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x10 to the structure hp of the exhumers
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Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-05-24 16:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Skippermonkey
sabre906 wrote:
Not just Hulk, but all the other exhumers and barges that have even less structure. Most of them have less structure than a heavy drone, it's ret4rd3d. Sure, barges should gankable, but this is over the top.Roll


POsting some useless stats in line with a useless quote

Hulk
Structure Hitpoints
2,531 HP

Ogre II
Structure Hitpoints
1,421 HP

---

Mackinaw
Structure Hitpoints
1,266 HP

Hammerhead II
Structure Hitpoints
710 HP

---

Skiff
Structure Hitpoints
633 HP

Hobgoblin II
Structure Hitpoints
355 HP

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-05-24 16:16:13 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Not just Hulk, but all the other exhumers and barges that have even less structure. Most of them have less structure than a heavy drone, it's ret4rd3d. Sure, barges should gankable, but this is over the top.Roll


POsting some useless stats in line with a useless quote

Hulk
Structure Hitpoints
2,531 HP

Ogre II
Structure Hitpoints
1,421 HP

---

Mackinaw
Structure Hitpoints
1,266 HP

Retriever
Structure Hitpoints
983 HP

Ogre II
Structure Hitpoints
1,421 HP

---

Skiff
Structure Hitpoints
633 HP

Procurer
Structure Hitpoints
469 HP

Ogre II
Structure Hitpoints
1,421 HP
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#23 - 2012-05-24 16:46:19 UTC
Velicitia wrote:


Why is it a "bad" thing that it's not cost-effective to run a hulk in hisec?

Seriously, it gets ~15% better yield than the Covetor, which has more than enough tank to deal with the rats that show up... and is significantly cheaper


Funnily enough that's exactly what I use to mine (including ice) in high sec. The drop in production is more than offset by the lack of losses. Most gankers don't see Coveters as valid targets, especially if the chap sitting next to you is in a tech II ship. So, from my perspective it isn't a "bad" thing if just taken from the high sec perspective.

It just seems wrong that haulers can fit a decent tank but mining ships can't. The Tech II Exhumers are supposed to be decently tanked industry ships but I can tank a tech I hauler in such a way as to completely defecate all over the tech II mining ships. That seems to be badly balanced to me.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-05-24 16:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Trollin wrote:
2,531 =/= 25,310

anybody who gets ganked after that deserves it for not running a dcu II, which would get it up to ~65k ehp, which would take ~2-3 ganknados, which would cost as much as the hulk, which is fair.

it takes a billion isk of ganknado to pop a billion isk freighter amirite?

why does it only take 10m isk dessie to pop a 300m exhumer?

esp when miners are usually industrial, you would think they would fortify their machines beyond what a combat pilot could comprehend.



Good arguement... Balance is balance.. a ship that is supposed to be the pinnicle of mining should be able to be on per with the best tanking ships of it's size. this at least gives the hulk a better chance... though not too much.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-05-24 17:01:47 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Skippermonkey wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Not just Hulk, but all the other exhumers and barges that have even less structure. Most of them have less structure than a heavy drone, it's ret4rd3d. Sure, barges should gankable, but this is over the top.Roll


POsting some useless stats in line with a useless quote

Hulk
Structure Hitpoints
2,531 HP

Ogre II
Structure Hitpoints
1,421 HP

---

Mackinaw
Structure Hitpoints
1,266 HP

Retriever
Structure Hitpoints
983 HP

Ogre II
Structure Hitpoints
1,421 HP

---

Skiff
Structure Hitpoints
633 HP

Procurer
Structure Hitpoints
469 HP

Ogre II
Structure Hitpoints
1,421 HP




...and the lesson we learn is we should be mining in Ogre IIs

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#26 - 2012-05-24 17:02:32 UTC
02,531

There you go, I added a 0 to the Hulk's Hull HP. Are you happy now?
Callic Veratar
#27 - 2012-05-24 17:47:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Callic Veratar
mxzf wrote:
02,531

There you go, I added a 0 to the Hulk's Hull HP. Are you happy now?


You might want to read up on significant digits. That is not "added" as the current HP is 000...0002,531.000...000
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#28 - 2012-05-24 18:21:09 UTC
The Hulk packages up so tight that you can fit a packaged one with all fittings and rigs into a GSC.

Not a whole lot of structure there, it is mostly empty space.

Just sayin'.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2012-05-24 18:33:27 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
To bad that RL money worth several months isn't taken into that account, because all you need a 21 day buddy trial and avoid the risk to your main.
“Too bad”? No, that's a good thing.
It means you can't overcome adversity just by being old.

Quote:
But funny that, I do recall this other vessel where price isn't taken into account...its just a pain to train, build, and fly. What was it called...oh yeah...a Titan.
Yes, the titan is a very good example. Just because it's expensive and takes a lot of time to train for doesn't mean it should make scores of other ships meaningless. Like everything else, it should be vulnerable to smaller ships and die horribly if caught in a bad spot. That's why it got the nerf: because it did things too well, and because cost and difficulty to train aren't things you can use to balance a ship.

