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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

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Author
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#561 - 2012-05-24 16:56:37 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Tippia wrote:

The Unified Inventory would be a very nice upgrade for corp and personal hangars, corp and personal assets, for the S&I interface, and maybe for bulk haulers such as freighters, since they will commonly be loaded down with containers. Unfortunately, it only does half of that and instead imposes itself on inventories where this kind of contraption is quite counter-productive and cumbersome.


1. Which brings up a good point. We need to be able to contract things into an item exchange contract from within a container.

2. Sadly, you can't put assembled containers into a freighter. Only courier packages (which are sort of like containers). It's something I wish they would fix / change.



This.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Callic Veratar
#562 - 2012-05-24 16:58:37 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
Ericdon wrote:
Oh cut the bullshit please, troll moar :P it sucks, everyone thinks that, but ofcourse there will be 1 person that wants to discuss its priority above previous system, previous system was almost perfect, new system is like 5% perfect, it sucks.

Just try to manage pos, or make a fast refit in station, its all 5 times more time consuming than it was with old system


I'm not trolling. The dozen people in this thread that can't adapt are the problem, not the inventory system

How the frak am I supposed to adapt to 2 minute wait times to load my ship hangar at a POS?

Please stop posting, you're not helping people with legitimate gameplay issues caused by this rubbish change.


I had my connection die a few times when I tried to move a hangar full of stuff to a freighter, I'm not arguing that there aren't performance issues.
Rammix
TheMurk
#563 - 2012-05-24 17:01:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Tippia wrote:
So still less efficient than the old way, especially since you have to spring-load the cargo hold each time to figure out how much ammo is needed, and since, as a result of this, you have to keep navigating back to the ammo storage each time as well.

Why??
Normally you don't need to frequently check your ammo in the cargo. You get to know how much you spend for a period of time / some action. Say, put 6k missiles into cargo, go shoot whoever, return. Also ship's cargo button is still availible.
In most situations you know beforehand how much ammo to take from a storage. Drag&drop it via the tree view, or use Ctrl+x and Ctrl+v. No difficulties at all. Hmm, one question: are you keeping your cargo open all the time?? If so, it's just meaningless.

vasuul wrote:

new system

open inventory, open corp hangar expansion arrow , open corp hangar again cause it doesn't stay open the first time ,scroll to appropriate tabs
open in new window or else when you click on that tab you are going to lose your previous window and you will have to reopen it now you can drag and drop as you could before

Again, why?? Why to open an additional window to drag&drop? Open the source, take what you need and drop it right onto the destination in the tree view. Or use Ctrl+x if you believe that seeing the destination is mandatory.

I'm starting to think that some part you who so stubbornly blame unified inventory just can't adapt to (some) new things and it makes you strive to cancel them. Otherwise you would have already accepted it, and your messages would be only reports and suggestions (i.e. normal calm feedback), plus maybe some flood in the topics.

p.s. edited

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VLAD VIRONS
X-SENSE Security
#564 - 2012-05-24 17:06:01 UTC
Still this Inventory makes thing only harder, u seems not getting the idea ppl trying to explain u about, if i open my active ship cargo (shift+etc) and stick it with some chat windows, there no way i open this same window in the same position(sticked with chats)again with one click as it was befor, exaption ofcourse - i will need open whole inventory again and shift+**** that window...

I still miss my all stucked small windows, its was so easy to manage stuff, but now we have that "mother windows explorer" wich is just not works for that game in current design.

P.S. pls pls pls pls pls give old interface back or atleast allow me open each window i want without that damn Inventory...
Rammix
TheMurk
#565 - 2012-05-24 17:09:48 UTC
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
The problems were outlined quite clearly across 25 pages and several WEEKS over there.

Those outlines represent your personal opinion, which is not something correct a-priori.

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Spanking Monkeys
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#566 - 2012-05-24 17:13:58 UTC
everything takes longer now.

before navigating the corp hangers was click, and then clcik on right tab, click on next tab. drag stuffs between them

now the same action takes so much more effort. its open up tree, scroll down, clcikc on corp hanger wait 2 mins, be careful not to double click cos it will close straight away. then find hanger, shift click. resize window so its 10 items wide.
need another hanegr scroll again through list shift click, be careful not to just clcik cos the inventory window becomes the corp hanger window and there is no back button. shift clcik corp hanger you need, stack it with other corp hanger, move stuff, oh wait it wont move stuffs properly cos its not in teh inventory window, its a differnt bad window thats not a real one only pretend. so find the corp hanger in the inventory and drag it there.

i just dont understand how this buggy pile of crap, landed on tq. and while i understand you rolled it out you shoudl try to fix it, for the love of god put the old one back on tq now and go back to sisi with this thing until its working and has the functionality of teh old one
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#567 - 2012-05-24 17:14:17 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Why??
Normally you don't need to frequently check your ammo in the cargo.
It's very handy when you fill up that cargo hold to know how much you need to fill it up with, and when you're out flying, it's very handy to know how much you have left.

