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High sec plexes need entry keys
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Sir John Halsey
#141 - 2012-05-23 19:48:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir John Halsey
Plentath wrote:
Liliana Rahl wrote:
On that note though, T3 should be locked out of high sec plexes. Not for the reasons the OP has given but simply because its just silly that such a powerful ship is used to do those sites.

I welcome all tengu pilots to delightfully refute this point.


Name another ship with a scan bonus that can run 3 or 4/10s ?


You don't really need a ship with scan bonus to run 3/10 or 4/10.

I use a Caracal Navy Issue with one grav rig, sisters launcher+probes and scanning skills lvl2 (well, astrometrics is 5 but all the other are lvl2) and i can scan all the sigs excepting the 0.02.
Probably with lvl4 skills and a +2% implant i'll be able to scan also those 0.02.

The layout of Caracal Navy is pretty nice + 3 goblins II can pack some damage too ...

With all this said, i can't wait to get my Tengu.
If it can go in ... why not using it?
Anton Menges Saddat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2012-05-23 20:27:20 UTC
when this happens again, just say '**** it' on the bounties and start following him, let him kill the boss, and as soon as he does, just target and pop the wreck. if you can't have it, noone will, and he'll get tired of following you into sites after a while :)
Plentath
Sparkle Motion.
#143 - 2012-05-23 22:08:59 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Obviously you didn't understand what I wrote or you have no clue due to being a fairly new player


Here's your first argument based on an appeal to false authority. I'm going to call it being elitist.
Quote:
sarcastic failed attempt at trolling

Failed? FAILED?
You posted a whole lot of "I AM MAD!"

So no, not failed.
Quote:
It was very complicated and time consuming requiring a lot of patience and a much higher skill level than what is currently needed

Elitism.

Also, there wasn't REALLY any more skill involved at all, it was just a **** load more annoying and time consuming. In fact, it was rather more reliable than the current system. I used the old system, it was changed because it was needlessly annoying.

But your point is basically "Gee, now ANYONE can do it!"

Which is elitism.

Quote:
I started playing this game at the start of Empyrean Age - Summer Expansion, 2008. I trained up specifically for exploration.


I played RMR -> Trinity before I quit for a long time due to University. Want to make more silly assumptions based on the age of a forum posting character?

"It was made a lot easier and faster, requiring a much lower skill level than before. More exploration sites were added including w-systems and an Exploration Career Agent. A lot more players are now doing it."

This is a good thing. Barriers to entry that were based on undocumented techniques and a cumbersome UI are not good for gameplay.

"Here's a bit of advice for you:
Try contributing some worthwhile information to the conversation"

I did. It's you who came in here with a terrible elitist attitude and telling people how it was all better in the old days because you got to have the sites to yourself.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2012-05-24 02:40:48 UTC
Plentath wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Obviously you didn't understand what I wrote or you have no clue due to being a fairly new player


Here's your first argument based on an appeal to false authority. I'm going to call it being elitist.
Quote:
sarcastic failed attempt at trolling

Failed? FAILED?
You posted a whole lot of "I AM MAD!"

So no, not failed.
Quote:
It was very complicated and time consuming requiring a lot of patience and a much higher skill level than what is currently needed

Elitism.

Also, there wasn't REALLY any more skill involved at all, it was just a **** load more annoying and time consuming. In fact, it was rather more reliable than the current system. I used the old system, it was changed because it was needlessly annoying.

But your point is basically "Gee, now ANYONE can do it!"

Which is elitism.

Quote:
I started playing this game at the start of Empyrean Age - Summer Expansion, 2008. I trained up specifically for exploration.


I played RMR -> Trinity before I quit for a long time due to University. Want to make more silly assumptions based on the age of a forum posting character?

"It was made a lot easier and faster, requiring a much lower skill level than before. More exploration sites were added including w-systems and an Exploration Career Agent. A lot more players are now doing it."

This is a good thing. Barriers to entry that were based on undocumented techniques and a cumbersome UI are not good for gameplay.

