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CSM7 Summit Topic: Null Sec

First post
Author
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-05-23 01:47:21 UTC
There are already 2000+ wormholes systems for those that want nerfed local. Your wish has already been granted, so go probe down a wormhole, enjoy some small gang fights, and get hilariously wealthy off gas clouds and Sleeper loot. Also, no blobs, supercap or otherwise, no jump bridges/drives, and no sov grinding.

Seriously, what you are asking for already exists, and makes up a third of the systems in the Eve universe.


Removing local, jump bridges and jump drives will not improve nullsec. If you think it is empty now, implement those ideas and watch as sov nullsec becomes completely depopulated. No one is going to pay sov taxes for space that has less benefits than npc nullsec or w-space.

Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#62 - 2012-05-23 02:29:36 UTC
Xorth Adimus wrote:


0.0 income
The problem is not just were moon types are spread, its the whole concept of top down alliance funding and sov.

Income should come from the grass roots and activity.
- 'Empire management' tools don't exist today.
- Alliance and corp treaty renting/ tribute management doesn't exist.
- Alliance taxation doesn't exist.
....



I want to come at this from a different angle.

"Income should come from the grass roots and activity." Yes, but lets not give them the tools to automatically tax those grass root activities. I have floated the idea before to remove the alliance holding corp, and replace it with a true treaty system, but that's never going to happen. I think though if you do force alliance income to come from grass root activities (and SOV ownership) that without automatic in game tools to manage those sources of income, we would finally get back to some corp on corp intrigue. At least for my 2isk I think part of the stagnation of 0.0 is the tendency for people to now have alliance identities, and not so much for the corp they are in.

I would like to see more chances/opportunities for corps to backstab/cheat/fight/get jealous of and hate each other while moving the focus away from alliances. Of course they still will exist (I am NOT trying to change that), but I don't think empire management should be made easier. A bit of the opposite actually, lets give more power to the corps.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2012-05-23 03:02:25 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Xorv wrote:
It's called Local Chat, and the automatic Intel and consequential safety it provides


This is completely untrue and saying that local is anything more than a part of a greater intel apparatus is an unfounded argument. Changing local without balancing other aspects of the game would break the game in favor of one niche playstyle which would become immensely overpowered.



No not really at all, local should be removed in 0.0. I agree with LZ it's free intel and completely misplaced in the lawless tough place called 0.0 (although it's actually a very safe place to be and very warm and cuddly because of things like "local")


Read: "I want to camp cyno beacons without risk of detection"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Serina Tsukaya
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#64 - 2012-05-23 10:10:36 UTC
People dislike alliances for doing things that they themselves would do in a heartbeat given the opportunity. Players in high do market manipulation and attempt to control the prices of certain items, but when big alliances do the same, they're hated for it. Removing moon goo and replacing it with ring mining would completely screw up the logical hierarchy of an alliance. Part of the reason large alliances can exist at all is the profit they make from moon goo, which is a large contribution to the ship replacement program most alliances have.

Tech moons are rare and valuable.
Valuable things creates envy in those that don't have it.
Envy and the wish to obtain tech creates conflict.
Eve is conflict.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#65 - 2012-05-23 17:06:13 UTC
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
...

But if Moongoo is so pivotal in the operation of the average alliance, then having all of it on the hands of but a few stifles conflict as strong quickly becomes untouchable due to the infini-ISK of goo.

Having a feudal system like we have in Eve is perfectly fine, but it should have been allowed to develop on its own and not appear out of nowhere due to mechanics.

Quarter to one half of goo to PI with upgrades available through sovereignty.
Quarter of goo to exploration and other DED spaces with existing/revised upgrades available through sovereignty.
Quarter to one half of Goo remain on moons.

Conquering a system upgraded for one or the other has a high'ish chance of "leaving behind" some of the upgrade. Moons will still be the premiere ISK faucet due to the passive nature of it but with more of it around, made available by playing the game (emptying a hangar/silo once a week is not playing the game Big smile), more entities get to set up replacement programs thus not only driving but creating conflict (weapons tend to be used when acquired in Eve).
Spread the goo around (PI+Moons) and fill gaps with whopping big mining/industrial potential and the drive is reinforced even further plus you open the door for hubs and manufacturing powerhouses to develop in null .. rather than most industry being in high-sec with crap ferried back and forth.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-05-23 19:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
believe it or not large sovholding empires existed before technetium was buffed
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-05-23 19:30:13 UTC
Filthy goon-sponsored propaganda.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Signal11th
#68 - 2012-05-23 23:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Richard Desturned wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Xorv wrote:
It's called Local Chat, and the automatic Intel and consequential safety it provides


This is completely untrue and saying that local is anything more than a part of a greater intel apparatus is an unfounded argument. Changing local without balancing other aspects of the game would break the game in favor of one niche playstyle which would become immensely overpowered.