Quote:
In most situations you know beforehand how much ammo to take from a storage.
…and people accuse me of being anal. Shocked
No, in most situations I have no idea how much ammo I need to take from storage. I first have to look in my cargo hold to see how much is there and then top that up to whatever amount I think will be appropriate to bring. I don't memorise that number each time I go back to dock… after all, why would I when I and can just look at the screen and see it any time I like? Well… replace that with “didn't”, “would I have” and “could”, since doing so now requires more work.

Quote:
are you keeping your cargo open all the time?
Of course. That way I have constant access to the information, and it's not like it takes up any space.

Quote:
Why to open an additional window to drag&drop? Open the source, take what you need and drop it right onto the destination in the tree view.
Because you occasionally need to know how much you already have before you start piling more things in there and because it's easier to keep both the source and the destination open at once so have all the information you ever need at your immediate disposal. It also means you don't have to navigate back and forth between the two locations because both are already open — no further navigation is needed.

What you're describing is a scenario when all you do is take a pile of stuff and throw it somewhere. What we're talking about is all the instances when you have to take a large number of piles of various sizes and throw exact amounts of them somewhere. Subtle difference, but still worlds apart as far as use patterns goes.

Quote:
I'm starting to think that you who so stubbornly blame unified inventory just can't adapt to (some) new things and it makes you strive to cancel them.
The problem is that “adapt to” means ”do things less efficiently” in this case, and it really shouldn't surprise you when people stubbornly refuse to accept or adapt things that require them to be slower and do more work.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#568 - 2012-05-24 17:15:53 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Those outlines represent your personal opinion, which is not something correct a-priori.
Congratualtions. You just dismissed all feedback ever.

Based on this, we can conclude that your feedback is irrelevant and that the system is indeed broken beyond belief without any chance of salvation. CCP: please revert back to Trinity — Rammix approves of this move. Roll
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#569 - 2012-05-24 17:16:25 UTC  |  Edited by: knobber Jobbler
Piquet Raddei wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not. I will however go fairly far in implementing feedback that improves this piece of UI though. Feedback continues to be welcome.


This makes me a sad, sad panda...


It makes me sad because CCP should have sought this feedback before they deployed this crap. What good they did and trust they won back after Crucible has been lost now. The UI changes are universally hated.

CCP, some advice from someone in the same business; please research and test your ideas out before implementing them wholesale. Maybe do some focus group stuff. Maybe force CCP employees to play EVE for at least 1 day of each working week. Maybe even copy across a snapshot of player accounts to a test server, access them, try to use them as players might and you'd have found these UI issues out pretty quickly.

Its pretty apparent that only a small group of CCP employees play EVE for more than just a token amount of time.
Rammix
TheMurk
#570 - 2012-05-24 17:17:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The problem is that “adapt to” means ”do things less efficiently” in this case, and it really shouldn't surprise you when people stubbornly refuse to accept or adapt things that require them to be slower and do more work.

I'm talking about "return old ui back"-like messages.

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread

Captain Praxis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#571 - 2012-05-24 17:18:18 UTC
Jagoff Haverford wrote:

...
The new inventory system won't let me copy data from it any longer. I have a container filled with PI products. It doesn't matter if I open the container in the main inventory window, or if I shift-click it to open it in a separate window. I can't copy data out of it, and I therefore can no longer paste it into Excel. Which is to say, the cool thing that CCP put in place just last month has already been un-done by this latest change. I'm back to typing my inventory values into spreadsheets that I pull up on a separate computer.
...


This made me go Shocked

I think that shows just how poorly planned the whole UI debacle really has been Sad
Mongo Edwards
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#572 - 2012-05-24 17:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mongo Edwards
You can still merge the ship hangar and items into the station overview. This option is in the center column of the general settings under the station heading.

It gives you limited dual pane support and make item management much easier with many cans. It also appears that "child" windows persist after docking which is nice so it makes dragging things from your ships cargo to the proper station container easier. The items hanger merged with station services also provides a lot of convenient shortcuts (if you have tons of cans) to that particular section of the unified inventory.

I'm still getting used to this new system but it should make things a bit easier for folks like myself (and Tippia it seems) who like to be able to look in multiple places at once.

