EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

Yes, they always want me to do weird things without any explanation and then shout at me when I fly outside the arena to get away from them! Creeps.

First, let me start by saying I respect what you guys do. You are serious no bullshit PVPers who crush the vast majority of people who wander across your path. The help that you've(Genos) offered to the community interested in PVP is commendable despite what happened at the end of EIE.

All that aside, let's not beat around the bush here. The no B team rule may has well have read, "Hydra and 0utbreak can't s*** up ATX again by rigging the final." Why in the holy name of F*** you guys decided to not only practice with each other in the test server, but potentially be seen as actively thumbing your nose at CCP by joining the same corp to do it absolutely boggles my mind. How did it never cross your minds to actively stay away from each other in build up to ATX?? I understand that you're pals and you respect each other, blah blah blah. You MUST have realized the rule was made SPECIFICALLY targeting your two alliances. IMHO, sniggardly just got caught in the crossfire, and had they not been announcing the news of your ban, snig may not have caught one at all. And, let's be honest, PL was never going to get hit with a ban here (it also helps when your ceo is chairman of CSM).

GMs have been hilariously wrong in the past and CCP devs DO. NOT. ABIDE. BY. GM. RULINGS. EVER (see AHARM v RnK). I just do not understand the thought process to make you guys think that you would be totally golden not even TRYING to maintain a semblance of separate alliances in the build up to the tournament. I understand that it sucks. The tournament will not be the same without both alliances. It will lose some of it's luster. I hope that you guys come back to ATXI with a vengance. But you have to realize that this is completely on your head. CCP said here's the line. Not only did you guys say, "cool, we'll stay WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY the f*** away from the line", you started playing f'ing jump-rope with it.

CCP you want make qualitatively best tournament but,
you will look stupid as company, and gaming magazines will tell the story, after this what you doing this year, many ppl will make sure no1 will forget it next year, and year after, and year after, and so on.
If you CCP want make serious ingame tournament, use only EULA rules, like no account sharing, no exploiting, why dont you care about other teams, with big alliances as their backup, there is several alliances cooperating, and FOR SURE they will share rewards. You are upset about last year final? Get used to, this year some1 else will trick you badly, and this is what i wish to CCP AT X Team.

Who actually uses corp chat and corp fittings?

You can see in any genos video that instead of corp chat, they have a channel for genos members + alts, just like nearly every other corp in the game.

You called CCP on their bluff.

Too bad CCP wasn't bluffing.

Other then faffy ( who seems to be on a whole new level of seriouse/ rage )

I dont think you could look at any hydra/ 0utbreak player in the eyes with all the testing/ work we did do, have done this year, and say we dont take it seriously?

seriously,

We ask you can we test together as long as we play fair in the tourney.. you say yes (Senior GM) . we took it so seriously we asked multiple times... had you said no .. then we would not have.

As far as I can see sreegs/soundwave have a very personal grudge against us, (and of course faffy)

eg : " I'm sorry you disagree but we're also not going to bend on this issue. If you have to blame someone I'd recommend the people in the finals last year."

I was one of the people asking well before this happened if the congor lines/ cash for win fights could be delt with, you never said anything other then this is eve, so to go for a win you have to out play this tactic (eg wild boars co2) or at least be ready to deel with it.

If not last year than soon a final/ semi would have gone the same way, 0utbreak/ hydra are not big we do need something to test on.

We dont have the player bace of darkside and nothing like the hords goonies ect can choose from, what we do have though is allot of years playing this game fighting tooth and nail where most would not even think you could kill something., instead of embracing this side of eve, most of this kind of corperation has been killed off from many little things that help the big allaince,

So tonight you are also driving a pointy stick though the heart of two entities that have given more then most on inspiring others to go get the very best the game has to offer ( bar fubar final ).

If anyone is any reel doubt its very easy to see just how seperate hydra/0utbreak are by going through our kb, we met over a mutial love of fighting the hard fight.

there are not many such corpse left, and eve is a weeker game withought them. had either one of us failed to PL, Darkside it would be someone else another year you would put the blame on rather then manning up and stopping the many thrown matches long ago.

So conratulations on another tournament event, I hope as I have always hoped for fun exciting fights

Everyone I know in 0B was very prepared to fight hydra and maybe even pod them :) but you did a very good job at getting your way with the Senior GM trick, I salute you for such deviouseness, its quite easy to see with the spittle coming from sreegs just how badly you wanted to ban us.

It is far better to go out like this then to be beaten by faffy/ shadoo

love and kisses to all picked, and soon to be auctioned in,

sorry to pyro / zara for posting but I too feel this may be the last thing I have left to say/play. I would have loved to taken part this year as its the last thing on my to do list in eve ( other than leaving corp so I can kill 0utbreak memebrs and pod them).

over and out, and rounderbout

Swin the paw ,
( thanks for all the happy memories to all we have fought )

Perhaps with the controversy surrounding this event it is best to go ahead and suspend further official tournaments until a full set of rules taking into account most potential loopholes are in place.

Ok so after reading how mad all you guys are I do believe it might be time for a small reality check.