"Here's a bit of advice for you:
Try contributing some worthwhile information to the conversation"

I did. It's you who came in here with a terrible elitist attitude and telling people how it was all better in the old days because you got to have the sites to yourself.


Oh please, talk about 'ELITISM'. After viewing your forum posting history, the majority of your replies are nothing more than insults disguised as advice quoting the same old stale memes that have been tossed around these forums for way too long. I'm just going to call it what it is, trolling.

No rage was ever posted in my reply yet you immediately assumed it and decided to attack me initially with an edited quote containing a sarcastic insult intended to demean and berate me personally. A classic example of trolling and you still insist on continuing it.

As for the old probing system, it definitely required a lot more skill compared to the current probing system which basically holds your hand and gives you the location of signatures. The old scanning system also required a lot more thought for correct probe usage and placement just to find a signature. That's what made it a 'specialized' career path and it wasn't easily accessible to brand new players on trial accounts.

You may think making exploration easily accessible to a 1 day old player is a good thing because it increases more competition. Unfortunately that's not the case, which is clearly proven by the op. Basically what it does is cut out the inspiration for a long term committed subscription plan. The main reason CCP revamped probing and made exploration easy was to promote and encourage players to interact with their new content - W-Holes and Sleepers. It wasn't intended for everyone and their mothers to mainly do exploration in high security. Due to exploration sites being easily accessible and the low risk factor involved, high sec has become 'fished out' resulting in threads like this one being created.

And yes, my point is indeed "Gee, now ANYONE can do it!" and yes it was indeed better in the ole days due to being a 'specialized' career path. That's not elitism, it's called realism.

As for your claims - played from Red Moon Rising to Trinity, used the old scanning interface, left game long time, created this character as a forum posting alt, etc. Yeah right. You'd have much more luck selling me a bridge..

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Plentath
Sparkle Motion.
#145 - 2012-05-24 09:47:20 UTC
Holy bajeesus are you mad.

No, not angry, just flat out bonkers. Everything someone says that you don't agree with is a "proven fact" and "I know better as I have played longer"

You are exactly the kind of whiney, self aggrandizing and entitled sperg who thinks that part of the game is "theirs" and others should be locked out of it.

Yes, I ******* used the old probing system. No, it did not take any more skill. It just took a lot of ******* around for no good reason.

Having to change your probes type instead of being able to set the range didn't take more skill, it was just ANNOYING and counter-intuitive. Being unable to search for all types at once if your skills were low was a stupid barrier and it was ANNOYING. Having to warp to probes and drop new ones was ANNOYING. Having to warp, destroy and drop probes was a click fest, frustrating and ANNOYING. Is it the ferret or fathom probe next? Counter-intuitive.
People who chose to actually do this were ******* masochists and making the barrier to entry frustration and annoyance was not a good thing. Seriously. What the **** are you on?

The system now is essentially 3D geometry and actually makes some logical sense.

The new system takes more player skill to do well. Under the old system you simply needed to know what to do, and deal with the inevitable frustration of applying it. The new system actually requires you to look at the results, interpret them in 3D space and then make a decision on how to set your 5-8 probes. All you needed to do on the old system was drop the right probe for the result strength.

Quote:
You may think making exploration easily accessible to a 1 day old player is a good thing because it increases more competition. Unfortunately that's not the case, which is clearly proven by the op.

What? OP proved that you can whine and ask for an instance in a sandbox. That's not a valid argument for or against anything other than he is a whiney babby and won't listen.
Quote:
Due to exploration sites being easily accessible and the low risk factor involved, high sec has become 'fished out'

a) They're not fished out. Care to explain how I have made a lot of ISK from them in the past few months?
b) If they were, go to lowsec. Supply / demand and working as intended.

I love how you can say they are "fished out" when the reason people farm for the GSO is to find a module where the demand exceeds the supply and it's ergo worth a lot of ISK Roll
Quote:
And yes, my point is indeed "Gee, now ANYONE can do it!" and yes it was indeed better in the ole days due to being a 'specialized' career path. That's not elitism, it's called realism.

