, teaming up to pop rats, teaching each other tricks, teaching the newbs how to play. If there were more static highsec plexes, of varying difficulties, you'd get a lot more carebears chilling in these places and sticking around, because damnit, we had a lot of fun in Deltole.

By the time I got, and the peeps I used to fly with, got bored of the place, we were skilled up, and experienced enough, and made corp connections to go PVP in lowsec.
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2012-05-25 11:30:19 UTC
OP TL;DR;


"I want to be able to have a safe corp to farm isk 24/7 without any risk of losing anything";


There, fixed the topic.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Rogue Drone Recovery Syndicate
#179 - 2012-05-25 11:34:04 UTC
Welsige wrote:
OP TL;DR;


"I want to be able to have a safe corp to farm isk 24/7 without any risk of losing anything";


There, fixed the topic.


i hear goon space is really nice this time of year.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#180 - 2012-05-25 11:44:53 UTC
I played other, smaller, browser based MMOs before eventually finding my way to EVE. They were ok and I'd made a few friends and had some RL friends who played alongside me, but eventually I started looking at other games to play, hoping to find something that would be better than the browser game I'd played for a year or so.

I visited the World of Warcraft website, looked at the cartoonish colours and immediately left. It did not appeal one bit.

I visted the EVE website, saw the darker colour scheme, started reading, found other sites and blogs, read through the forums. I did this for maybe 2 years, picking up information and getting a clearer picture of what the game was about and it sounded like something I would enjoy playing. I don't like having my hand held, I'm quite independent and able to take care of myself and if things mess up I accept I made a mistake, clean up the mess and move on. EVE seemed to be that kind of environment.

So after 2 years of reading, exploring and learning I eventually was able to get myself sorted with a computer that could run the game and had enough time to sit down and play. I signed up, installed, logged in and I've never looked back.

This game will not appeal to everyone and the developers accept and even built it as a niche game. If it's not your type of game, fair enough, but it is home to those of us who have a certain temperament, those of use who like taking responsibility for ourselves, making our own mistakes, laughing them off and climbing back on the horse to go see if we can fall off again. We're quite able to separate the actions we take in game from those we would in our real lives and see it as a game that caters to our mindset, that being 'knock me down and I get right back up again'.

It's about the only game that does cater to people like me and I'd hate to see it softened to appeal to those who feel that it should be just like all those game that wrap you in cotton wool and given a cookie even when you screw things up. I've learned some harsh lessons over the years and I get more out of learning them the hard way than being told it's ok if you don't get it right, you still get the reward anyway. It means more if you have to actually persevere and take the time and effort to reach your goal.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.