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Do implants improve skill training time dramatically?
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Sarpy Aranori
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-05-24 20:13:33 UTC
I had no idea how the whole attribute thing works, so I avoided implants all together until I just found out that they can help increase skill training time..

Do they decrease the time it takes a lot or just a little?
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-24 20:19:32 UTC
Sarpy Aranori wrote:
I had no idea how the whole attribute thing works, so I avoided implants all together until I just found out that they can help increase skill training time..

Do they decrease the time it takes a lot or just a little?


for short learning skills over a short time, not really. They really start to shine on the very long skills and over a longer period of time. Some skills that take months to learn can be reduced by a full week or so. Do enough skills like that and the time you save adds up.

Open up EVE Mon and check for yourself
Sarpy Aranori
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-05-24 20:27:58 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Sarpy Aranori wrote:
I had no idea how the whole attribute thing works, so I avoided implants all together until I just found out that they can help increase skill training time..

Do they decrease the time it takes a lot or just a little?


for short learning skills over a short time, not really. They really start to shine on the very long skills and over a longer period of time. Some skills that take months to learn can be reduced by a full week or so. Do enough skills like that and the time you save adds up.

Open up EVE Mon and check for yourself



Thanks for replying ^-^

Could implants reduce the training time of say..A four day skill to around one day?
Keno Skir
#4 - 2012-05-24 20:33:48 UTC
No mate i'm afraid not. Adding 5 points to perception and 3 to willpower (implants and remap) i lost 4 or 5 days off Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5. 29 days down to 24 is a really good reduction, but cutting 75% off a skill time is a bit much to expect.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#5 - 2012-05-24 20:37:23 UTC
Get yourself some +3's for a non-combat clone when you can and +4 when you can afford it.
While not dramatically they do help significantly.
Hoshi
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#6 - 2012-05-24 20:37:56 UTC
With default attributes +5 implants in both primary and secondary will increase training speed by 25%, with optimized attributes with 18.6%

"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#7 - 2012-05-24 21:02:22 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
No mate i'm afraid not. Adding 5 points to perception and 3 to willpower (implants and remap) i lost 4 or 5 days off Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5. 29 days down to 24 is a really good reduction, but cutting 75% off a skill time is a bit much to expect.

This.

My advice: don't bother with implants if you intend to PvP. Skill points aren't super-relevant there, and the implants are not worth the added stress to not get podded , particularly when are learning how to PvP in cheap frigates.

Otherwise, if you have a training clone for long absences, or plan to never be shot at by anything that would pod you, definitely go for learning implants.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2012-05-24 21:10:02 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
No mate i'm afraid not. Adding 5 points to perception and 3 to willpower (implants and remap) i lost 4 or 5 days off Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5. 29 days down to 24 is a really good reduction, but cutting 75% off a skill time is a bit much to expect.

This.

My advice: don't bother with implants if you intend to PvP. Skill points aren't super-relevant there, and the implants are not worth the added stress to not get podded , particularly when are learning how to PvP in cheap frigates.

Otherwise, if you have a training clone for long absences, or plan to never be shot at by anything that would pod you, definitely go for learning implants.


This is good advice, though it depends a bit on how much ISK you have to throw around. Personally, I run with a full set of +4s in highsec (I could get 5s, but the extra 400M just doesn't seem worth it to me). For PvP, I run with a pair of +3s in whatever I'm currently training, since I wouldn't really notice the 20M loss if I lose a pair of +3s.

So, use whatever ones you can afford to lose and shrug off the loss of. implants do cut down on training time, but you don't want to be financially crippled by the loss of them either, especially if you're PvPing.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#9 - 2012-05-25 03:18:15 UTC
Other small tip if you like to PvP:

Get jumpclones. Slap on one clone perception and willpower implants only and on another memory and intelligence.

Now when you train ship or gunnery skills which require perc and will you hop to that clone. If you get podded you lose only 2 implants instead of 4.
Same when you train engineering or mechanic skills which require int and mem.

You can even set up several clones for various trainingstyles so you can maximise you training that way while keeping losses low incase of a podkill.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-05-25 03:41:07 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Other small tip if you like to PvP:

Get jumpclones. Slap on one clone perception and willpower implants only and on another memory and intelligence.

Now when you train ship or gunnery skills which require perc and will you hop to that clone. If you get podded you lose only 2 implants instead of 4.
Same when you train engineering or mechanic skills which require int and mem.

You can even set up several clones for various trainingstyles so you can maximise you training that way while keeping losses low incase of a podkill.


You also need some combat thingy enhancing implants. they'll make the difference between ganker and gankee

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#11 - 2012-05-25 04:47:34 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


You also need some combat thingy enhancing implants. they'll make the difference between ganker and gankee


What Plunderbunny means is hardwires.
Those are nice but at the first stages where you lose a lot easier and get podkilled easier due to not knowing all mechanics yet they are just extra cost.
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-05-25 05:07:30 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
No mate i'm afraid not. Adding 5 points to perception and 3 to willpower (implants and remap) i lost 4 or 5 days off Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5. 29 days down to 24 is a really good reduction, but cutting 75% off a skill time is a bit much to expect.

This.

My advice: don't bother with implants if you intend to PvP. Skill points aren't super-relevant there, and the implants are not worth the added stress to not get podded , particularly when are learning how to PvP in cheap frigates.

Otherwise, if you have a training clone for long absences, or plan to never be shot at by anything that would pod you, definitely go for learning implants.

