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I really Know why Eve don't get more Players....
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Kalpel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-05-23 22:01:33 UTC
Allyxy wrote:
I think I’m going to express now a very controversial opinion that will be prolly fought especially by veteran eve players.

However I feel I have to talk. Shocked

It seems that there is a “mantra” in eve that cannot be discussed because, for many players, it’is the fundamental reason why they play Eve… at the same time I think this is exactly the same reason why Eve is a relatively “Niche” game that, in it’s current format, cannot really aspire to a larger audience of players.

Before coming to the point, I’ve to say that I’ve been myself a game developer and now CEO of an IT firm, I also played a lot of games online and offline for many years, including many of the today online best-of-breed games and a core eve player since more than two years now running multiple accounts.

So, In my modest opinion, the MAIN big point why EVE, in its current form, is destined to remain a “core ppl game” with a relatively small number of players is this:

“PVP”

Wow PVP!!!!

Yes, this is the main reason why many of us like this game so much and this is exactly why much more ppl don’t like it.
It’s easily to check with relatives and friends the main problems they encounter when they get into the game, we all know about learning curve, scarce tutorial, cold interface, complex actions etc… however if you dig deeper, while some like to try pvp sooner or later, many more are completely scared by it, frustrated if they try it and, most important, they don’t want to care about competition!

Yes, think about it without prejudice: compared to the number of competitive ppl that like games like EVE today, many more prefer cooperative game environment.

Don’t tell me that EVE is cooperative…. I know it is, but most of the cooperation is always open to PVP and you have to plan all you work on the game, you corp, your alliance etc… around PVP.

A simplistic example: I met many many ppl that would love to join fleet where they cannot kill each other nor be attacked by other players etc… but just focus con carebearing things like exploration, plexing, mining etc…
Beware, I’m not saying remove PVP from EVE!

What I’m saying is that if we would like to have double players, or triple or ten times what we have today, EVE shall implement places where non-competitive, non-aggressive, friendly players can simply enjoy the fly in space and the sandbox universe (OBV Empire today is not the answer, way too much PVP takes place there).
Most non-pvp ppl don’t really want to care about win something against other players, but just fix their own simple targets and try to make those with some friends or even alone.

Someone could argue: do we really want 10 times more players in eve? Or 10 times more carebears?
My answer would be YESSSSS!!!! All life long!

At least three very good reasons:
1. We can finally have some (or some more) RL friends playing the game we love with us!
2. CCP will have 10 time more real life ISKS to provide us a much better game, with faster implementation and a bigger universe
3. We will have a bigger market, more options, more isks and overall more fun

To finish this long and probably boring issue, something for CCP:
Every time you say, advertise, write or in any other way put out sentences like “more shooting in face, more player wars etc…” while you push up the core-players for sure, you LOSE MANY MANY more potential players!

I had to say the above for the passion I have toward EVE, don’t shoot me now but if you want to I’m ready Bear

Allyxy
Lol




Too long, didn't read

You failed to target nothing! ≡v≡ online ... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Ryoken McKeon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-05-23 22:06:14 UTC
Savage Angel wrote:
Sir John Halsey wrote:


Probably doesn't matter but those two weeks will let the player learn a thing or two about the game before they become griefer's targets :)

As i said, is CCPs fault for implementing Concord and give players that sense of security in high sec which actually doesn't exists the second you have something valuable on your ship :P


That is a huge over statement. I have been ganked in Hisec exactly once with two accounts - lost a retriever. I have shipped around 100M at a time in an Itty, sometimes more, and have mined, missioned, explored, ice mined, and played with Sim Planet. To stay safe is pretty simple - don't rise to bait and don't ship a huge value of stuff all at once.

Most newbies die from reacting to the can flipper or stick their nose into low sec or a WH. All of which has mommy telling them not to when they do it. Or maybe they ignore the warning when taking shiny stuff from a can marked "Free Stuff" (the poetic justice there is just too much).

I have never encountered a roving gang of vets out to blow up newbs at all costs. Kill Hulks? Sure. A hulk is not a newb ship. Pirate a cargo worth a billion on the way through a known pirate system to Jita? Yep. But then what is a newb doing with a billion in stuff?

A bit of education and restraint in hisec and it is quite a safe area.


So this. I've been playing for six years. I have never died in high sec to anyone who wasn't a war target or CONCORD NPC.
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-05-23 22:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian
Devious Relation wrote:

I'm not sure if CCP want to stay with its current loyal fanbase, which will overtime dwindle, or take a risk and maybe develop the game for the masses, and let a few hardcore shinkickers maybe suck it and see ^^


Well, we saw the result when this kind of plan was unveiled before time last year.

