EVE General Discussion

So it's true.

"EvE is a sandbox" they preach.


but then they force people to play their way or the highway.

The gist of your post is that you're questioning whether CCP has made an announcement that it didn't do any mass bot-bannings during the intervening week before the comparison weeks. Occasionally CCP will make an announcement that it's performed a mass bot-banning, but I can't think of any occasion when it announced "we didn't do a mass bot-banning this week." So it's a silly question from that perspective. Instead, you would be looking for evidence that CCP did perform a mass ban during that week, correct? The burden of proof is squarely on you to support your alternate explanation for the near 50% decline in highsec mining that coincided with Hulkageddon.

Here's some suggestions for you as you go about trying to prove that there was a mass bot-banning during that week:

1. Did CCP announce a mass bot-banning?
2. Did the botter/uncensored forums light up with activity complaining about bans?
3. Was there any anecdotal evidence indicating bot banning?

The answer to all three of these, so far, is a resounding "no." The only thing that happened during the relevant period was Burn Jita and Hulkageddon. Unless you're being willfully ignorant or dishonest, the explanation for the near 50% decline in highsec mining is painfully obvious.

I trust that we are on the same page now?

This, too, was addressed in the OP, which I invite you to read.

Next time please save your gratuitous insults for after you have finished reading/comprehending the OP. Otherwise it looks like instead of asking honest questions, you're just trolling on behalf of carebears and MD pseudointellectuals.

Unless of course you were just signing your post that way.

Its not a sandbox cause there are right ways to play it and wrong ones. And NPC seeds Buy Orders etc
CCP should really remove that from the description. Its too misleading for ppl.



No.. the lie was Goons saying they wanna destroy your game not THE game. At least you all are admitting it now.

PVP doesnt have to be voluntary, or fair..

technically miners are not pilots.

I'm dissapointed in you ofa ll people for once. That's the silliest statement I've read all day.

And damage to regular players abilities as well. NOT a solution here at all.

Your making this easier than ganking a botting hulk, of which I've killed (for sure, pods kept warping back to the belt...) four.
*YOU* are the OP, YOU made the assertions, assumptions and presented your conclusions. The burden of proof is on *YOU*.
You have no proof, because you had no facts. I did *not* start the thread - burden of proof is not on me and I called *your* conclusions into doubt, because your proofs were vaporware...



A) That is a report of new *ICE* mining bots...
B) The report is limited to two or three factual (as much as anything not from CCP) posts, and the rest discussing it or trolling it - so your conclusion that "the mining of ore in hi-sec did *NOT* decline do to a drop in botting" is totally, completely made up.
C) Your "Dedicated Bot Watchers" don't seem to be talking about the same subject you were...
D) You also make the declarative statement that "there was *no* mass-banning of bots by CCP - again, burden of proof is on *you* to back up your assertion with fact. The fact is, you *can't*.
E) you then try to conflate Ice mining bots, with Ore mining bots (which I will readily agree - not much difference) but again, you have *zero* proof...


This assumption is totally bereft of *any* supporting proof, it is just your "Fox News" spin on something you have no concrete proof of...

Welcome to modern journalism...

I was asking honest questions. I am still asking honest questions (i.e. prove your assertions) and I still think your a dolt...

p.s. - After four years in game, I really don't give a dam about the carebears (other than as paying subscribers for CCP or as targets for me) or MD discussions. I stay out of Market Discus because I know I don't know enough about the topics at hand to contribute anything worthwhile. I'm here, on the other hand, to call out your BS...

Nice try.

Highsec mining declined by nearly 50% after Hulkageddon began. You are claiming that the massive drop in highsec mining was a result of a massive bot-ban during the week before Hulkageddon. The burden of proof to establish this phantom bot-banning is, as I said, on you.

So far, you have provided a lot of whining, but no evidence whatsoever. You have failed to even begin to meet your burden of proof.

If you are not claiming that the massive drop in highsec mining after Hulkageddon began was due to bot-banning, then your entire series of posts is moot. In which case I invite you to contribute something meaningful to the thread.

Once again, you have entirely misinterpreted the situation.

Since CCP does not announce "we did not perform a massive bot ban this week," the question of whether a bot ban occurred must be presented in an alternate fashion, otherwise you are asking me to prove a negative--even though the burden of proof rests on your shoulders.

Once again, here's how you can provide evidence to support your bot-banning theory:

1. An announcement by CCP that they performed a mass bot-ban during the week in question.
2. Evidence from botting/uncensored forums that people lost their bots.
3. Anecdotal evidence of bot-banning.

Note that I'm being generous by allowing you to include #3. But you haven't even supplied anything from that category.

So I'll challenge you a second time: Provide some proof that a mass bot ban occurred during the week in question, or concede to common sense.

As for my common-sense position, it's informed by the absence of any evidence of bot-banning. Even on the permissive category #3, anecdotal evidence suggests a visible bot presence. (The fact that bots mine ice is, as you say, an irrelevant distinction.) Absent an official announcement from CCP that says "we didn't do a massive bot-ban that week," that's all the evidence you can get that a bot-ban didn't occur--it's a dog that didn't bark--no announcement, no evidence from botters, and no anecdotal bot banning evidence.

To ask for more than that--particularly when there is no evidence to suggest otherwise--indicates you are either willfully ignorant, or you are being intellectually dishonest.

Let me be clear. You can't hide behind statements like "the burden of proof is on you" when all possible proof has already been provided you, and you can't rebut it.

Here, unfortunately, you show your inability to comprehend basic math. I'll make it simple for you:

Total highsec mining dropped by 45.53%. I claimed that a majority (i.e. greater than 50%) of the human mining in highsec dropped. This assumes that the amount of highsec mining performed by bots is at least 9% (100 - [45.53 x 2] ).

9% is an extremely conservative estimate. If I had claimed 50% or 75% of mining was done by bots, you might have a point, since that would be speculative. But even if botters only account for 9% of mining, I am still correct in saying the majority of human mining stopped, since the drop was at least 50% of the remainder--unless your phantom bot ban happened to occur right before Hulkageddon.

Of course, if you wish to make the absurd claim that botting is less than 9% of the total, you're free to provide some evidence, but I have a feeling you won't be able to deliver.

No, actually you're not. You're doing either of the following:

1. Making a ridiculous request for an announcement from CCP that they didn't perform a mass bot-ban during the week in question.
2. Being dishonest in a misguided effort to cheerlead for carebears.

Your opinions haven't proven to be of much worth so far.

I want to thank you all, there are so many delicous astroids for me to consume in high sec now this is awesome, and using an osprey is a refreshing change, i feel like i am back in 2004, naww to be young again,

The belts are almost as populated as they were back in 2004 with roids as well, very pretty to see a roid bigger than a watermelon