These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Small gang PvP: NPC null sec vs. new FW
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Denuo Secus
#1 - 2012-05-24 09:42:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Denuo Secus
Hi all,

what's your opinion after fighting in new FW the last days? I've no experience regarding NPC null sec...but I hear interesting stories (Syndicate, Curse). What would you say is more interesting for a small group of 5 people searching for constant small(ish) scale PvP?

I could imagine FW is more serious and more organized now. FW systems are also quite concentrated...so blobs roaming around (or stand by to hotdrop you quickly) could be more and more common now. On the other side, said NPC null sec regions are quite extensive...but maybe too extensive?

What do you think?

EDIT: clarification
Shaampoo
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-05-24 10:33:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaampoo
Denuo Secus wrote:
Hi all,

what's your opinion after fighting in new FW the last days? I've no experience regarding NPC null sec...but I hear interesting stories (Syndicate, Curse). What would you say is more interesting for a small group of 5 people searching for constant small(ish) scale PvP?

I could imagine FW is more serious and more organized now. FW systems are also quite concentrated...so blobs roaming around (or stand by to hotdrop you quickly) could be more and more common now. On the other side, said NPC null sec regions are quite extensive...but maybe too extensive?

What do you think?

EDIT: clarification

Hoenst opinion

FW is nice as there less chance of flying into a gate camp

And more chance for 1v1 and your expected to lose your ship so fit cheap but effective

That is my personal opinion and now represent the views of Barack Obama

Edit in response as well

No organization as such

There are groups but you don't have to play ball.

yeah the system are a bit small atm but that just increases the chance of a fight never seen a hotdtop but then again i might be special
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-05-24 13:02:42 UTC
I used to FC in caldari militia, and I have lived in the NPC nullsec (Syndicate, Outer Ring).

There are blobs in both places. Both can provide small gang warfare, but since the investment to living in NPC null is greater than enlisting in FW, I would start in FW.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#4 - 2012-05-24 13:40:51 UTC
Inferno changed allot for faction war. I have a rather dim view of what the station lock outs will mean for small scale pvp. But things are still shaking out. So anything people tell you now will be based either on their expectations, anecdotal stories from the last 2 nights or both.

You can make allot of isk missioning in faction war if you fly for the winning side though. If that is important at all. Also if you fly for the winning side you won't have to deal with negatives of being locked out of stations nearly as often on the small scale pvp side.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-05-24 13:57:14 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Inferno changed allot for faction war. I have a rather dim view of what the station lock outs will mean for small scale pvp. But things are still shaking out. So anything people tell you now will be based either on their expectations, anecdotal stories from the last 2 nights or both.

You can make allot of isk missioning in faction war if you fly for the winning side though. If that is important at all. Also if you fly for the winning side you won't have to deal with negatives of being locked out of stations nearly as often on the small scale pvp side.


I think station lockouts can only improve it. It reduces the chance of your enemy reshipping.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Lord Azeroth
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-05-24 15:08:36 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Inferno changed allot for faction war. I have a rather dim view of what the station lock outs will mean for small scale pvp. But things are still shaking out. So anything people tell you now will be based either on their expectations, anecdotal stories from the last 2 nights or both.

You can make allot of isk missioning in faction war if you fly for the winning side though. If that is important at all. Also if you fly for the winning side you won't have to deal with negatives of being locked out of stations nearly as often on the small scale pvp side.


I think station lockouts can only improve it. It reduces the chance of your enemy reshipping.


I think station lockputs will not improve things, but stagnate them. Reshipping results in more fights, faster combat, now, after a battle one side will have to leave system to repair or reship, or setup logistics in system to support a fleet. I think unless more Null groups enter things will be static for sometime, or a side will just give up and move out of the goofiness that FW seems to be headed for. Several more major Amarr corps appear to be moving to better pastures with the recent patch, but we will see.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#7 - 2012-05-24 15:33:52 UTC
FW sucks now, only getting about 20-30 kills a night, mostly small gang and solo.

Wait actually thats kind of good and FW plexes eliminate blobbage to a certain degree.

nom nom
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#8 - 2012-05-24 15:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
FW warfare has had massive numbers of fights and kills right before and after the patch. 4x the baseline number from before the patch.