No, it's you being elitist and being completely unable to see the failure of logic in your own argument.
Other arguments that have historically been "realism" :
- Segregation
- Women not being able to vote
- Apartheid

You're basically just whining and moaning that CCP changed a game mechanic to make it more popular, and as a result your profits have gone down. Forget that off the back of this thousands of players have taken it up, DeMichael Crimson wants it to be his little playground.

You're literally suggesting players being less frustrated and having more fun is a bad thing.

Christ.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2012-05-24 10:02:04 UTC
Anton Menges Saddat wrote:
when this happens again, just say '**** it' on the bounties and start following him, let him kill the boss, and as soon as he does, just target and pop the wreck. if you can't have it, noone will, and he'll get tired of following you into sites after a while :)


Except you get concorded for killing a wreck that isnt yours
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#147 - 2012-05-24 10:59:16 UTC
World of Warcraft ---->


If you don't like sandbox mmo's, DON'T PLAY THEM!!!

The Tears Must Flow
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#148 - 2012-05-24 11:03:58 UTC
There was a guy running highsec plexes in a Loki in my area. I bought and t2 fitted an AF just to beat him to the plexes and show him the stupid overkill in what he's doing.

My point is, knowledge/information means more than ship. Just because they farm them regulary in t3's, doesn't mean they farm them well, or even have a good setup.

Radars and Mags are barely touched in highsec, while the deadspace mods dropping there is desireable. The natural progression is that more experienced pilots will go for deadspace loot, while those getting into the business go through magneto and radars.

PS. You can't buy experience.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Mei ra'Zhault
Kimotoro Trading Company
#149 - 2012-05-24 11:31:28 UTC
posting in epic whine thread

Tel Airuta wrote:
Yesterday after spending nearly an hour scanning down a 3/10 site in a 0.9 system and finding the plex, making my way through about half way through the plex who should show up but this guy in a Legion Tech 3..

Tel Airuta wrote:
after spending nearly an hour scanning down a 3/10 site in a 0.9 system and finding the plex

Tel Airuta wrote:
nearly an hour scanning down a 3/10

Shocked

Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Ofcourse i had NO idea that anyone has already done it so i proceeded to shoot things with my legion, 4 perma tracking disruptors brought my 40k scorch range to 6k. Eventually(20 minutes or so) i cleared the room and moved through the gate just to find yellow wreck of the overseer. I was MAD.

How to cast spell like dscan?
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2012-05-24 11:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
Mei ra'Zhault wrote:
posting in epic whine thread

Tel Airuta wrote:
Yesterday after spending nearly an hour scanning down a 3/10 site in a 0.9 system and finding the plex, making my way through about half way through the plex who should show up but this guy in a Legion Tech 3..

Tel Airuta wrote:
after spending nearly an hour scanning down a 3/10 site in a 0.9 system and finding the plex

Tel Airuta wrote:
nearly an hour scanning down a 3/10

Shocked

Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Ofcourse i had NO idea that anyone has already done it so i proceeded to shoot things with my legion, 4 perma tracking disruptors brought my 40k scorch range to 6k. Eventually(20 minutes or so) i cleared the room and moved through the gate just to find yellow wreck of the overseer. I was MAD.

How to cast spell like dscan?


Funny you should mention it, I AM using dscan before i even launch DSP in the system just to check if there is any probes/ competition. I also use dscan throughout the scanning process, i speed up my scanning if i see someone in local thats not a miner/transport. At that point, local was empty and there weren't a single soul in the system. Who in the right mind fits a cloaky t3 in hisec ?!
1. Tengu appeared on dscan when i was in the first room, HOWEVER there was no indication(no wrecks) that anyone visited the site i was in. I thought that i was the first.
2. What happened was i scanned the system for sites after he's done it with his alt, he logged onto his main>he skipped room 1, he left, i wasted time.