It must be hard for CCP to decide. On the one hand, the loyal fanbase is pretty solid, and seems to form the basis of a game that's gradually growing.

On the other hand, as both businesspeople and creative people, they must be itching to move on to newer and shinier things, but at the same time they need to finance that.

One possibility might be that EVE could be PvE-ified, just ditch the old diehards and try to attract a new audience of PvE-oriented players. But that's incredibly risky. It looks like that was their general idea prior to last year, move onto the vampire game, use reliable old EVE as a milk cow by attracting more of a PvE crowd, and screw the old guard (I mean let's face it, they're nothing but trouble anyway Big smile ). But it didn't work out like that. (I doubt it would have worked out even if this game plan hadn't been leaked, in fact I think it might have been a lot worse if their true intentions were revealed further down the line - whoever leaked that stuff actually did them a huge favour by bringing them down to reality at a fairly early stage of what could have been, I think, absolutely disastrous if fully developed.)

Basically, it looks like CCP have had to swallow it and resign themselves to working with what they've got - a niche game with a dwindling bunch of cantankerous nerds, and a whole bunch of new players who seem to want to turn the game into a mere PvP arena. They have to hold the line against the latter lot somehow, and keep the game true to the virtual world concept, otherwise the old guard will leave in droves. At the same time they can't turn the game into a carebear heaven hit either, because the presence of both the old guard and the pure PvP nuts is a toxic environment for the kind of carebear who would normally roll on a PvE server.

But meh, things are tough all round these days. CCP are still in a better position than most developers - and let's be honest, they're doing a better job than most developers too, even though it's never good enough for their highly critical audience.
Twulf
Thunder Clap Industry
#84 - 2012-05-23 22:09:06 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
yes, let's take eve and turn into the lowest common denominator prolefeed to appease subhuman mongrels like yourself


Sorry EvE is already the lowest common denominator for subhuman mongrels. That is why EvE is a niche game, PvPers that want to pretend they are good at PVP play EvE.
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2012-05-23 22:22:57 UTC
Terrible Idea OP. Opens the way for massive market manipulations via invincible production vs production that has risk.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#86 - 2012-05-23 22:46:52 UTC
Allyxy wrote:

What I’m saying is that if we would like to have double players, or triple or ten times what we have today, EVE shall implement places where non-competitive, non-aggressive, friendly players can simply enjoy the fly in space and the sandbox universe (OBV Empire today is not the answer, way too much PVP takes place there).
Most non-pvp ppl don’t really want to care about win something against other players, but just fix their own simple targets and try to make those with some friends or even alone.


SISI has everything you're asking for.

Non-Competitive, Non-Agressive. If you don't care about winning against someone, your wallet shouldn't matter. So there you go. We already have what you want, but nobody plays it because EvE isn't fun without negative interactions between players.

You're trying to back your way into a SISI that's connected to the TQ universe, and that's a terrible idea. It will break the economy.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#87 - 2012-05-23 22:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
It's nice to see some people still believe CCP is capable to deliver and still ask for features. I've lost my faith a year ago.

Enjoy factional warfare as yearly expansion! (what's %% of players actually involved - 1 or 2?)
Dearthair
Goibhniu Industries
#88 - 2012-05-23 22:58:16 UTC
One issue with having any "PvP free" zones is that there isn't really anything you do in eve that doesn't begin or end with competition with another player to one degree or another. Even mission runners compete on the market when they cash in LP.

Obviously, the miner that just dumps his ore or minerals to buy orders at the closest market hub isn't thinking about competing with another player, but he has just potentially lowered the maximum buy price for the next miner who brings his goods to market. Honestly, if you are a miner, you should be glad when any miner that isn't you or your corp/alliance gets ganked. His loss is your gain. Same with a mission runner who dies, because he is producing less LP, meaning your LP with be worth just that tiny bit more.

Even if you don't actually engage in shooting other player's ships, everyone in EvE's attitude really ought to be "Not blue let it die". Come to think of it, I'm claiming that as the new mantra for players who get the competitive nature of EvE but who aren't engaged in ship to ship PvP. NBLID FTW!

NBLID (Not Blue Let It Die), the new motto for miners, manufacturers, and retailers everywhere.
Not Amused Responsible
Doomheim
#89 - 2012-05-23 23:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Not Amused Responsible
Allyxy wrote:
I think I’m going to express now a very controversial opinion that will be prolly fought especially by veteran eve players.

However I feel I have to talk. Shocked

It seems that there is a “mantra” in eve that cannot be discussed because, for many players, it’is the fundamental reason why they play Eve… at the same time I think this is exactly the same reason why Eve is a relatively “Niche” game that, in it’s current format, cannot really aspire to a larger audience of players.