No not really at all, local should be removed in 0.0. I agree with LZ it's free intel and completely misplaced in the lawless tough place called 0.0 (although it's actually a very safe place to be and very warm and cuddly because of things like "local")


Read: "I want to camp cyno beacons without risk of detection"



and your point being? God you goons are such pussies, you always are professing to save eve from becoming kitty online but all your actions to this point are creating the exact thing which you profess to hate. obviously i'm only responding to the dangleberry gsf leadership might have differing views.

i roam mate i don't camp if you didn't have everyone blue you could actually roam yourselves but as it probably takes you 20 jumps in any direction to find a neut you only options are to camp or bridge.

You know in nearly three years of living in 0.0 i've only ever seen 4 (yes it's that exact) Goon roams into whatever region i've been living! aNd considering I've pretty much been at war with you lot for that period I find it quite sad.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-05-23 23:41:11 UTC
the concept that 0.0 ratters will put up with risks far beyond those of wormholes for l4 mission +30% income is an idea dearly treasured by the naiive
Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-05-23 23:52:30 UTC
lol raidenDOT is mad o7o7
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-05-23 23:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
the concept that 0.0 ratters will put up with risks far beyond those of wormholes for l4 mission +30% income is an idea dearly treasured by the naiive

Nonsense. Everyone knows that what needs to happen is that local needs to just disappear, JBs need to go away, and cynos/jumpdrives must go away as well. And suddenly, eve will become ~fun~ and ~awesome~ again.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-05-24 00:03:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Brisco County
Anomalies already make me want to staple my **** to a beehive. Pretty sure I wouldn't do them if I also had to mash the d-scan every 2 seconds. I would just grind out isk safely on my level 4 mission alt.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2012-05-24 03:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Here's a good idea:

Make "military sov" buildup (required for most sov-based advantages) based on multiple factors instead of just million-hp structures and time. Howabout TCU + Occupancy of system (read: activity) + Length of time owning system + Planetary ownership + Nu-Faction Warfare-style "combat metric" (defaulting to sov holder) = Total level of sov. In return, the cost for owning a system decreases drastically as level of ownership increases. Perhaps the exact EHP of stations would be effected by the strength of the hold on the system.

Power projection of expansive alliances is curbed since much of their space isn't used enough to unlock jump bridges, and alliances would deliberately choose not to take needless systems in order to streamline costs. AFKing in station has a serious penalty to it as two out of five of the claims to the system are lowered by not defending it. The DUST integration serves as a tiebreaker and a way of fomenting conflict with otherwise heavily advantaged alliances.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2012-05-24 03:46:25 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
You know in nearly three years of living in 0.0 i've only ever seen 4 (yes it's that exact) Goon roams into whatever region i've been living! aNd considering I've pretty much been at war with you lot for that period I find it quite sad.


yeah generally wulfpax are the losing side's strategy

hint: not ours

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2012-05-24 05:22:59 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

Nonsense. Everyone knows that what needs to happen is that local needs to just disappear, JBs need to go away, and cynos/jumpdrives must go away as well. And suddenly, eve will become ~fun~ and ~awesome~ again.


They're called wormholes, maybe you have heard of them.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-05-24 06:22:25 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
the concept that 0.0 ratters will put up with risks far beyond those of wormholes for l4 mission +30% income is an idea dearly treasured by the naiive

Nonsense. Everyone knows that what needs to happen is that local needs to just disappear, JBs need to go away, and cynos/jumpdrives must go away as well. And suddenly, eve will become ~fun~ and ~awesome~ again.

Remove everything that makes living in 0.0 even vaguely tolerable, surely a winning formula.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Frying Doom
#77 - 2012-05-24 07:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Remove everything that makes living in 0.0 even vaguely tolerable, surely a winning formula.

TBH even with the sarcasm your right. 0.0 should be hard lawless space, so you really shouldn't get advanced warning of incoming fleets from a cloaked alt in an adjoining system. Null should be more removed than a couple of jumps from jita in a JF. You should be more isolated out there. Local should die and jump drives more costly.

So in summary, as you null people always say. HTFU.

You live in Null space it should be lawless and hard.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-05-24 07:24:10 UTC
Tell us more about living hard, member of 'The Trade Guild'
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2012-05-24 07:30:39 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
You live in Null space it should be lawless and hard.


if you think living in nullsec is at all "effortless" you probably shouldn't talk about nullsec

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Frying Doom
#80 - 2012-05-24 07:41:19 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
You live in Null space it should be lawless and hard.


if you think living in nullsec is at all "effortless" you probably shouldn't talk about nullsec

Well its not exactly hard, Especially for the large alliances, Lo-sec is a lot more dangerous.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!