Sure, that was some bad timing. Also, it was my first time ever doing Sansha vigil's that morning so i didn't even realise that the control outpost tower thingy was missing from the overview filled with red crosses, my bad, i should google everything before i do anything in eve, because that's SO MUCH FUN to follow a walkthrough/guide.Roll
Plentath
Sparkle Motion.
#151 - 2012-05-24 15:46:31 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Funny you should mention it, I AM using dscan before i even launch DSP in the system just to check if there is any probes/ competition. I also use dscan throughout the scanning process, i speed up my scanning if i see someone in local thats not a miner/transport. At that point, local was empty and there weren't a single soul in the system. Who in the right mind fits a cloaky t3 in hisec ?!
1. Tengu appeared on dscan when i was in the first room, HOWEVER there was no indication(no wrecks) that anyone visited the site i was in. I thought that i was the first.
2. What happened was i scanned the system for sites after he's done it with his alt, he logged onto his main>he skipped room 1, he left, i wasted time.

Sure, that was some bad timing. Also, it was my first time ever doing Sansha vigil's that morning so i didn't even realise that the control outpost tower thingy was missing from the overview filled with red crosses, my bad, i should google everything before i do anything in eve, because that's SO MUCH FUN to follow a walkthrough/guide.Roll


What's your point?

You've pretty much explained that what you did ought to have worked for you, but you still seem to be whining, based on some unlucky series of events?

I'm lost.

It looks more likely you didn't DScan at all (there had to be wrecks) and you're now weaving a yarn.

Either way, is any of this pertinent to the discussion?
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2012-05-24 15:54:39 UTC
Plentath wrote:


What's your point?

You've pretty much explained that what you did ought to have worked for you, but you still seem to be whining, based on some unlucky series of events?

I'm lost.

It looks more likely you didn't DScan at all (there had to be wrecks) and you're now weaving a yarn.

Either way, is any of this pertinent to the discussion?


I just shared my exploration experience, thats all. OP shared his thoughts but i guess that sharing my ideas on "consumable keys and clear the first room to proceed" are somehow classified as whining by you, even if i think that it would help new players to not waste their time on already blitzed sitesRoll
Plentath
Sparkle Motion.
#153 - 2012-05-24 16:42:59 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Plentath wrote:


What's your point?

You've pretty much explained that what you did ought to have worked for you, but you still seem to be whining, based on some unlucky series of events?

I'm lost.

It looks more likely you didn't DScan at all (there had to be wrecks) and you're now weaving a yarn.

Either way, is any of this pertinent to the discussion?


I just shared my exploration experience, thats all. OP shared his thoughts but i guess that sharing my ideas on "consumable keys and clear the first room to proceed" are somehow classified as whining by you, even if i think that it would help new players to not waste their time on already blitzed sitesRoll


We've already beat this over the head.

tl;dr -

* Instanced content will never appear in EvE. Suck it up.
* If it did appear, it would be a nerf to new players who can think outside the box and buff to old players with better skills and equipment
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2012-05-24 17:13:13 UTC
Plentath wrote:

We've already beat this over the head.

tl;dr -

* Instanced content will never appear in EvE. Suck it up.
* If it did appear, it would be a nerf to new players who can think outside the box and buff to old players with better skills and equipment



You missed my whole point. Im saying that a rat should drop the gate key and the only way for that rat to appear is to fight through the waves. Also, that key is to be CONSUMED on the gate use.

This would give an indication that someone has done the site incase SOMEONE warps in to a site thats been blitzed(by destroying a tower that leaves no wreckage).

Right now there are several keys that have unlimited uses. Some site already have the rule "kill all the rats to move on", i don't see why its a problem to make all sites like that.

I don't like instanced content nor i meant it in anything i've written.
Kalpel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#155 - 2012-05-24 17:29:40 UTC
Beledia Ilphukiir wrote:
Time for a reality check people. CCP isn't going to make the sites your private playground. That goes against everything EVE is about, but don't let that stop you from wasting your time asking for it. As long as the sites are worth doing you're going to have to compete over them. If you ban T3's, you'll compete against faction fitted pirate ships with the same end result. Even if you limited the sites to a single ship type, you'd still lose them, because the other explorers are better at it then you and fit their ships to blitz the site and get the loot. That is the only proper way to fly these sites. If you just want to do the brain numbing NPC grind or take your time, go fly missions and let the rest of us enjoy the gambling/speed racing that is highsec exploration.