More people are out in space and in their ships - even if only to gain some LP plexing. And being out in space leads to more fights. Hopefully it continues. My corp is on a killing spree this week. We may be able to hold our all-timee FW kill lead against SoTF for a bit longer than I expected.

Edit: Update - SoTF is 21 kills behind QCATS! Maybe they will pass us sooner than I expected. :)

Still need to see how it shakes out in the long run.
Dare Knight
Bandwagoners
#9 - 2012-05-24 16:20:33 UTC
I FC'd a fleet last night and it was great. We got in a kill from a ninja-neut and ran a ton of plexes. I like the new lockout system as it gives incentive to flip a system. I was talking to a guy last night who needed to flip a system to get his stuff out of station, so we ran in that system for a while. LP is great, too. System upgrades is a great first step in a wonderful direction. I actually enjoyed myself last night.

The big thing now is that plexing actually serves a decent purpose other than epeen'ing. The new rewards give new incentive. I actually want to fight for my faction now :P

_It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. _
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#10 - 2012-05-24 17:01:26 UTC
I'd imagine the lack of diminishing returns for 'winning' is going to be a bit problematic for post-Inferno FW. There seems to be little incentive to fight for a Faction that's downtrodden as it's the one on top that reap most benefits.

I don't think Datacore scarcity works out well for making people fight for their faction.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#11 - 2012-05-24 17:08:28 UTC
Na, losing side can get LP from plexing anywhere while the winning side kills each other for limited LP availability via plexing. Also its impossible to maintain the system upgrades required to achieve super cheap LP stores unless losing faction is completely inactive. So there are some diminishing returns after all. If anything joining the losing side would be more attractive because of the plexing LP being everywhere and in enough abundance you can solo plex for mad LP. Then when things do turn around (as they ALWAYS do in FW), you cash out and buy a Titan or three.

Tobiaz wrote:
I'd imagine the lack of diminishing returns for 'winning' is going to be a bit problematic for post-Inferno FW. There seems to be little incentive to fight for a Faction that's downtrodden as it's the one on top that reap most benefits.

I don't think Datacore scarcity works out well for making people fight for their faction.


nom nom
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#12 - 2012-05-24 17:19:50 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
Then when things do turn around (as they ALWAYS do in FW)


Dunno, without trying to be smug, I think in the last 2 years we always p much had the upper hand. Or maybe I'm just biased.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#13 - 2012-05-24 18:36:54 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
FW warfare has had massive numbers of fights and kills right before and after the patch. 4x the baseline number from before the patch.

More people are out in space and in their ships - even if only to gain some LP plexing. And being out in space leads to more fights. Hopefully it continues. My corp is on a killing spree this week. We may be able to hold our all-timee FW kill lead against SoTF for a bit longer than I expected.

Edit: Update - SoTF is 21 kills behind QCATS! Maybe they will pass us sooner than I expected. :)

Still need to see how it shakes out in the long run.



I think including the fights that happened before people were locked out of their stations is more than a little misleading. The mechanics have changed.

Prior to the patch there were at least 3 different things that lead to the big fights:

1)Upcoming station lock outs
2) the flip times were going to get much longer
3) Isk consequences for holding systems

Its hard to seperate these factors out. However I do think that even if they didn't have the upcoming station lockouts we still would have seen allot more fighting. Maybe not quite as much and it certainly would not have been in the very limitted number of systems. But we would have seen a large increase in fighting even if ccp would not have done the lockouts due to 2 and 3 above.

The thing is this expansion brings allot of good things in its just too bad ccp had to include their null sec station lockouts. Its impossible to get actual data on how much this will hurt small scale pvp until they actually remove it and it alone.

Will there be more gate camping? Will the average number of people on each kill increase?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#14 - 2012-05-24 18:38:58 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Lock out wrote:
Princess Nexxala wrote:
Then when things do turn around (as they ALWAYS do in FW)


Dunno, without trying to be smug, I think in the last 2 years we always p much had the upper hand. Or maybe I'm just biased.


