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Skill Discussions

 
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Skill stacking method
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Mark Androcius
#1 - 2012-05-24 21:39:36 UTC
How are the skill bonuses calculated in EVE?
For example, the shield management skill:

It gives you 5% more shield HP per level.
Now is that for example 8000 base shield *1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 10210 shield HP at level 5 ?
Or is it a total of 25% extra shield, meaning 8000 * 1.25 = 10000 shield HP at level 5 ?

Does this work the same with every skill as well?

Cheers,

Mark

https://androcius.wordpress.com
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2 - 2012-05-24 22:04:43 UTC
For most skills, you add the levels together for each skill to get the bonus from that one skill, and then multiply the different skills together to get the total bonus.

Iow, a lvl IV skill with a +5%/level bonus and a lvl V skill with a +10%/level bonus will give you a (1 + 0.05×4) × (1 + 0.10×5) = 80% bonus.

There are a couple that break this mould and simply add their levels together, but they will clearly say so. The most famous exampled (which has since been removed) were the old division connection skills.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2012-05-25 00:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
As for stacking, it's always multiplicative now as Tippia described. And then there is the effect stacking penalty (doesn't apply to skills or implants): http://eve.battleclinic.com/guide/9196-Aenigma-s-Stacking-Penalty-Guide.html
Skip to chapter 3.


I think the oddest skill in EVE is Margin Trading. It is the only exponential skill, though it doesn't stack with anything.

Margin Trading: Escrow amount = (1 - 25%) ^ margin_trading_skill_level
Mark Androcius
#4 - 2012-05-25 06:49:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Iow, a lvl IV skill with a +5%/level bonus and a lvl V skill with a +10%/level bonus will give you a (1 + 0.05×4) × (1 + 0.10×5) = 80% bonus.


Shouldn't that be 1 + (0.05 * 4) * 1 + (0.10 * 5) ?


Thanks for the info guys :)

https://androcius.wordpress.com
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#5 - 2012-05-25 07:10:33 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Iow, a lvl IV skill with a +5%/level bonus and a lvl V skill with a +10%/level bonus will give you a (1 + 0.05×4) × (1 + 0.10×5) = 80% bonus.


Shouldn't that be 1 + (0.05 * 4) * 1 + (0.10 * 5) ?



Nope. Your equation:

1 + (0.05 * 4) * 1 + (0.10 * 5)
1 + 0.2 * 1 + 0.5
1 + 0.2 + 0.5
1.7

Tippia's equation:

(1 + 0.05×4) × (1 + 0.10×5)
(1 + 0.2) * (1 + 0.5)
1.2 * 1.5
1.8

In mathematics there are very specific rules in which order certain types of calculations are done and how that order can be changed using parenthesis.

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Mark Androcius
#6 - 2012-05-25 09:00:07 UTC
Sable Moran wrote:
Mark Androcius wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Iow, a lvl IV skill with a +5%/level bonus and a lvl V skill with a +10%/level bonus will give you a (1 + 0.05×4) × (1 + 0.10×5) = 80% bonus.


Shouldn't that be 1 + (0.05 * 4) * 1 + (0.10 * 5) ?



Nope. Your equation:

1 + (0.05 * 4) * 1 + (0.10 * 5)
1 + 0.2 * 1 + 0.5
1 + 0.2 + 0.5
1.7

Tippia's equation:

(1 + 0.05×4) × (1 + 0.10×5)
(1 + 0.2) * (1 + 0.5)
1.2 * 1.5
1.8

In mathematics there are very specific rules in which order certain types of calculations are done and how that order can be changed using parenthesis.


I am a programmer you know, i know maths :P

But both situations can be used, i just thought 1 + (0.05 * 4) * 1 + (0.10 * 5) was more like i would do it ( meaning if i was the programmer in this case ).

https://androcius.wordpress.com
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2012-05-25 09:24:25 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:
But both situations can be used, i just thought 1 + (0.05 * 4) * 1 + (0.10 * 5) was more like i would do it ( meaning if i was the programmer in this case ).
…but then you wouldn't be calculating percentages. You'd get the bonuses all wrong.

+n% ≡ ×(1 + n/100) — that's the fundamental maths for addition of separate percentages.

The n here is the bonus for any one given skill, and the level of the skill decides how high that single bonus is, so n = [level bonus] × [level]. Once you start having multiple bonuses from multiple skills, you add those together with the above formula.

5% per level @ lvl IV → n = 5×4 = 20.
10% per level @ lvl V → n = 10×5 = 50.

+20% +50% ≡ ×(1 + 20/100) ×(1 + 50/100).

Or, if you like, ×(1 + 0.05×4) × (1 + 0.1×5).



…also, that is why +25% isn't the opposite of -25%, which is a horribly common error to see…

+25% -25% ≡ ×(1 + 25/100) ×(1 - 25/100) = ×1.25 ×0.75 = ×0.9375, rather than the ×1 many people expect.

And don't get me started on media claiming that something has “decreased by 3000%” Evil
Prekaz
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#8 - 2012-05-25 16:26:53 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:

I am a programmer you know, i know maths :P

But both situations can be used, i just thought 1 + (0.05 * 4) * 1 + (0.10 * 5) was more like i would do it ( meaning if i was the programmer in this case ).


Then your program would produce the wrong result. Roll
Mark Androcius
#9 - 2012-05-26 14:12:51 UTC
Prekaz wrote:
Mark Androcius wrote:

I am a programmer you know, i know maths :P

But both situations can be used, i just thought 1 + (0.05 * 4) * 1 + (0.10 * 5) was more like i would do it ( meaning if i was the programmer in this case ).


Then your program would produce the wrong result. Roll


A different result, not the wrong one.

https://androcius.wordpress.com
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2012-05-26 16:46:49 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:
A different result, not the wrong one.
No, actually the wrong one. What you're describing isn't addition of percent.