P.S. It seems like some things are definitely faster with the new UI and others are a bit slower. When the fix the time delay in opening containers it will make things much easier.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#573 - 2012-05-24 17:21:10 UTC
Corporate Hangars no longer remember the last used division when opened, they just default to the first hangar in A-Z sort. In my case the first hangar I have no access to at all.
vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group
#574 - 2012-05-24 17:22:43 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Tippia wrote:
So still less efficient than the old way, especially since you have to spring-load the cargo hold each time to figure out how much ammo is needed, and since, as a result of this, you have to keep navigating back to the ammo storage each time as well.

Why??
Normally you don't need to frequently check your ammo in the cargo. You get to know how much you spend for a period of time / some action. Say, put 6k missiles into cargo, go shoot whoever, return. Also ship's cargo button is still availible.
In most situations you know beforehand how much ammo to take from a storage. Drag&drop it via the tree view, or use Ctrl+x and Ctrl+v. No difficulties at all. Hmm, one question: are you keeping your cargo open all the time?? If so, it's just meaningless.

vasuul wrote:

new system

open inventory, open corp hangar expansion arrow , open corp hangar again cause it doesn't stay open the first time ,scroll to appropriate tabs
open in new window or else when you click on that tab you are going to lose your previous window and you will have to reopen it now you can drag and drop as you could before

Again, why?? Why to open an additional window to drag&drop? Open the source, take what you need and drop it right onto the destination in the tree view. Or use Ctrl+x if you believe that seeing the destination is mandatory.

I'm starting to think that you who so stubbornly blame unified inventory just can't adapt to (some) new things and it makes you strive to cancel them. Otherwise you would have already accepted it, and your messages would be only reports and suggestions (i.e. normal calm feedback), plus maybe some flood in the topics.



not opening a new window is fine if you are only moving one item like ammo if you need to take from your ship and add other things back to your cargo you are flipping back and forth between the tree and each time you flip from one part of the tree you lose the other tab that you had open

if you are mining or doing PI this just doesn't work if you only need to move one item its fine but i move multiple items to different locations especially if you use cans in your corp hangers to keep stuff separated anyway
Rammix
TheMurk
#575 - 2012-05-24 17:25:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Rammix wrote:
Those outlines represent your personal opinion, which is not something correct a-priori.
Congratualtions. You just dismissed all feedback ever.

Based on this, we can conclude that your feedback is irrelevant and that the system is indeed broken beyond belief without any chance of salvation. CCP: please revert back to Trinity — Rammix approves of this move. Roll

Nope.
Personal opinion is just personal opinion unless devs have the same point of view.
Only thing that truly is not personal and has some meaning is statistics. That is, which things are blamed more often, which features cause more bugs/glitches, testing statistics with proper logs. Statistical value of data from SiSi is much lower than that from Tranquility.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#576 - 2012-05-24 17:32:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Rammix wrote:
Personal opinion is just personal opinion unless devs have the same point of view.
Actually, it's still personal opinion no matter what. That doesn't mean it has no value. Quite the opposite, in fact. We are talking about a user interface here, which means that the user's opinions is the ultimate metric.

Quote:
Only thing that truly is not personal and has some meaning is statistics.
Hahahaha. No. Statistics have zero meaning — they're just data. What matters is how those are interpreted and what goes into that interpretation, and that can be a very subjective affair. Moreover, not everything can be measured through statistics. Statistics is a useful analytical tool; it is not an answer, and it has strict limitations as a tool as well.

Quote:
Statistical value of data from SiSi is much lower than that from Tranquility.
Not really, no, because we're not talking about something that has any statistically measurable — we're looking at a fairly classic case of qualitative analysis, and as it happens the outcome has been the same on TQ as it was on Sisi.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#577 - 2012-05-24 17:38:05 UTC
Just now this buggy piece of crap inventory all by itself set my ships window to list view instead of Icons.

I have NEVER used anything but Icons in any of my windows.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.

Camorda
Southern Cross Trilogy
#578 - 2012-05-24 17:46:03 UTC
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE CCP

WE HAD STUFF THAT WORKED AND NOW WE DONT !

NOT HAPPY
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#579 - 2012-05-24 17:48:19 UTC
Hey guys

We should have another round of fixes/changes coming this Tuesday (Monday is a public holiday in Iceland). I'll post that list in the thread Tuesday morning.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#580 - 2012-05-24 17:51:56 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
The problems were outlined quite clearly across 25 pages and several WEEKS over there.

Those outlines represent your personal opinion, which is not something correct a-priori.


???? That's 25 pages of postings on Test Server Forums of which I am maybe .01%. You make no sense dude.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900