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Warfare & Tactics

 
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ECM, still viable?
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Ymmi Stenson
Future Overlords
#1 - 2012-05-12 12:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ymmi Stenson
I have been away from fleet warfare for years. Last time I was engaged in large fleet warfare, we did fly sniping RRBS gangs and sniping HAC gangs with heavy load of Falcons. I hear that they have been nerfed.

Are falcons, blackbirds, griffins and scorpions still viable tools in fleet warfare?

Are ECM drones as they were three years ago?
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-05-12 15:26:07 UTC
As far as I know, the ECM probability equations have not changed. There are now more ships out there with high "scan points" which make them hard to jam, but I haven't noticed any substantial ECM nerfs.

I think ECM is still a viable method, but realize that most fleets know to primary ECM boats. If you put yourself in a position where you can be shot, you will be.

If you're going to use ECM, you need to familiarize yourself with the ECM probability equations. Once you do it a bit, you'll have a very good idea of exactly how many jams you need to lock up a ship.

To review the probability Equations, see below under the topic "How it works"
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Electronic_warfare_guide

Tactics in this game continue to evolve... I don't think doing what you did 3 years ago will work anymore. And what we're doing now won't work 3 years from now. New equipment, new tactics, new thinking, and changing leadership in the game keep it from getting stagnant.

It's a changing game and that's a good thing.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#3 - 2012-05-12 15:31:26 UTC
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I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

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Frau Leinsmarch
Mimics
#4 - 2012-05-12 19:44:53 UTC
ECM still = you jammed, you mad bro?

ECM drones are usefull, even just getting 1 jam cycle on your enemy could save your arse in a tight situation.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-05-13 01:31:40 UTC
Ymmi Stenson wrote:
I have been away from fleet warfare for years. Last time I was engaged in large fleet warfare, we did fly sniping RRBS gangs and sniping HAC gangs with heavy load of Falcons. I hear that they have been nerfed.


I'm not sure if the Falcon range nerf happened while you were gone or not.

Quote:
Are falcons, blackbirds, griffins and scorpions still viable tools in fleet warfare?


Fleet warfare? Falcons not so much, blackbirds yes (due to range bonus), griffins no, Scorpions are particularly effective since they can employ heavy neuts as well on sig-tanked and/or cap-dependent fleet comps.

Quote:
Are ECM drones as they were three years ago?


There haven't been any changes in the last two years at least.
Ymmi Stenson
Future Overlords
#6 - 2012-05-13 05:34:10 UTC
Thanks for replying.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#7 - 2012-05-13 08:08:26 UTC
I be jammin erryday in my Blackbird.

.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#8 - 2012-05-14 14:37:05 UTC
Unfortunatelly, yes.
Kriegman
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-05-14 14:49:10 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Unfortunatelly, yes.


Why unfortunately? Do you consider ECM dishonorable because it makes you dead without possibility of retaliation?
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#10 - 2012-05-14 15:11:32 UTC
In small gang ECM is way OP, as the gangs get larger it becomes less effective.

nom nom
Kriegman
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-05-14 15:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kriegman
Princess Nexxala wrote:
In small gang ECM is way OP, as the gangs get larger it becomes less effective.


Not true. In alpha fleet doctrine ECM scorpions are critical to jamming out enemy DPS or logi upon FC request. One scorpion can easily remove DPS of several hostile ships or logis while main fleet is tearing through the enemy fleet, its a force multiplier. With proper fleet composition, we can easily shutdown all hostile reps, its as if they never had logi.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-05-14 16:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Princess Nexxala wrote:
In small gang ECM is way OP, as the gangs get larger it becomes less effective.


This isn't true at all. What becomes more ineffective is Falcons and their typical fitting, which get exposed as poorly-fit jokeboats in fleet combat.
Ramon Sohei
The Florez Law Firm
#13 - 2012-05-14 18:02:45 UTC
@OP
Don't know how many years but Falcons at sniping ranges are a thing of the past. The only sniper ECM ship these days is the Scorpion.
Joe Censored
Wok The Dog
Naga Please.
#14 - 2012-05-15 22:52:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Censored
ECM hasn't been nerfed since the last time they nerfed it a while ago. Viable still, more so for certain situations. ECM drones are probably due for a nerf though. Falcons typically optimal around 60km depending on skills and fit.

What is helpful for ECM pilots is instead of just fitting ECCM, their victims still prefer to lose their ships and cry on the forums about ECM being overpowered instead of adjusting their tactics and ship fits to reality. Fine by me, let them cry.
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#15 - 2012-05-15 23:26:49 UTC
Any gang over 3 can handle a single falcon.

When it comes to solo pvp however, them having a falcon is just end game for you. You either have to nanfag it away or die when scrammed. However I still think it needs tweaked to bring in line with other ECM, racial jammers only jamming that race, reduce multi jam strength and give the racial ECCM a buff to counter racial jammers but not multis, only omni eccm can counter those, et

ECM drones are still op as ****
Serina Tsukaya
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#16 - 2012-05-25 08:50:34 UTC
Hasn't the target spectrum breaker done something to counter this?