This ^^^^ ................ and to the OP learn how to play the game better, put in your time get a better ship etc etc ..., DED's are totally up for grabs and whoever kills or blows up the objective first wins, but not always you can be faster and steal the loot before they can, but be warned - good DED site runners always have a point, I know I do Big smile

You failed to target nothing! ≡v≡ online ... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Plentath
Sparkle Motion.
#156 - 2012-05-24 17:54:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Plentath
Quote:
You missed my whole point. Im saying that a rat should drop the gate key and the only way for that rat to appear is to fight through the waves. Also, that key is to be CONSUMED on the gate use.

This would give an indication that someone has done the site incase SOMEONE warps in to a site thats been blitzed(by destroying a tower that leaves no wreckage).
I don't see how the suggestion helps any, I really don't.

As it stands, if someone blitzes the site and spawns and pops the overseer then the entire thing despawns seconds after they leave the grid. You would possibly save the once-in-a-blue-moon instance of someone trying to start a site that is seconds from completion ... but then under the current mechanics you can see that happening on Dscan anyway.

Whether the site is "blitzable" or "kill all" seems like a moot point - again, how does this in any way help?
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2012-05-24 18:29:20 UTC
Plentath wrote:


As it stands, if someone blitzes the site and spawns and pops the overseer then the entire thing despawns seconds after they leave the grid. You would possibly save the once-in-a-blue-moon instance of someone trying to start a site that is seconds from completion ... but then under the current mechanics you can see that happening on Dscan anyway.

Whether the site is "blitzable" or "kill all" seems like a moot point - again, how does this in any way help?



I can't understand how you can't understand the point which im trying to make.

Kill all = leaves wrecks behind
Blitzing the first room by destroying a large collidable structure that leaves no wreck is the problem.

If players see even 1 yellow wreck in the site they won't bother with it, in this case they DON'T see the wreck so they DO bother with the first room just to find that the second room was already done.

As i said, it was MY mistake that i DIDN'T realize that the control tower was missing from the overview, but it defies the whole "exploration" concept if you go in knowing/following a guide. Yes im new to exploration, now i know that i have to follow a guide.Roll

From new explorer point of view it would be EASIER to see that someone has ran the site if you were to SEE wrecks. That's why clearing the room to get rat spawn is better than the current kill structure and move on.
Mei ra'Zhault
Kimotoro Trading Company
#158 - 2012-05-24 19:33:14 UTC
You know you can see wrecks on dscan, right?
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#159 - 2012-05-24 19:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
Mei ra'Zhault wrote:
You know you can see wrecks on dscan, right?

Now i realize that my wrecks and ships+probes are in different tabs and i have the little "use current overview settings" checked. Thanks.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#160 - 2012-05-24 20:55:31 UTC
I scan on a daily basis my system. Sometimes I scan the two adjacent systems. If I find a site, and IF I choose to do it. I will be doing it for the fun. Nothing more, nothing less. I do 3/10's in a Caracal, alt flies a Dessie salvager. If I find a 4/10 then I fly a Drake and Noctis. I couldnt care less if someone in a Tengu comes and gets the loot. (A very rare occurance, I would add) I am playing to shoot things. Loot and salvage is a bonus.

The rules of the game are set, every time you log in. By playing the game you accept these rules. Some rules are unfair, but hey L2adapt. There is more to EVE than just exploring. I am a year old in game, and I have only just touched the tip of the iceberg. A month old is nothing in this game, but the beauty of this game is that you can still compete. Even being a month old

Many times I have seen people more concerned about ISK/hr and bursting a Blood vessel because they are hindered in making ISK, than playing the game as a game should be played. Competively and for enjoyment.



o7