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Modules damaged without overheating after patch

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Doc Severide
Doomheim
#81 - 2012-05-23 17:30:46 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
This is likely my fault, I've been tinkering around with the code that applies the damage (I know scary ****) and as a result this might have changed. There has always been a feature where damage is supposed to leak to the modules but it might very well be that we start leaking a bit too early now.

What ships were you guys flying and did you take a lot of hull damage?

nvm some of you said only slight shield damage. I'll take a look tomorrow morning.

I had the damage to one launcher after shooting at asteroids. I wanted to see the new launchers on my Drake so I just flew to the nearest belt and started shooting. In 60 seconds I had 2% Damage to one launcher...
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#82 - 2012-05-23 17:32:54 UTC
Karsa Egivand wrote:


Let me clarify his response for you: There was NO dev who had a clue about this piece of code anymore. It was badly written and uncommented code. Thats why they decided to rewrite it, so somebody could actually usefully work with it (in the future). The rewrite was not supposed to lead to any changes ATM. They rewrote the code, put it on Sisi (and probably tested it somewhat, to see if sth. was broken). They did not notice that some damage-leaking to modules now ocurred earlier than it should (which is a minor issue, anyway). So they are now going to look at it and fix it.

What is the big deal?


awww I already said that

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#83 - 2012-05-23 20:00:34 UTC
Savage Angel wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
I have had modules damaged when I escaped a few fights with like 1-2% hull left.

Yeah, I've seen it too, in 'skin-of-my-teeth' escpaes, and it makes perfect sense. Once your armor is breached. Or even seriously compromised.

But when you're shileds are still robustly solid? Nuh-uh.


Anyway, I'm confident it's been fixed. But still am disturbed that tinkered code was allowed to roll live without testing. Back when *i* did software development (not all THAT long ago), that was a 'fired day before yesterday' offense.


I doubt it was with no testing - it was likely that the testers did not think outside of the test case. The code is supposed to damage the underlying stuff when the layer above is low. I bet they tested that and it works fine. They just didn't think to check what happens when the layer above is full.

Fair point, but still not an excuse. This is what validation testing is for - to test every condition, inculding initial conditions. Gods know, I've done *my* time in the test-script hells.

Quote:
Anyone working in a complex codeset with screaming customers wanting new features Now Dammit (I do) will understand how it happens. It sucks, and is not a good business practice, but it will happen. At least the damage from this one was minimal, just a tiny bit of ISK compared to the ship you are flying.
Been there, suffered that.
In this case, there *was* no 'screaming customer' looking for this tweak. Indeed, I suspect many would've been just as happy for it to have remained obscure. No need or pressure to roll it when it did - this is the kind of adjustment that can be rolled with pretty much any incremental patch or update. Nope. This is just someone tinkering - within his job role, to be sure - and rolling wihout fully understanding the ramifications of what he was doing.
T'ch. Not good.

However, as you correctly note, it's relatively minor, and easily enough fixed.
This time.
Hopefully, haven gotten his fingers singed, he'll measure twice next time.*



*Why, yes. I AM the king of mixing metaphors. Why do you ask?

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#84 - 2012-05-23 20:29:37 UTC
Tux strikes again?

also if you look at the modules themselves they only took something on the order of 10e-12 or 10e-13 damage or so, and rigs took damage too
Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2012-05-23 20:31:37 UTC
its a new isk sink

hello
reamau
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-05-23 20:53:40 UTC
I have no issue with the intended effect , even if it does feel like durability loss that other games (not just WoW) have done.

As a 20+ years software developer (thats experience, not age) I'm just at a loss how it could end up in production with the explanation the CCP dev gave.

1) They knew it was old/weird code. Was it tagged for the internal testers to look at?
2) Do they even DO internal dev testing before stuff goes to SISI? Most dev environments that I've ever worked with have at least one such layer.
3) Again, weird code with potential unknown effects- why not mention it during SISI testing? A one-liner about it would have had many people spot this and report it before it went live.

