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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Neddy Fox
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#1 - 2012-05-24 21:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Neddy Fox
As an objective outsider, I see some major issues / loopholes with what happened.

The DEV thread was locked, but we as players should be able to discuss and form a well thought response / ruleset for next year.

====

-I've been working my ass off in a WH for the last 3 months, setting up a pos, inporting modules, collapsing wormholes, scanning, bringing more indies etc etc.
-Training in a WH is essential to lower the amount of possible spies.
-CCP makes it impossible to use a pos that IS NOT YOUR CORPS' POS.
-This resulted in me getting a lot of alliance dudes into Firestar, to be able to use SMA, CHA etc.

-4th and CVA decided to train against each other, testing setups. We would dicsuss failures, wins, errors made etc, but in the end we would never make a deal, just train together.
-We discussed forming 1 (ONE) corporation to make these training in wormholes possible; if we wouldnt merge, 4th would have been forced to spend days and days to setup their own pos, to do this.

======
Question :

-Should alliances be allowed to train together somewhere ? If "somewhere" means "everywhere" , and CCP makes it impossible to use an alien SMA/CHA, should these players be allowed to join 1 corp ?

THIS ^^ is the ONLY reason Hydra and Outbreak where banned; they formed 1 corp to ease the access to a POS in a WH. They clearly knew the rules, even petitioned it.
======

Discuss ?
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#2 - 2012-05-24 21:36:46 UTC
CVA standing up for hydra reloaded makes me feel all fuzzy inside

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Intigo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-05-24 21:37:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Intigo
I am fairly certain any attempt at further discussing this will be locked since Garmon posted proof of multiple attempts at clarification (all ignored) and the GM response (which was "invalidated", of course).

You bring up some good points and I would love to discuss it if this thread is still open 30 minutes from now. It would be interesting to know if any alliances practicing and communicating together were acting against the rules or if it was only illegal to do so if you joined the same corp (on the test server).

I hope you get to do well in the tournament with CVA - you guys were always great fun to either fight against or with in our various Providence endeavors.

hydra provail
Officer Nyota Uhura
#4 - 2012-05-24 21:50:28 UTC
Last year two teams made a mockery of the whole tournament. I call this ban well deserved. Good riddance.
Noir Avlaa
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-05-24 21:55:21 UTC
Officer Nyota Uhura wrote:
Last year two teams made a mockery of the whole tournament. I call this ban well deserved. Good riddance.


You're an idiot. Last year 2 teams worked harder than the other teams, by helping each other, then when they both got to the finals they gave everyone a bad show. They still operated within the rules and out played everyone else. There was nothing stopping anyone else doing the same, the other alliances just didn't.

If anything, this gave EVE a lot more publicity and interesting stories of the amount of effort, politics and consequential effects things like this have on the EVE universe, instead of "Alliance X wins tournament, everyone forgets 2 months later".

Whoever wins this year will (and should) feel cheated out of a proper victory knowing that they didn't face 2 of the best small gang alliances in the game who won last year.
Richard Stallmanu Stallmania
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-05-24 22:08:26 UTC
I especially love the part where they were given GM approval, but all of a sudden that GM's statement gets brushed under the carpet and they are banned either way.

CCP claims that statement "means nothing", when in fact, it means everything. If HYDRA was told "no dont do that it will get you banned" instead of "go ahead!!!!", they would have not done what they were banned for.


Its like a speed sign saying 65 Km/h, but you get pulled over and the cop goes and draws a 5 over the 6 to justify his decision.

Sven Hammerstorm
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-05-24 22:14:54 UTC
The real question is why the rule was applied in two different ways to different alliances. Why is PL still in? Blatant CCP favoritism. Bye bye goons, its PL time now!
sophiaeu
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-05-24 22:15:17 UTC
Noir Avlaa wrote:
Officer Nyota Uhura wrote:
Last year two teams made a mockery of the whole tournament. I call this ban well deserved. Good riddance.


