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What would you pay for lab time (copy/research)

Author
Jared Sheidowdragon
Security Through Obscurity
#1 - 2012-05-20 20:58:30 UTC
So I currently have a hi sec POS that I'm considering switching for labs as a service. Looking at current fuel prices and a profit margin I'm comfortable with, I'd have to charge about 50,000 Isk / lab hour on copies. This is comparable to some contracts I checked - Hammerhead BPC ran about 300,000 Isk per max run copy. However, I have no idea if people actually buy at this price since I don't have the market trend tools with Contracts. It feels like its targeting small time producers or mission runners, not industrialists. For the effort involved, I'd rather do bulk 20 run copies which is more for invention.

So the question is - what would you be willing to pay for someone else to do your copies or ME/PE research?
Mishraile Viliana
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-05-20 22:14:45 UTC
Well if you want to set a price you will have to consider the price of your competitors (mainly NPC lines) and with this 50000 isk would seem rather high.



Your main strenght is no wait time yet and a 0.75 multiplier on duration. On the other hand NPC lines run at a few hundred isk per hour but you have a queu for 20-40 days for copying and ME (PE is usually instant) and no reduced time due to the installation.

Assuming a NPC price of 500 per hour for PE this would mean a 30 day job would cost me ~360000 isk at a station or ~19.5 million with you while I would save a week in actual research time and upto 40 days in waiting time for copying and ME (depending on how much you look around). And just so you know I know a station that runs these jobs at 9 isk per hour allthought the wait times are considerably higher there.



So as someone that mostly dabbles in industry at the moment while persuing other interests in game that price tag would be well above anything I would pay. Especially if you consider that I don't mind putting a blueprint into a job for upto to 60 days while I run my production lines with bpo's that are already researched or require no research to begin with.
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-05-21 00:25:12 UTC
If I recall from the time I spent in NER (New Eden Research), they publish a list of rates, unless each tower holder now sets their own rates. You might inquire with them (another thread here about NER).
Arushia
Nova Labs
Stainless Steel Orkz
#4 - 2012-05-21 07:59:13 UTC
Katja Faith wrote:
If I recall from the time I spent in NER (New Eden Research), they publish a list of rates, unless each tower holder now sets their own rates. You might inquire with them (another thread here about NER).


They do set their own rates.

Copying is a little trickier, as you have to be in the corp that owns the tower to do copying. I charge corp-mates 20k per hour for copying, but being in corp includes other perks such as dividends and duties such as ice-mining.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#5 - 2012-05-21 10:08:11 UTC
Mishraile Viliana wrote:
Well if you want to set a price you will have to consider the price of your competitors (mainly NPC lines) and with this 50000 isk would seem rather high.



Your main strenght is no wait time yet and a 0.75 multiplier on duration. On the other hand NPC lines run at a few hundred isk per hour but you have a queu for 20-40 days for copying and ME (PE is usually instant) and no reduced time due to the installation.

Assuming a NPC price of 500 per hour for PE this would mean a 30 day job would cost me ~360000 isk at a station or ~19.5 million with you while I would save a week in actual research time and upto 40 days in waiting time for copying and ME (depending on how much you look around). And just so you know I know a station that runs these jobs at 9 isk per hour allthought the wait times are considerably higher there.



So as someone that mostly dabbles in industry at the moment while persuing other interests in game that price tag would be well above anything I would pay. Especially if you consider that I don't mind putting a blueprint into a job for upto to 60 days while I run my production lines with bpo's that are already researched or require no research to begin with.


The character research slot is the same resource for invention (ie a line is tied up on a character basis whether its inventing or copying), so you get horrible throughput if you public queue copy jobs for invention to make T2.

Large value T1 BPOs also aren't finished in 1 month, so you get to tie up the big capital for more than 1 time through the ME queue for those. ie its far more than 19mil/30 days when you have a reasonable amount of capital.


Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#6 - 2012-05-21 10:55:59 UTC
I added a pos calculator for research and copies to EVE IPH awhile back to capture the cost of doing copies at a pos into your invention runs. You can put in your setup and either choose buying blocks or building them to see how much the rate per hour is for all types of research. you might want to use that.

It really comes down to your setup. If you have a large tower with max labs and no guns, then it'll be cheaper per slot of course. A lot more risk though too.

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Jared Sheidowdragon
Security Through Obscurity
#7 - 2012-05-21 16:40:43 UTC
We just have a small tower in an ice field. Unfortunately we're in a small corp with a couple friends and the guy that currently organizes our Ice mining is quitting, so I have to make sure whatever I charge covers the cost of buying the fuel. I'll take a look at IPH.

If I knew I would be at capacity for the copy slots, I could definitely afford to lower the ME price to match what NER charges. With my current play time and summer travel coming up, I think I might be better off Isk / online hour running missions and/or doing PI. The sad part there is that I'd have to unachor my tower and go through the corp standings mini-game if I want to set it back up.
Haulie Berry
#8 - 2012-05-21 16:46:42 UTC
I would not pay significantly more than the fuel cost per slot-hour of running my own research POS...