Even if we retain the pvp upper hand, we may not retain the occupancy upper hand as an aggregate in the theatre. Until we reach a saturation point of plexing (which I don't see happenning), plexing (in terms of who captures the most) is still done the most efficiently by a large number of individual pilots that bail at the first sign of a fair fight (e.g., alts). And when it comes to alt plexing, the caldari militia still have the upper hand when it comes to npcs being ignorable, and raw numbers of pilots.

So the upper hand in occupancy warfare could still swing back and forth depending on how much stomach (and alts) people have for plexing.

I'm not railing against plexing - I've had a fantastic time since the patch with the caldari rallying to defend systems with upgrades. But if the only game in town is to capture the most plexes/hr we gallente are at a disadvantage right now IMO given our mindset (killmail > plex). Which isn't a bad thing, I'm pretty happy just to hold onto a few key station systems and get pew pew while plexing.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#15 - 2012-05-24 18:40:03 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Inferno changed allot for faction war. I have a rather dim view of what the station lock outs will mean for small scale pvp. But things are still shaking out. So anything people tell you now will be based either on their expectations, anecdotal stories from the last 2 nights or both.

You can make allot of isk missioning in faction war if you fly for the winning side though. If that is important at all. Also if you fly for the winning side you won't have to deal with negatives of being locked out of stations nearly as often on the small scale pvp side.


I think station lockouts can only improve it. It reduces the chance of your enemy reshipping.



In faction war we have ship restricted plexes. So if you can't reship you may not even be able to get in the plex to get the pvp.

There are several other reasons why not being able to dock will mean fewer pvp fights in plexes.

Now we may have more fights overall in plexes (due to now getting lp for plexing and other consequences) but that will be despite us not being able to dock not because of it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#16 - 2012-05-24 19:24:03 UTC
Its not smug at all and I completely agree but as far as occupancy goes we will be on the losing side of that probably within a few months. Too many new/old Squids plexing their booties off. I know I can't bring myself to run a defensive plex outside of Nen and many others are the same. As a bonus though all this new blood is chomping at the bit for a fight so the killmails are piling up.
So far this expansion is ****!

Lock out wrote:

Dunno, without trying to be smug, I think in the last 2 years we always p much had the upper hand. Or maybe I'm just biased.

nom nom
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#17 - 2012-05-24 19:26:20 UTC
I would think both sides have enough neutral alts to make this a non issue for serious offensive plexing efforts.

Cearain wrote:


In faction war we have ship restricted plexes. So if you can't reship you may not even be able to get in the plex to get the pvp.

There are several other reasons why not being able to dock will mean fewer pvp fights in plexes.

Now we may have more fights overall in plexes (due to now getting lp for plexing and other consequences) but that will be despite us not being able to dock not because of it.

nom nom
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2012-05-24 19:39:00 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
I would think both sides have enough neutral alts to make this a non issue for serious offensive plexing efforts.

Cearain wrote:


In faction war we have ship restricted plexes. So if you can't reship you may not even be able to get in the plex to get the pvp.

There are several other reasons why not being able to dock will mean fewer pvp fights in plexes.

Now we may have more fights overall in plexes (due to now getting lp for plexing and other consequences) but that will be despite us not being able to dock not because of it.




What do you mean?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#19 - 2012-05-24 19:46:16 UTC
Deep safes with neutral rr able to make supply runs to the station, drop loot, and ferry reships to supply safe. Stuff like that. I can think of several other applications but have yet to try them out.

Cearain wrote:



What do you mean?

nom nom
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#20 - 2012-05-24 20:11:00 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
Deep safes with neutral rr able to make supply runs to the station, drop loot, and ferry reships to supply safe. Stuff like that. I can think of several other applications but have yet to try them out.

Cearain wrote:



What do you mean?



Ok thanks. I wasn't sure what you meant.

So having an alt fly a ship to a safe and then ejecting from it and then swapping out in space? I don't have many alts that can fly what my mains fly and even if they can I don't think they will be able to fit the t2 guns and mods.

My corp has started using a carrier for this purpose. But I am not really thrilled with that whole idea. Sounds like the sort of tedious logistic stuff I would rather avoid.

Having a repper there would be handy though. I have thought of that. Not sure if I want to pay for an extra account just to do this though.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
12Next page