You're an idiot. Last year 2 teams worked harder than the other teams, by helping each other, then when they both got to the finals they gave everyone a bad show. They still operated within the rules and out played everyone else. There was nothing stopping anyone else doing the same, the other alliances just didn't.

If anything, this gave EVE a lot more publicity and interesting stories of the amount of effort, politics and consequential effects things like this have on the EVE universe, instead of "Alliance X wins tournament, everyone forgets 2 months later".

Whoever wins this year will (and should) feel cheated out of a proper victory knowing that they didn't face 2 of the best small gang alliances in the game who won last year.


A BLOO BLOO BLOO , they were correctly removed for trying to make a joke of the tournament for a second year running, deal with it.
Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#9 - 2012-05-24 22:17:24 UTC
Noir Avlaa wrote:

Whoever wins this year will (and should) feel cheated out of a proper victory knowing that they didn't face 2 of the best small gang alliances in the game who won last year.


Yes, it's a pity CCP wants ATX victory to mean nothing. And yes, the way they conducted this reeks of zero professionalism, and a hefty grudge. So be it.

(Though I'm away for most of july so CCP already owned my personal AT prior to this)
Contorted
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-05-24 22:17:58 UTC
Hydra and Outbreak are claiming in these Petitions and Emails that their Intentions are nothing else but to practice against each other and to act as true independent entities. Good thing that their actions speak a totally different language. Ban well deserved.

(FREE WAFFLES!)
Noir Avlaa
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-05-24 22:21:27 UTC
sophiaeu wrote:
Noir Avlaa wrote:
Officer Nyota Uhura wrote:
Last year two teams made a mockery of the whole tournament. I call this ban well deserved. Good riddance.


You're an idiot. Last year 2 teams worked harder than the other teams, by helping each other, then when they both got to the finals they gave everyone a bad show. They still operated within the rules and out played everyone else. There was nothing stopping anyone else doing the same, the other alliances just didn't.

If anything, this gave EVE a lot more publicity and interesting stories of the amount of effort, politics and consequential effects things like this have on the EVE universe, instead of "Alliance X wins tournament, everyone forgets 2 months later".

Whoever wins this year will (and should) feel cheated out of a proper victory knowing that they didn't face 2 of the best small gang alliances in the game who won last year.


A BLOO BLOO BLOO , they were correctly removed for trying to make a joke of the tournament for a second year running, deal with it.


I see nowhere in the rules that is an offence to make a joke of the tournament, if you have the skill to do so.
ScoRpS
Moist Wanted.
OnlyFleets.
#12 - 2012-05-24 23:08:01 UTC
This feels absolutley awful.

Wether or not its fair is a huge topic and folks are raging left right and centre at the moment in corp, but in time it will be forgotten. My real dissapointment is at how un-professionaly we were dealt with. It was nothing short of a suprise public flogging.

I feel that the Alliance Tournament Team should have waited until it was clear we were working together during the competition rather then banning us over how we decided to practice before the event even began. I have never heard of anyone getting banned from an event over how they trained for it.

It feels more vindictive then anything else but alas we still have great game that is brilliant to play and good luck to all the teams still involved. Just dont screw up the finals!

I guess we will try again next year.
Officer Nyota Uhura
#13 - 2012-05-25 06:19:12 UTC
Noir Avlaa wrote:
You're an idiot.

Well, you, sir, obviously are a genius.

Now, you remember the upset of the audience last year when these l33t alliances decided to poop on all the viewers who had really loved the tournament up to the end match? It was already considered the best AT ever. CCP felt that this great event will help to lessen the outrage and bad publicity of that year. But then these elite players come and ruin the whole thing and create even more bad blood about what was supposed to be good fights.

You can shove "operated within the rules" up your exhaust pipe. AT is about great fights and if two teams want to stop the good fights ... enjoy your ban.