...but I do a lot of research. If someone needs a one-off research job done, I suppose they might be willing to pay a premium.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#9 - 2012-05-21 17:12:42 UTC
There is an opportunity cost to using the public research slots. If you install a job with a 40 day wait. That is one research job on that character that is tied up for 40+ days.

I may consider that price if I need to research a smaller item (that won't spend much time in the lab to get to optimal ME) but that is a bit high for bigger items (Like ship BPOs)

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#10 - 2012-05-21 17:38:05 UTC
50k per hour sounds high, at least for "contracted" research where someone gives you a BPO and wants it researched to a specific level. Open market researched BPOs, the market varies a lot.

Historical POS fuel prices for a large tower have been in the 350-450M per 30 days range for a long time. So excluding the current isotope price frenzy due to HAG5, I'd plan your prices around a baseline of 450M/30d, which means that for every hour of operation, you need to cover 625k ISK/hr in fuel costs across the slots that you have active.

Caldari towers have 7500 CPU, mobile labs are 500 (3 ME 3 PE 1 COPY 5 INV), advanced mobile labs are 600tf (2 ME 2 COPY 2 INV). That gives you 24-45 ME 0-45 PE 15-24 COPY 24-75 INV slots. Assuming that you try to keep your ME/COPY slots 100% busy and run a mix of labs so you have some PE slots (say 12 PE slots kept busy), you'll be running about 50-60 slots full time.

625k / 40 = 15625/hr
625k / 50 = 12500/hr
625k / 60 = 10417/hr

That's the ISK/hr that you have to charge in order to cover your fuel costs. You then have to decide "what profit margin makes it worth my time". Maybe you charge only 16k/hr, but add a 100k install fee to make it worth your time to touch the slot.
Kosomot
Player Vs Ore
Miners Of Independence
#11 - 2012-05-22 16:13:54 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
50k per hour sounds high, at least for "contracted" research where someone gives you a BPO and wants it researched to a specific level. Open market researched BPOs, the market varies a lot.

Historical POS fuel prices for a large tower have been in the 350-450M per 30 days range for a long time. So excluding the current isotope price frenzy due to HAG5, I'd plan your prices around a baseline of 450M/30d, which means that for every hour of operation, you need to cover 625k ISK/hr in fuel costs across the slots that you have active.

Caldari towers have 7500 CPU, mobile labs are 500 (3 ME 3 PE 1 COPY 5 INV), advanced mobile labs are 600tf (2 ME 2 COPY 2 INV). That gives you 24-45 ME 0-45 PE 15-24 COPY 24-75 INV slots. Assuming that you try to keep your ME/COPY slots 100% busy and run a mix of labs so you have some PE slots (say 12 PE slots kept busy), you'll be running about 50-60 slots full time.

625k / 40 = 15625/hr
625k / 50 = 12500/hr
625k / 60 = 10417/hr

That's the ISK/hr that you have to charge in order to cover your fuel costs. You then have to decide "what profit margin makes it worth my time". Maybe you charge only 16k/hr, but add a 100k install fee to make it worth your time to touch the slot.


Nice layout, we charge somewhere in the middle and our large tower is full about 80% of the time, it isn't the most profitable, but nets us enough to everything we want.

Consider PI alts for fuel block parts and just by the racial items and make your own fuel blocks if your local station has slots, saved us money.

K

I am a miner, mission runner, and explorer...

or as EVE Online would have it...

A Carebear!!

Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#12 - 2012-05-24 01:17:37 UTC
I would be willing to pay 20K per hour Per blueprint for about 30 days on 60 prints.
Jajas Helper
#13 - 2012-05-24 11:04:33 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
I would be willing to pay 20K per hour Per blueprint for about 30 days on 60 prints.


i'll keep that in mind - and contact you when i get home from work ;)

Inferno do _stuff _with _stuff _to imitate the _stuff _you could do faster with the old stuff

-stuff-

G'Kar5
Alternative Name Data Research Enterprises
#14 - 2012-05-24 16:57:10 UTC
I charge between 25k to 35k per hour for lab time depending on the size of the order and sometimes have to charge an install fee to make it worth your time. For copies, a lot also depends on how much "wasted" time there is between when a job ends and you can reinstall the BPO for more copies. I tend to keep all my POS slots running 23x7 which maybe 5-10 slots ending within the next 24 hours. I max out all the other slots.

For me, the copy business is not very steady. Some months I don't sell a single print, other months I do 3-4B worth. But it is additional revenue that you can get if you use your POS for other things as well (ie your own T2 invention lines, etc).
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#15 - 2012-05-25 01:06:43 UTC
Jajas Helper wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
I would be willing to pay 20K per hour Per blueprint for about 30 days on 60 prints.


i'll keep that in mind - and contact you when i get home from work ;)


Noted, added to contacts.
P.S. this is for 90% ME 10% PE research.