Before coming to the point, I’ve to say that I’ve been myself a game developer and now CEO of an IT firm, I also played a lot of games online and offline for many years, including many of the today online best-of-breed games and a core eve player since more than two years now running multiple accounts.

So, In my modest opinion, the MAIN big point why EVE, in its current form, is destined to remain a “core ppl game” with a relatively small number of players is this:

“PVP”

Wow PVP!!!!

Yes, this is the main reason why many of us like this game so much and this is exactly why much more ppl don’t like it.
It’s easily to check with relatives and friends the main problems they encounter when they get into the game, we all know about learning curve, scarce tutorial, cold interface, complex actions etc… however if you dig deeper, while some like to try pvp sooner or later, many more are completely scared by it, frustrated if they try it and, most important, they don’t want to care about competition!

Yes, think about it without prejudice: compared to the number of competitive ppl that like games like EVE today, many more prefer cooperative game environment.

Don’t tell me that EVE is cooperative…. I know it is, but most of the cooperation is always open to PVP and you have to plan all you work on the game, you corp, your alliance etc… around PVP.

A simplistic example: I met many many ppl that would love to join fleet where they cannot kill each other nor be attacked by other players etc… but just focus con carebearing things like exploration, plexing, mining etc…
Beware, I’m not saying remove PVP from EVE!

What I’m saying is that if we would like to have double players, or triple or ten times what we have today, EVE shall implement places where non-competitive, non-aggressive, friendly players can simply enjoy the fly in space and the sandbox universe (OBV Empire today is not the answer, way too much PVP takes place there).
Most non-pvp ppl don’t really want to care about win something against other players, but just fix their own simple targets and try to make those with some friends or even alone.

Someone could argue: do we really want 10 times more players in eve? Or 10 times more carebears?
My answer would be YESSSSS!!!! All life long!

At least three very good reasons:
1. We can finally have some (or some more) RL friends playing the game we love with us!
2. CCP will have 10 time more real life ISKS to provide us a much better game, with faster implementation and a bigger universe
3. We will have a bigger market, more options, more isks and overall more fun

To finish this long and probably boring issue, something for CCP:
Every time you say, advertise, write or in any other way put out sentences like “more shooting in face, more player wars etc…” while you push up the core-players for sure, you LOSE MANY MANY more potential players!

I had to say the above for the passion I have toward EVE, don’t shoot me now but if you want to I’m ready Bear

Allyxy
Lol



It’s good that you voiced your opinion, this game is riddled with disease, with no easy cure, most can’t read correctly, let alone secure employment at McDonald’s, so direct your comments at CCP, through other players, maybe CCP will read your post, but I’m sure they’ll just dismiss it, players won’t understand it and enjoy trolling your post, but in the end, F*** them, they’re not worth it.
CCP want instant ISK! Pvp and War provides it, Plex is what they need, live now pay later, but sometimes their ideas and concepts seem strange, but between the lines plans are being made, make what you will of it, there is a solution but only you can use it.
Let the rest take care of themselves.

SIMPLE SOLUTION (NON-READERS)F***Hello kitty in the arse!!!! Ha ha ha Gank and Spank baby Cool
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-05-23 23:02:40 UTC
Yeah, sure. More players good for company...as long as they don't "pay" with PLEX.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Remistor Callaway
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-05-23 23:11:02 UTC
to the OP, it would completly break the Eve market. No more blown ships = no demand for mineral = price drop = even less money for miners.

and what is the challenge in mining 100% safely. Oh yeah I mined during 2 weeks in my hulk, hauled everything safely. No can flippers, no problem, made 1bil easy and 0 fun doing it.

No modules and ships blown? No more need for production.

You just broke mining, trading and production careers in a single post my dear.

Events like Jita Burn and Hulkaggedon which make Eve totally awesome could not exist.


Also to make PvE more secure I propose to change the rats damage to 0. carebears will not lose ships anymore.


Your idea may attract some new players but it will totally **** off the actual players and break actual game mechanics. So no.
Remistor Callaway
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-05-23 23:15:10 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
Yeah, sure. More players good for company...as long as they don't "pay" with PLEX.


Not really, players that pay with plex actually "worth more" to CCP than player who pay a regular sub.

A plex can only be bought from CCP for 17.50$. a regular sub 15$.

So the guy who originally bought a plex paid his regular sub(15) + his plex(17.50) that he will sell to another player for ISK. So total CCP profit for 1 regular sub + 1 plex sub is 32.50$

On the other and, 2 players that pay a regular sub: 15x2= 30.