ScoRpS wrote:
This feels absolutley awful.

Well it's a good balance from last year's feeling all smug and great about ruining the tournament. Yeah, I heard you after the matches.
Vilan Turrik
The Arctic Factory
#14 - 2012-05-25 06:26:34 UTC
ScoRpS wrote:
My real dissapointment is at how un-professionaly we were dealt with. It was nothing short of a suprise public flogging.


To be fair, you certainly earned it.
Shaampoo
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-05-25 06:39:29 UTC
Neddy Fox wrote:
As an objective outsider, I see some major issues / loopholes with what happened.

The DEV thread was locked, but we as players should be able to discuss and form a well thought response / ruleset for next year.

====

-I've been working my ass off in a WH for the last 3 months, setting up a pos, inporting modules, collapsing wormholes, scanning, bringing more indies etc etc.
-Training in a WH is essential to lower the amount of possible spies.
-CCP makes it impossible to use a pos that IS NOT YOUR CORPS' POS.
-This resulted in me getting a lot of alliance dudes into Firestar, to be able to use SMA, CHA etc.

-4th and CVA decided to train against each other, testing setups. We would dicsuss failures, wins, errors made etc, but in the end we would never make a deal, just train together.
-We discussed forming 1 (ONE) corporation to make these training in wormholes possible; if we wouldnt merge, 4th would have been forced to spend days and days to setup their own pos, to do this.

======
Question :

-Should alliances be allowed to train together somewhere ? If "somewhere" means "everywhere" , and CCP makes it impossible to use an alien SMA/CHA, should these players be allowed to join 1 corp ?

THIS ^^ is the ONLY reason Hydra and Outbreak where banned; they formed 1 corp to ease the access to a POS in a WH. They clearly knew the rules, even petitioned it.
======

Discuss ?
TBH Hyrda and outbreak Screwed every one last year.

and this year CCP took steps against it

I am happy and i think Hydra should have a break for a year at least to stop the screwing. It is a great example for CCP to set

My two cents
Noir Avlaa
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-05-25 06:43:17 UTC
Officer Nyota Uhura wrote:

You can shove "operated within the rules" up your exhaust pipe. AT is about great fights and if two teams want to stop the good fights ... enjoy your ban.


No. AT is about showing the other Alliances that you're better at small gang PvP and winning a tournament than them, which Hydra/Outbreak did. Remember the Hydra ransom? That was also allowed and no bannings took place, even though it wasn't :goodfights:

If you honestly think AT is only there to broadcast good fights between alliances then you've missed the point of EVE. Should any alliances that have spy alts in other alliances just so they can see setups being used be banned? Because that's getting in the way of e-bushido :goodfights:
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#17 - 2012-05-25 07:01:46 UTC
Vilan Turrik wrote:
ScoRpS wrote:
My real dissapointment is at how un-professionaly we were dealt with. It was nothing short of a suprise public flogging.


To be fair, you certainly earned it.


Just like you're earning that ECM bonused Eagle

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Neddy Fox
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#18 - 2012-05-25 07:19:23 UTC
Sad no one seems to actually try to answer the question, and troll with "good for them being banned".

Question remains : Should smaller alliances be able to train together without a ban next year ? As stated by CCP, they will DURING THE MATCH also see if things go fair; Hydra/OB knew the rules and I honestly assume they wouldn't setup the final match like they did last year.

But this thread isn't about last year, finals or w/e : it's about being able to train together, since we planned to do the same !!
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#19 - 2012-05-25 11:36:45 UTC
This kind of bullcrap makes more of a mockery of the AT then any action from any playergroup.

How typical and also convenient to first approve something and then disapprove so you have something to work with to give the bans.
Not the first time CCP adjusted rules in favour of certain other parties.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#20 - 2012-05-25 11:40:52 UTC
they should get a permanent ban in AT IMO,
for ******* up the entire AT 9.

right decision to remove them both from the competition.
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