Bad advice:
If you're pvping a lot, make sure you have a focused skill plan and plug in the 2 +3s for the skill you are currently training. You don't lose your pod as often as you think and if you do, not having a head full of them, 3 of which you don't use helps ease on the wallet.
Keno Skir
#13 - 2012-05-25 06:03:16 UTC
Sjugar wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
No mate i'm afraid not. Adding 5 points to perception and 3 to willpower (implants and remap) i lost 4 or 5 days off Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5. 29 days down to 24 is a really good reduction, but cutting 75% off a skill time is a bit much to expect.

This.

My advice: don't bother with implants if you intend to PvP. Skill points aren't super-relevant there, and the implants are not worth the added stress to not get podded , particularly when are learning how to PvP in cheap frigates.

Otherwise, if you have a training clone for long absences, or plan to never be shot at by anything that would pod you, definitely go for learning implants.

Bad advice:
If you're pvping a lot, make sure you have a focused skill plan and plug in the 2 +3s for the skill you are currently training. You don't lose your pod as often as you think and if you do, not having a head full of them, 3 of which you don't use helps ease on the wallet.


20 Million isk (cost of +3's) every time you get podded is a stupid idea for a new player, and if you are pvping a LOT you will be podded semi-regularly. Once you have the experience to replace +3's easily, chances are you are only then training skills long enough for them to make a major difference anyway :P

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Erudius
#14 - 2012-05-25 07:44:34 UTC
Get +3 Implants as fast as you can

Get +4 Implants when you can afford them

Get +5 Implants when you have isk to burn

...regardless, +3 at a minimum will SAVE you lots of time in the long run!!!

http://youtu.be/PY8fjFKAC5k
Lewis L Vella
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-05-25 11:33:43 UTC
Just a tip from a fellow newbie, if you do decide to go implants don't just look on the market - if you run missions regularly from same station, or for same npc corp, you build up loyalty points. Check the LP store in the station you've been running missions from and you can, not always, get them cheaper than market - just stuck my first +3 in this way, just over 5mill if remember right.

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-05-25 12:15:18 UTC
Sarpy Aranori wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Sarpy Aranori wrote:
I had no idea how the whole attribute thing works, so I avoided implants all together until I just found out that they can help increase skill training time..

Do they decrease the time it takes a lot or just a little?


for short learning skills over a short time, not really. They really start to shine on the very long skills and over a longer period of time. Some skills that take months to learn can be reduced by a full week or so. Do enough skills like that and the time you save adds up.

Open up EVE Mon and check for yourself



Thanks for replying ^-^

Could implants reduce the training time of say..A four day skill to around one day?


No. But they might reduce 2 days from your 22 days queued skill.

The thing is that it all ADDS up. 2 days here, 10 hours there...it's a helluva lot of time per year.
Ryelek d'Entari
Horizon Glare
#17 - 2012-05-25 17:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryelek d'Entari
Simple math can tell you the answer you're looking for.

You start with a base 17 points in each of the 5 attributes. You then have 14 bonus points which you can (but shouldn't until you understand exactly what you're doing) reassign via Neural Remap (once/year), with a max of +10 to any one attribute. This means that your attributes have a base range of 17-27. Implants can add between +1 and +5.

Your skill points go up linearly based on your attributes. (X + Y/2) points per minute, where X is the skill's primary attribute and Y is the skill's secondary attribute.

Assuming you're using the initial neural map (20/20/20/20/19) and a non-charisma skill, both your primary and secondary attributes for your current skill in training will be 20, for a total skill point gain of (20 + 20/2) 30/min, or 1800/hour.

If you plug in +4 implants to both your primary and secondary, your skill point gain rate will increase to (24 + 24/2) 36/min or 2160/hour, which is a 20% increase. This means that each skill takes (1/1.2) 83% as long to train. So that 4 day (96 hour) skill will take 3 days 8 hours (80 hours) to complete.


Implants definitely help and add up in the long run, but so do neural remaps. Download Evemon and make a skill plan, you'll be glad you did.

To compare and contrast, the slowest possible skill point gain is with both attributes at base (17) and no implants, which results in 1530 skill points/hour. The fastest possible skill point gain is with your primary attribute at 27 and secondary attribute at 21, and two +5 implants, which results in 2730 skill points/hour, which is ~78% faster. However to do that you have to burn one of your precious neural remaps and plug in ~200M Isk of implants.

IMO At a minimum you should always have at least +1 implants in your head for any skill you'll be training in the reasonably near future. They're dirt cheap, particularly the charisma and perception +1 implants, which are rewards from the career agent missions. If you're missioning in highsec, absolutely buy +3's or +4's as soon as you can afford them, as your risk of losing them is very low and they're not that expensive. If doing more risky activities, +2's are still quite cheap, highly recommended.
Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-05-25 19:48:03 UTC
The long story short here is YES IMPLANTS ARE GOOD.

Any reduction in skill training time short or long means more skills trained over time.

I only dont use them or use them sparingly because I might get podded at any point and time and implants look bad on killmails.

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Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#19 - 2012-05-26 17:15:28 UTC
Sarpy Aranori wrote:
Could implants reduce the training time of say..A four day skill to around one day?


You won't get this big a decrease in training times on such a short training time, but for long skill plans over weeks or months you will see a significant decrease. Learning implants are a long term investment, so the cheaper implants, +2s and +3s are better for short term skill plans.

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