Barbara Nichole wrote:
Good arguement... Balance is balance.. a ship that is supposed to be the pinnicle of mining should be able to be on per with the best tanking ships of it's size.
That's a non sequitur if I ever saw one. Ugh
Why should it be that? What does mining have to do with tanking ability? Its tanking ability is already on par with many other T2 cruisers — why does the Hulk need more?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-05-24 18:36:20 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
The Hulk packages up so tight that you can fit a packaged one with all fittings and rigs into a GSC.

Not a whole lot of structure there, it is mostly empty space.

Just sayin'.


An Ogre must be huge!Big smile
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#31 - 2012-05-24 18:49:28 UTC
Hulks are weird that way, one of the few ships that can hold itself twice over repackaged.

It's like Mary Poppins bag when you assemble it, I guess.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#32 - 2012-05-24 19:41:38 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
mxzf wrote:
02,531

There you go, I added a 0 to the Hulk's Hull HP. Are you happy now?


You might want to read up on significant digits. That is not "added" as the current HP is 000...0002,531.000...000


Actually, the single leading zero means that it's octal, not decimal. 02531 would be 1,369 decimal.

So, actually, if you add a zero to the Hulk's hull points, it does become about as tough as an Ogre II.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#33 - 2012-05-24 20:31:51 UTC
I fully support adding another digit to the structure of a hulk. Everyone is after carebear tears, but really, griefer tears are so much sweeter because they like to think they have none to shed :)
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-05-24 20:36:41 UTC
RR hulk drone/neut fleet? Sign me up!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#35 - 2012-05-24 20:44:08 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Because price is not a factor in balance, and because the exhumer is a resource collection vehicle, not a combat ship (and even then, the Hulk is already surprisingly strong for its size).

To bad that RL money worth several months isn't taken into that account, because all you need a 21 day buddy trial and avoid the risk to your main. I still belive that all asteroid belts, reprocessing skills, and mining skills should be removed from game but if CCP won't do it just biomass your character as it works just as well.

But funny that, I do recall this other vessel where price isn't taken into account...its just a pain to train, build, and fly. What was it called...oh yeah...a Titan. It was designed as a fleet buster and was ment to destroy every ship on grid until the whines of a million crybabies rose up out of the silence (even the Jedi felt that one). Funny that...XL guns did just that as well as an AoE DD until it was nerfed. Oh, and its funny....a hulk pilot needs to fit tank so it doesn't blow up but a dude in a subcap doesn't need to fly something with sufficent tank that a sub cap ship doesn't blow up. Which means...its not the fault of the guy blowing you up, both the fault of both the hulk pilot and the sub cap pilot by not adapting in a way that doesn't result in them exploding (one fits tank, other flys a cap ship instead of a sub cap)...so un nerf Titan guns. Titan's are not OP, you just suck and refuse to find a way to counter it without whining to CCP.

But watch Tippia try to counter that logic...one needs to fit tank, other should fly anything but sub cap when facing a titan fleet. It is logical, fit tank on hulk or fly a bigger ship = you don't blow up to a destroyer or titan XL guns so easily.
I'll have whatever you're smoking.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#36 - 2012-05-24 21:35:43 UTC
Come on guys! Admit it! You want to see an invincible hulk just to watch some guys cry because they couldn't 1-shot it!
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-05-24 23:40:32 UTC
Trollin wrote:
2,531 =/= 0.2531

Should of said that sooner, but the hulk so deserves that change. What a ******* pointless ship to fly, this would help reinforce the idea that 1) Nobody likes and Respect you and 2) Miners are not needed, as if gun mining and mission loot (pre-nerfing) could out produce you then in fact you chose the wrong profession (<-- good reason to return gun mining, all meta 0 loot, and pre-tyranis battleship pinata drops). **** yeah, hulks need that boost to have less then a fraction of a percent of a decimal for structure.
Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-05-25 05:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Trollin
it would hardly be invincible, its a slight buffer

if anything got you into hull your probably dead anyways as active hull tanking is fail

60hp/24sec on the med hull rep II

def not something you would tank a belt spawn by running, even with a dcu II on

We are our own worst enemy.
Eva Lawson
#39 - 2012-05-25 08:14:12 UTC
successfultroll.swf

Every time, OP.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#40 - 2012-05-25 11:56:08 UTC
In my opinion all mining vessels deserve to be stronger - so that people can actually defend them in lowsec and nullsec... On the other hand empire rats should also be much stronger because they are not supposed to be safe.

10x structure is not a bad idea, however it's a little steep in my opinion... But certainly these ships will die if under attack anyway and a Tornado should be able to 1-volley even the T2 variant if they have a damage control but no other tank.

Pinky