So believe me, CCP is really happy to see people pay their sub with a plex ;)
Hrothgar Nilsson
#93 - 2012-05-23 23:24:45 UTC
gobbybobby wrote:
[quote=Christopher AET]alot of MMOs have gone FTP. Would eve work with a FTP model tho, thats the question.


dust is FTP so we will wait and see.


I know alot of my RL freinds would try eve if it went Free to play, the sub price puts people off.



Plex= someone else have paid for your game time, which in my eyes is not free!!!

If EVE were FTP, people would be 10- and 20-boxing. It's what happened with Shadowbane after it went FTP.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#94 - 2012-05-23 23:27:50 UTC
Responding to OP...

This has been tried and failed.

In a perfect world it could work, but in the real world what makes PvP and living in wh/low/null "risky" is basically:
a) Loss of wealth (ships, structures, etc)
b) Loss of pride (Kill Mails)

Therefore a fundamental design tool to control risk is to adjust wealth.

Which becomes impossible when you have players outside the PvP area farming wealth 12 or 11 months of the year Pirate

Eventually PvP becomes what it is now, players who can afford 100x the ship they are flying blowing up new players who cannot replace the ship they are in. Throw in PLEX so the new players can use $$ to replace their ships and you have the insanity that is EVE:

Farm new players for $$ (CCP) and kills (Vets) so that the new players pay everyones subs via PLEX.


The bottom line is:

The more carebears there are the less each bear can be allowed to earn to maintain balance in the universe and the PLEX market.

I'm an American, English is my second language...
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-05-23 23:37:57 UTC
What about people on trials are in their own small "learning" area, and they can only leave. nobody can enter. Additionally you can only leave with the ship you're in and the isk in your wallet, no assets in cargo space.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Kyle Yanowski
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#96 - 2012-05-23 23:40:51 UTC
Dethbringer1 wrote:
Kyle Yanowski wrote:
Dethbringer1 wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Dethbringer1 wrote:
EVE is truely a PVE game NOT a PVP game! Why else do I have to kill 4,000 battleships to replace my tengu???? True PVP games do not make you work for a week to die once. Anyone who thinks this is a PVP based game is a moron!!! Yeah my character has 50m sp. Lets go gank some miners and noob mission runner corps.... This game is about PVE and Griefing Primarily... everything else is secondary.... As long as you have a game where someone with 6 years of sp can freely kill players with 1 month of sp.... you will have a hard time recruiting new players... Oh wait they can't freely kill. They have to pay 2m first... ROTFLMFAO. I make that in 20 secs! A noob takes a week to make that lol... Seriously. I know nothing about programming but let me throw out a few suggestions. How bout making a character with 1m sp immune to players with 50m sp.... how bout making a sp system like they had in Runescape. The farther you go into low sec the bigger the sp difference can be... There is no love for noobs in eve so I think this games days are truely numbered.

You could kill 10 battleships to replace 20 ships, you know. 20 ships that can still kill stuff (first PvP kill of that person's). Screw Tengus.

You are an idiot and a buffoon who does not know what PvP means or get that Eve is a sandbox. Stop talking.

@OP: Pulling Eve's focus away from PvP would kill player interaction based on opposition, which is a core tenet of Eve. Doing that would pull it closer to being in direct competition with WoW, which it just cannot stand up to in polish and PvE. It may garner more newbies for a bit, but other games that are made for the niche it is invading would pass it, and it would lose all of its old players -- likely resulting in its death. Eve is fine where it is now.


What the hell would i want to fly a 20k frig when I can fly bs's and stategic cruisers.. anything you can kill with a frig is just plain boring as hell.


You've never heard of RvB. Or FW? Or just browsed the killboards? Frigs can kill a lot.

yeah i know. you can kill a bs with a frig.. you can also mine with a iteron...... whats the point besides being bored to death?


Bored is in a lumbering BS. Frigate roams? Really?

Host of the High Drag Eve Online Podcast ( http://highdrag.wordpress.com). Director of Aideron Robotics.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#97 - 2012-05-23 23:41:40 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
What about people on trials are in their own small "learning" area, and they can only leave. nobody can enter. Additionally you can only leave with the ship you're in and the isk in your wallet, no assets in cargo space.

That gives people the wrong idea of how Eve works. Newbies are already safe from ganking and harassment in starter systems. That is enough.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Rapcore2
Freelancer Union
Unaffiliated
#98 - 2012-05-24 00:00:42 UTC
Yeah, but i thought that EVE is all about the killmails. o:O
Tech3ZH
Doomheim
#99 - 2012-05-24 00:05:51 UTC
As many times as people have said I should be playing hellokitty I should check it out...
7i7i
Providence Wholesalers
#100 - 2012-05-24 01:04:22 UTC
Kalpel wrote:


Too long, didn't read


There really should be a w4nker button next to the like post button.