These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

If tracking disruptors are going to increase missile explosion radius, then...
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#41 - 2012-05-24 10:42:15 UTC
I'm perfectly fine with tracking disrupters working vs missiles. In fact I think it's a very good idea, and would help reduce the dominance of ECM as the "one and only" EW. But if we're going to change TDs to affect missiles in the name of consistency, then Tracking Enhancers and Tracking Computers must do so also. It's difficult to argue with a straight face that mods to improve turrets are fine, but mods to improve missiles aren't. And I think TEs and TCs giving missile bonuses would be good too, especially in making the unguided missiles more worthwhile.

Tracking Enhancers giving torps +15% range and +9% precision would go a long way to making them actually viable on anything except stealth bombers, for instance. HAMs would benefit even more. At the moment there's almost no reason to use them instead of HMLs.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-05-24 11:09:07 UTC
Range is a issue with rockets, HAM and torpodes. Module that gives 100% extra range for those would be great.
Lili Lu
#43 - 2012-05-24 13:56:15 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Range is a issue with rockets, HAM and torpodes. Module that gives 100% extra range for those would be great.

Lol, won't happen. Javelin is only 50% boost to range. And considering the rather anemic effect on explosion radius in the TD, I would suspect the counter mod stats whether in a TC or TE or some new missile mods to be more anemic than the TD amount (half again or less).

For a turret an unscripted TD I reduces tracking, optimal, and falloff each 18.4%. Scripted 36.8%. A TE and a scripted TC gives 10% opt and 20% falloff, and the TE gives 7% tracking and a scripted TC gives 20% tracking. So you see that the benefit from a tracking boost mod is always lower than the detriment from a tracking disruption effect.

It would be the same for missiles. Let's use missile range for example. Based on the above, using round numbers, let's say the unscripted TD may reduce flight time by 20%, then the mid or low slot missile mod would probably increase flight time by only 10% or less. This forces fitting choices and avoids op'd results for the ship looking for a boost to it's range or hit quality.
Anthonii
eXpanse eXploration
#44 - 2012-05-24 17:20:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthonii
Lili Lu wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Range is a issue with rockets, HAM and torpodes. Module that gives 100% extra range for those would be great.

Lol, won't happen. Javelin is only 50% boost to range. And considering the rather anemic effect on explosion radius in the TD, I would suspect the counter mod stats whether in a TC or TE or some new missile mods to be more anemic than the TD amount (half again or less).

For a turret an unscripted TD I reduces tracking, optimal, and falloff each 18.4%. Scripted 36.8%. A TE and a scripted TC gives 10% opt and 20% falloff, and the TE gives 7% tracking and a scripted TC gives 20% tracking. So you see that the benefit from a tracking boost mod is always lower than the detriment from a tracking disruption effect.

It would be the same for missiles. Let's use missile range for example. Based on the above, using round numbers, let's say the unscripted TD may reduce flight time by 20%, then the mid or low slot missile mod would probably increase flight time by only 10% or less. This forces fitting choices and avoids op'd results for the ship looking for a boost to it's range or hit quality.


As of now the proposed TD changes only impact explosion radius...nothing in there about flight time.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#45 - 2012-05-24 17:48:15 UTC
@ ccp TD's effecting missiles in any way is ******* deplorable... How about instead you just fix your fail defender mechanics and keep some variety in this game rather than nillify everything...

New CCP balance team sucks, end of story.
Anthonii
eXpanse eXploration
#46 - 2012-05-24 18:25:54 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
@ ccp TD's effecting missiles in any way is ******* deplorable... How about instead you just fix your fail defender mechanics and keep some variety in this game rather than nillify everything...

New CCP balance team sucks, end of story.


I can't wait for the TD change. It will allow my little firetail to finally get a good fight when catching caracal's, drakes, etc.
Lili Lu
#47 - 2012-05-24 19:18:21 UTC
Anthonii wrote:
As of now the proposed TD changes only impact explosion radius...nothing in there about flight time.

yes, but it was talked about by some dev that missile range would be affected similarly by TDs. sorry can't be arsed to search it out.Straight
Cunanium
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-05-24 19:47:20 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Darius Brinn wrote:
-Use no cap.
-Have selectable damage profiles.
-Never miss.
-Transversal becomes almost irrelevant and you always get hit for some (or much) damage.
-And, until now, they were not affected by one of the racial forms of e-war.


Projectile weapons use no cap. They have selectable damage profiles without a type-specific damage bonus, hence you won't lose 20% of your damage potential just by switching to something other than kinetic.

Hitting for next to zero damage is practially indistinguishable from missing in EVE, since there are no procs or other game mechanics that would make hitting for almost no damage worthwhile.

Transversal is irrelevant for missiles, but absolute velocity isn't. And, unlike transversal, absolute velocity of the target cannot be affected by the shooter through clever manoeuvering. Also, sig radius is extremely important for missiles, since you'll never ever hit a target for full damage if its sig radius is below the missiles explosion radius - even if the target is sitting perfectly still.

Sensor dampeners and ECM messes up missile boats just fine (you'll be stuck with lolfofs without a target lock). And missiles, unlike turrets, have defender missiles to worry about.

Quote:
The top PvP killer in EvE is a missile boat.


Because it's cheap and easy to train for.

Quote:
And no. The Drake and the Tengu are not popular only for their insane tanks. We don't see many Rails Tengus around.


If the Tengus rail subsystem wasn't a lame joke and instead somewhat similar to the Proteus' dissonic encoding platform ..



OHH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

Seriously though... everyone should have guessed this was coming. Missiles, as a platform, were immune to two forms of EWAR, TD and Nuets. Projectiles are susceptible to TD's (range), hybrids to TD's AND nuets, and lasers (very much so to nuets and TD's) Missile boats should be lucky that it is impossible to apply enough TD's to a boat to keep it from doing damage.

And, to the argument that TD's are counterable by smart flying to negate transversal, obviously you are neglecting the scrammed/double webbed scenario where even cutting transversal makes negligible difference to the angular velocity, or the case of range disruption (lawl target orbiting at 20km and your optimal + falloff is only 15km)

And the drake and tengu aren't extremely popular in pvp because they are cheap and easy to train (all the BC's require the same level of SP to fly well... all T3's require the same basic skill levels... and price is dictated by supply/demand, completely disregarding that alot of fleet doctrines assume players with 30milish SP anyways....) they are popular because they are ******* awesome. They arn't the only boats that are awesome, but they are definitely insane...
Previous page123