To me, it feels like a quality issue more than anything else, and should be blamed on the project manager (or equivalent) instead of the dev, unless their whole dev model is just to slap it out there and fix what they need (which is a common, though sloppy practice).



Inferno: almost as fun as chewing used medical syringes.

killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-05-23 21:04:19 UTC
the other day i was repairing a module in space with paste, i had to cancel the repair to use the module

when i tried to activate said module i was told it was still being repaired quick fix was to jump through the nearest gate

never happened before latest patch

coincidence?

:)
ISquishWorms
#88 - 2012-05-23 21:14:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ISquishWorms
I was always taught : Tinker first drink after :)

If you know that you (CCP) have been playing with some code would it not be a good idea to test the results/side effects of playing with that part of the code prior to release? Fair enough we can help test on Sisi etc but what you (CCP) have to remember is we are quite often testing blind unless we know which particular parts of the code have been messed with and even then we are more in the dark than you guys as you will know the structure of the code itself and how that can impact on other parts of the client. So knowing what code has been changed you (CCP) would be in a better position to test the outcome and results than your everyday user although I accept at times users do find and come across situations not even considered by programmers.

Anyway just my 1 isk worth.

‘No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh’.
Zleon Leigh
#89 - 2012-05-23 21:40:00 UTC
Did I overlook this "fix" in the release notes??

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#90 - 2012-05-23 22:51:54 UTC
Alison McCarty wrote:

Why are you guys always playing around with something you have no idea about ? you have some crazy Code in front of you and have no idea what it does. Just DO NOT touch it. Let anyone who have a clue do the Job and then after some testing you make an entry in the patch notes and everything is fine. Project Managment, Testing and Qualitiy Managment anyone ?



LOL, please never attempt to get a job in programming.
Keine Kamishira
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-05-24 00:43:59 UTC
Despite reports of it being fixed, I had full armor with 1 rep'er active (no shield), and no damage at all to the hull of my Myrmidon, didn't overheat anything, yet every single module slot received 1 HP of damage in my last mission for no apparent reason. I was being shot by missiles, but obviously I cant fire any myself. I mean I understand if I am taking hits to the hull that some of that damage be spread to modules, and I can even potentially see high-slot turret/launcher spot maybe taking one randomly ever now and again if there is no shield (i mean it makes sense in a away as they 'stick out' from the ship... although it would then render armor tanking basically a useless means of survival in long engagements ... but a capacitor recharger, while full armor? But to get more damage to my ship than the mission's payout because of faulty coding really is annoying.
AkaiDruiD II
The Ghost of Creuss
#92 - 2012-05-24 01:20:49 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
AkaiDruiD II wrote:
Same here, mods and rigs dmged. This is one buggy update, I'm rly confused about what the update was for now O_o
Useless inventory boxes, added lag for missle smoke trails, which is ridiculous, cause there would be no smoke trails in the void of space. WTF is goin on there over at ccp?

If your trying to win an award for "Worst update ever released by a software company", I think u may have won it with this P O S


no.. 90% of the players havent quit... I think that award would go to NGE or CU
Compared to THAT this is a non issue

OR the Boot.ini issue

Well I dunno, there was a Japanese (I think) MMO company that deleted all the game data during a downtime and didnt have any backups, so they effective lost the entire game. I dont think it gets worse than THAT

AkaiDruiD II wrote:
I'd ask about the resculpting option, cause I don't seem to have it. But, I'm assuming this, too, is another bug.
I doubt I've found half of the bugs that this update is likely to have, because I've been mostly docked the whole time. I've gone out to do an L4, that took twice as long to finish due to the lag created by missle "trails"(in the vacuum of space O_o), and the inability to loot wrecks now with this new crappy inventory box setup.
And yes I've disabled and tried the 'no missle trail' option, lag is gone but apparently so is the missle, it apparently is fired and does dmg, but seems to travel in another dimension because its not visible at all :P lol


Sorry but they shouldnt have to not update the game cause your computer sucks.
Like that one update that made it so a certain % of the game couldnt play anymore.