Here are the facts:

- Last year you guys pretty much ruined the final for anyone who had any interest in the AT. From the people behind the screens at CCP to any player watching for their enjoyment. But what happened was totally legal according to rules for that tournament and because you guys played it out so well, most of the other big contenders tipped their hats to you guys cause you out staged the rest.

- This year CCP announces a new rule specifically aimed at avoiding what you guys did last year in the final. And I've seen countless posts (the mails and petions also confirm this) stating that you guys knew very well that you couldn't repeat last year’s final.

This was your reaction (in my opinion):

- Hmmmm I guess we shouldn't stage another game like we did last year. But since both the alliances aren't big enough to come up with the 24 right players for testing we will test against each other. Not a bad idea to be honest but with the new anti colluding rule there was a realization that you might have to be careful with how to do this (the mails and petions confirm this). Now instead of taking it careful (a.k.a. let's not do it until we have confirmation that we are allowed to) you guys took the approach of: "Hey let's do it anyway cause no one told us we couldn't eventho there is a vague rule that is aimed at something we did last year". Not the best of ideas imho. On top of taking (in my opinion) the wrong approach to something that is vague you guys then went and did something sketchy that you didn't tell CCP about in your mails (the joining of both alliances in 1 corp). And for what? So you didn't have to setup another POS? The same amount of ships and modules had to be brought in through the same WH that you could probe out together. The only difference is that there would have to be 2 POSes setup and that if you only bring in 1 ship with hulls, you will have to eject from that ship so that someone from the other alliance can hop in it and unload it in their POS.

Now for all the readers out there that think I'm only of this opinion cause I'm in PL and we didn't get banned (a.k.a. mad pubbies). I would like to refer to what I wrote above this part and see the logic in it. But once more I'll attempt to explain the difference between the communication between PL+Waffles and CCP and Hydra+0utbreak and CCP. All the information disclosed to CCP from the PL side was backed up by the actions of both teams. We never overstepped or did anything more than the things we specified in the mails. Reading the communication between Hydra+0utbreak and CCP everyone can see that they did more than disclosed in these mails (once again the merging into 1 corp) and therefore created reasonable doubt that once again they might be up to something.

Now to finish this wall of text my opinion is that you only have yourself to blame since you took the wrong approach to an unclear and potentially disastrous situation. And the fact that you now feel the urge to quit playing only illustrates the fact that if something is that important to you, you should think twice before deciding on a dangerous approach.

Sorry for the wall of text death....

it sucks for hydra and outbreak to get bumped out. it's a lot of work to do what they did. what happened in the finals last year was a disappointment, and it's natural for CCP to make steps ensure that it doesn't happen again. i wouldn't be surprised though if hydra and outbreak approached CCP with a way to sort this out in an acceptable way. both teams would have to immediately differentiate. blah blah. no shenanigans.

also, both hydra and outbreak should differentiate just for the challenge. tourney or no tourney,everyone knows that these groups as the elite of the elite pvpers. prove to us, CCP, yourselves, that you guys are the best. i don't see how you guys could show that by repeating what you guys did last year....

That is... a lot of emails that you seem to be getting no reply on. Perhaps you should double check where you're sending them and that it is in fact an email address CCP actually reads. That said, I personally would not be comfortable basing how I handled such things based on a petition response as I'd have no real guarantee that even a senior GM had actually talked to the people running the tournament. Asking your questions on the forums about where CCP was drawing the line, and then bugging them through email, twitter, the CSM, and any other avenues you could think of until you got a response would have more or less guaranteed it was actually from the people organizing the tournament and left CCP with less room to potentially exclude you if you were in fact doing things differently this time around. I'm not quite sure why they're excluding both of your teams under that rule, though I could see them claiming difficulty declaring one of you the primary team.


Metagaming between 2 teams seriously trying to win would usually only result in knowing their setup or on very rare occasions a spy openly betraying a team in the tournament arena. Throwing a game by picking a deliberately bad setup (or a setup that can be effectively hard countered and then telling the other team what you're bringing) isn't exactly very interesting to watch, but is hard to actually detect if not too blatant. Going out into the tournament arena and refusing to compete goes above and beyond metagaming, though I don't believe it's been specifically banned in the past (and perhaps not now). A team immediately turning and flying out of the arena as a group would clearly raise the question for CCP whether they wanted to have that team participate in future tournaments, and about the only difference between that and the AT9 final is that the AT9 final was 12 minutes long and far more boring. EVE metagaming is not usually about meaningless actions (they were clearly colluding enough to have agreed to split the prizes however they wanted regardless of outcome, so no real need to fix the match itself), and metagaming at CCP's expense usually doesn't turn out well.

All that said, none of this makes how CCP handled this any clearer with regards to where exactly the lines they don't want crossed are, though if it was partially based on something like CCP believing due to server-side evidence that there were people that had characters on both teams I'm not sure how free they'd be to express that. On the other hand, if this decision was at all based on the events of AT9 as opposed to the rule being in response to that and this being an independent enforcement of the rules, I'd be much more comfortable if CCP would come out and state that.