Get a better PC

And dude, I have a PC I bought on the cheap (less than $400) like 4 years ago.... and I dont have the issue youre talking about
ATI Radeon 4650 lol my **** is olllld

edit: fixed thanks to dev's explanation


Stop trolling idiot...u clearly have no fuk!n idea what ur talking about
╭∩╮(◣_◢)╭∩╮
AkaiDruiD II
The Ghost of Creuss
#93 - 2012-05-24 01:23:06 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
AkaiDruiD II wrote:
Same here, mods and rigs dmged. This is one buggy update, I'm rly confused about what the update was for now O_o
Useless inventory boxes, added lag for missle smoke trails, which is ridiculous, cause there would be no smoke trails in the void of space. WTF is goin on there over at ccp?

If your trying to win an award for "Worst update ever released by a software company", I think u may have won it with this P O S


Smoke is essentially particles of matter and gases.. what about that wouldn't be visible in space? Besides, I watched the Falcon9 launch last night and there was definitely smoke trails of a sort coming off the booster when the were achieving orbit before deploying the solar panels and heading off to the International Space station.

There are many hundreds, likely thousands, of clips of engine burns in actual space, and you can see that they don't, in fact, leave visually-detectable trails in space. Any particulate dense enough to leave a visible trail at missile speeds in space basically means your missile's engines are full of non-performing particulate matter*, and have been designed by drunken monkeys.


*Read: Waste of mass, adding expense and lowering performance.


Our modules damage themselves by firing them and you think they werent made by alcoholic monkeys?

AkaiDruiD II wrote:
The evidence is clear; with the recent degrade of updates and the ancient, Earthly thinking. The developers and coders at ccp are either;
1. Extremly old and have yet to discover a lightbulb.
or
2. Extremly young and not out of diapers yet.
;P


Jeez, this guys tears are like an energy drink


lol ur a troll and lame. What's a matter? The dog won't play wit u?
╭∩╮(◣_◢)╭∩╮
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-05-24 05:52:51 UTC
Are rigs supposed to be included in this? All of my mods have 2.5% damage as well as the rigs.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#95 - 2012-05-29 16:22:29 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


Our modules damage themselves by firing them and you think they werent made by alcoholic monkeys?

Fair point.
Cool

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#96 - 2012-05-29 16:28:35 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
I have had modules damaged when I escaped a few fights with like 1-2% hull left.

Yeah, I've seen it too, in 'skin-of-my-teeth' escpaes, and it makes perfect sense. Once your armor is breached. Or even seriously compromised.

But when you're shileds are still robustly solid? Nuh-uh.


Anyway, I'm confident it's been fixed. But still am disturbed that tinkered code was allowed to roll live without testing. Back when *i* did software development (not all THAT long ago), that was a 'fired day before yesterday' offense.


That make so much sense, seeing as eve runs my life support machines here.

Har har.

When you roll inadequately tested, you have NO idea what you may have broken, or how badly. Seeing as CCP's life support *does* ride on those servers, I'd still expect a fairly serious consequence for sloppy work. Especially when there was no driving pressure to roll live.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Spy 21
Doomheim
#97 - 2012-05-29 17:25:13 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
This is likely my fault, I've been tinkering around with the code that applies the damage (I know scary ****) and as a result this might have changed. There has always been a feature where damage is supposed to leak to the modules but it might very well be that we start leaking a bit too early now.

What ships were you guys flying and did you take a lot of hull damage?

nvm some of you said only slight shield damage. I'll take a look tomorrow morning.


For some reason, I think this is the coolest forum post I have ever read.

S

Obfuscation for the WIN on page 3...